Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

16869717374276

Comments

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    We have had a Jetta with tiptronic for about a month, so have had very limited experience with the "automanual". Our transmission also has a "sport mode" in addition to the normal "D" drive mode. I have only driven it a couple of times, but so far I would say that I am more likely to use the sport mode than the tiptronic. The sport mode tends to shift more like I would with a manual.

    I can think of a couple situations where the tiptronic might be useful or convenient. One being dowshifting on a long steep decline and the other being to downshift in advance (as I might do with a manual) when you are planning to pass on a 2 lane highway.

    Also with a 6-speed the automatic, it probably looks nicer having the tiptronic instead of P-R-N-D-5-4-3-2-1 on the transmission selector. What does Ford do about all those gears with the selector on their 6 speed auto?
  • jcat707jcat707 Posts: 168
    I agree that Ford most likely won't lose any sales over the lack of an automanual feature. The Camcords don't offer one and look how well those sell. I was just wondering why Ford doesn't offer them in more vehicles.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    I own a 2004 Mazda6 and I can't tell you how much I love my manu-matic. It has become such a love of mine that it is my ultimate drawback to the Fusion/Milan. The lack of that feature makes me look at other cars or just wait for the new Mazda6. I lived in Boston for some time, making a stick impratical. Traffic usually involved a 1 to 3 hour wait. The control that a manu-shift gives you and the extra excitment is really what makes it such a good option. It makes the car more than just an appliance like a Camry. I think Ford made a mistake by not including it. At least I can count on Mazda, the are in it for "the relentless pursuit of fun".
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Posts: 145
    Most domestically built autos use the same Air Bag supplier.
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Posts: 145
    Save yourself the pain of waiting for AWD on the Fusion. Go buy a Subaru Outback or Legacy right now and get Standard AWD, Standard Side Air Bags, Standard ABS, and Standard Side Curtain Air Bags. You can also get 250hp in a 3.0l or 250hp in a 2.5l Turbo. Not to mention you get a longer warranty.

    This is what is wrong with Ford and GM of late. They have slashed prices and content too much and are getting killed by everyone else who makes these safety items STANDARD. Does anyone else agree?
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Posts: 145
    BMW and Subaru have excellent "sport shift" automatics.
  • The manumatic issue will be a big deal to many buyers.

    For basically the same price, they could get a bigger Camry that (at least now) does not have a manumatic, the only way to justify a smaller car for the same price (and milege) is features, and sporty handling.

    The Fusion has style, it just needs the nav, xenon, and manumatic to match. Then the competition is in trouble.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Most domestically built autos use the same Air Bag supplier.

    Yep, and most domestically built autos have the same capacity restraints on side air bags and curtains. Gee, whiz...

    I think what I said is that supplier favors the companies that haven't beaten it up over the last nickel and dime on price, like GM and Ford do and have. The companies that treat it as a co-partner in the business (only relatively speaking) are getting first dibs on the limited supply. Imagine that. Companies would rather do business with someone who is at least not a royal pain to do business with. (I still think this will some day be the downfall of the world's largest retailer---who is notorious for beating up suppliers over cost reductions, and who is, correctly or not, largely attributed with the move of many suppliers' production plants from the USA to the Far East).

    How does any of this have to do with the Fusion? As has been pointed out, the Fusion's primary non-domestic name plate competitors, though priced slightly higher, come with many safety features that are extra cost--or not even available at all--on the Fusion.

    We haven't even taken into account that with larger volume and build simplicity, standard features end up costing less PER UNIT than they would to buyers who chose them as options.

    Separately, exalteddragon1, don't miss that you have inadvertantly (?) exhibited the attitude that causes the USA to miss out on many great small cars (like Ka and Mondeo). Many in this country DO think bigger is better than smaller and will not pay more for a smaller car than for a lesser equipped large car. This is part of why Contour didn't succeed.

    In the USA, companies have frequently avoided building smaller cars due to the attitude that small cars must have small prices and cost less than large cars...which results in fewer small cars being well equipped, and moving customers up to larger cars than they would otherwise buy (which does at least three things, one good for the auto companies, one probably a good thing for the customers, the other not so good for the customers and the Nation: the auto companies make more money, as to get automatic climate control, for example, customers have to buy a midsize or larger car; larger cars have better safety--just as a matter of physics--IF all other things are equal; but use more fuel and are harder to park and take up more space on the highways).
  • mschmalmschmal Posts: 1,757
    This guy is a little confused. Subaru formerly of Fuji Hevy Industires IS OWNED BY GM!

    Keep watching Subaru and you will see GM totally screw up another good car company. the Saabarus are only the first step you can be sure.

    Also, Subaru sales are WAY down this year and so is Honda.

    The only car company that is really doing well is Toyota.

    I will probably end up buying a Fusion...I mean I get the A-plan price. But would I rather have a Audi? DAMN RIGHT.

    Don't think that price dosen't matter. GM is kicking butt through June with the "pay what we pay" compaign and its mostly a gimick. (cheaper price is exchanged for less rebates.)

    Think of all those people throwing down their hard-earned dough for Malibus and G6s all because they falsely believe they are getting a lower price.

    Damn right lower price will get some people to consider a Fusion who otherwise wouldn't look at a Ford. Just the way Hyundai's 10 year warranty got some people to consider a Hyundai who otherwise would not have.

    Mark
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,600
    This guy is a little confused. Subaru formerly of Fuji