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Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Every other day, I drive a friends '03 Saturn L300 as we both go to the gym (long drive). She makes me drive because after an hour worth of traffic to get to her house where we meet, she prefers me to drive thereafter.

    That Saturn features a 3.0L V6, picked up from german unit Opel, and was used in the last Catera. It's quite torquey down low, and when it comes time to pass, the computer just shifts to the EXACT point where there's MASSIVE torque steer. And that's just 190TQ., I'm glad it doesn't have more. But it's an annoying feature to me at least, because I sometimes steer with my knee in my car, so with this one it's nearly impossible to do so. Plus I also have a bit of road rage, so when a car moves OUT of the way, I slam the gas in celebration of frustration :-)

    I drove an S80 T-6 for an extended time. In that vehicle it was a bit more controlled than this Saturn L300, therefore it wasn't that bad. But that will be rectified in the future. Already, an AWD S80 debuts this year, and depending how well it sells in comparison to it's FWD unit, will determine if they'll go AWD all the way.

    I like the AWD system of Volvo's, it's a Haldex system, which only really adds 140-150lbs. to the vehicle. Where most other AWD require double that amount, and then some.
  • hammyztshammyzts Posts: 9
    I completely agree with the statement that ANT made about Cadi moving upstream. They will find themselves swallowed up by the likes of the 3-series and even the clout that comes from owning a Jag. If Lincoln's next antagonist is going to be Buick then this is good news. Lincoln, IMO, is ahead of Buick. Buick has the Rendezvous, but Lincoln has the LS, and Futura-based sedans, which I think will be a stonger seller. As I see it right now, Buick has one product worth owning, and possibly a second if they build the "Bengal" concept. By this time, Lincoln should be debuting the next Continental, which is rumored to be paired up with a next-gen Mark series, based again, off the DEW98, and more specifically the Thunderbird, as Lincoln is poised to have a convertible. All in all, Fords return to car-based products will be a stong trump over Buick's Rendezvous and "Rainier".
      On the topic of the Futura, I see nothing but positives for Ford with this product, as long as they don't use that name.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    "Regardless. Ford is dying."

    Wall Street types have been saying that since 1980's. They are a global company and don't just sell to "faithful" people in the "flyover" states.

    Honda isn't in great shape. 60% of their sales are in the USA and they are "dying" (to coin a phrase) in Japan, their home market. Where they dropped to #3 after Nissan finally woke up.

    Anyway, this topic is Ford Futura, not "Buick vs. Lincoln"

    Those that say, "Camry and Accord will be new by 2005", so what? Ford is offering something different to the non-conformists, instead of the the "beige cookie cutter house" people in in their "beige cookie cutter cars".
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Mazda is also offering something to the non-conformist, with the 6. A spunky compact car (no low end torque with the 4 though), but I havent seen very many- is Mazda on target to meet sales expectations? It would seem that with 49xx sold in May, it might not be. (I can't imagine Mazda wanted this thing to sell fewer than 60,000 copies/year). That May sales figure is barely ahead of the 5 year old Galant, and behind the Passat.
     
    ~alpha
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The issue with the Mazda6 sales can be placed upon the person who allocated the I4=V6 models. He was recently fired for his inadequecies of being able to research what the market wanted. The previous allocation was 80%=I4 to 20%=V6. Customer's have wanted the V6 model more so, so that had to be changed to 40%=V6 models. The majority of the Mazda6' out there, are the I4 trim.

    Try researching some local Mazda dealer's that might have online inventories, and you might see there's hardly V6 models available. At least that's the issue where I'm at (Miami).

    The issue has been rectified, so sales should increase. But this isn't ment to be a high volume product. Although Mazda has been suprised at Europe, where Mazda6 sales have surged beyond their expectations.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Posts: 854
    Some say, "the Futura will be against the newer Camry by then"

    It's not going to just be a 2003 Mazda 6 with a Ford emblem on it. It will be an updated car on the current 6 platform.

    And don't think that the next gen Camry and Accord will be "clean slate" designs, after they spent tons of money on the current cars. Expect reskins, which won't be all that "super modern".
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Yes that's correct. The vehicle will be larger than the current Mazda6. The platform which is based on, can be easily stretched and widen, (minivans will come off this platform as well) therefore the vehicle will have an interior that will be competitive with vehicles AT that time, but wrapped in an efficient exterior package, that won't come close to Taurus' 199-200"inch length.

    The issue with the Taurus' packaging is it's too bulky on the exterior, for the interior dimensions it possesses. It's engineering from 1980's, therefore it's catching up, and no longer efficient.

    Look for the Futura to have a 187-191" exterior length, while having interior competitive dimensions, where it counts.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Posts: 776
    Just a comment - when is Ford going to dump the Duratec? Don't get me wrong, the engine served its purpose. My parents' 97 Sable Duratec V6 was very reliable for five years before it blew a connecting rod. Not the greatest record but... oh well. As far as I can tell, the engine hasn't really received much of an update after all of these years, turning a once-peppy engine into a almost-as-good-as-some-inline-4s powerplant. Everyone else is getting 240hp+ plus torque from their 6-bangers nowadays. By 2005 the bar could well be around 260hp.

    Ford "Futura" makes me think future, advanced, high-tech, modern. Best of class in some way direct related to the innards of the car. I will judge the Futura in large part based on what kind of oomph it gets, and I do hope that the first post's mention of the Duratec will in fact turn out to be the debut of a new Ford engine instead.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The Duratec, for what it is, offer's the most techonology per dollar in the 3.0L realm, as compared to the other Big 3 automaker's, GM is still using OHV pushrod's, and closest example would be the 3.0L found in the Saturn L300/VUE which costs thousands more. And even at that, GM will be replace that engine with 3.5L Honda sourced engines. While the 3.0L Duratec engine is available on a $17-18K (after discounts) Taurus.

    If you want more investment, then you have the Mazda6 version which Mazda has applied their own heads, and a few other modifications to bump it up to 220HP.

    Want even more, there's the 3.0L Duratec in the Lincoln LS V6, that contains VCT bumping it up to 232HP.

    Want a bit more... There's the X-Type's 3.0L making 227HP and S-type's 3.0L V-6 AJ version, contains 235HP, made available by their own tweaking.

    Let's not forget thru all this, that being more "sophisticated" can add cost such as premium fuel requirement, and that's not something the Taurus needs to do. Which is why the other versions (except Mazda6, Escape/Tribute) require Premium fuel.

    The Duratec engine family is here to stay, and will be further enhanced depending on the brand. But overall it'll be one of the 3 engine families worldwide, that Ford is sticking to. Over in europe, there's variations of this same engine, in 4 cylinder configurations. And we even have the Aston Martin's V-12 which is a pair of siamesed Duractec's 3.0L, displacing 5.9/6.0L.

    Or even so, there's the 2.5L V6 used in the Probe GT for many years, making 164HP, then later Cougar making 170HP, that same engine now used in the X-type 2.5L makes 194Hp because Jaguar applied their own tweaking to it.

    Considering it's vast use, configurations, etc. it's not a problematic engine in the least, and it's easy to take care of and manage.

    Now, as compared to other competitor's V6's such as Altima/Maxima, or even the new Solara's/RX330 3.3L, all those are made more powerful by increasing it's size.displacement. We can't really compare a 3.0L, with a 3.5L or 3.3L. And as seen by the prices on those vehicles, (the Altima for example) you must jump to $24-26K for the V6 version. Closest would be Accord's 3.0L which can make it's 240HP from it's VCT. That same route can be taken on the Mazda6, for it to attain 240HP or even 250HP if need but again, at what costs, considering the Accord 3.0L V6 can run anywhere from $24K-28K depending on trim level.

    Personally, I believe that engines at certain points can be maximized, but there after displacement must be implemented. For a 3.0L DOHC V6 I believe anything over 220HP is pushing it's limits. Mainly because the car must swing over 6000RPM to attain this power. It can be justified if the vehicle weighs up to 3200LBS, but anything north of 3200lbs. will require displacement, or run the engine into the redline

    One example is the X-Type's 3.0L AJ V6. It'll give you 227HP, but you must swing to a Honda like 6800RPM. Luckily it's a Jaguar and there's enough noise insulation to quell that tiring reving. This is an example where the engine would benefit by growing, but to do it intelligently it must be done without too much added weight. What would be the purpose of adding 30lbs. extra of weight, to pump a measly 10 more horses. Such horses can be attained in other ways more efficient ways.

    When the Futura debuts, the 3.0L Duratec II will be the optional engine. What makes it "Duractec II", various other methods implemented to make it more efficient and more powerful. Mazda6's Duratec V-6 is the first phase of "Duratec II".

    From this, will be born a 3.5L version of the Duratec called Cyclone. That engine will be implemented on the Freestyle/500/Montego and a bunch of other vehicle's.

    Ford might develop a higher performance version of the Futura, but not much detail has been spoken about that. There's 2 possible senario's, a 2.3L I-4 Turbocharged (Think Mazda6 MPS concept) making around 280HP or the 3.5L Cyclone V-6. Personally (just from my experience) they would be wiser to use the 2.3L I-4 considering it wouldn't add as much weight to the vehicle, as the 3.5L would.

    Already, the vehicle will debut with a 2.3L I-4, optional 3.0L V-6, and a Hybrid version of the 2.3L similarly used in the 2005 Escape Hybrid will eventually become available.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    You are one of the rudest, least considerate people in the world. In your earlier posts about Ford names, you say you can do a better job. Well, I like the idea of having all the cars start with the same letter. I like the names Freestyle and Freestar. I don't like 500 as it will be typed as numbers not as Five Hundred. I don't like Aurora better than Futura. Sometimes people have opinons different than yours. You will just have to accept that, regfootball. You can't just go around assuming everyone totally agrees with you. You made two posts saying the same thing while making fun of Ford names while a lot of people probably like these. You are a really sad person, regfootball. I'm glad I'm not you.
  • regfootballregfootball Posts: 2,166
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    whatever is all you have to say.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    conversation.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    You mean you don't know what it'll be named?

    I think it's waayyyyy too early for that topic to be started yet, those plans have not, and will not be thoroughly announced till the end of the year, beginning of next year, at one of the major auto shows.

    And the Futura twin might NOT be exactly a 4 door sedan, it's still being studied.
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    do u know the name or something? I think I have five good guesses on that conversation.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The name hasn't been finalized, there's a few being tested on consumer groups. And "starting with M" doesn't count, since it's obvious it'll start with an "M".
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    but don't u think some of my name guesses are possible?
  • libertycatlibertycat Posts: 593
    Volvo, Lincoln, Cadillac, Saab, Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti all make FWD cars. LOL!!!! See, Cadillac and Volvo aren't the only two.
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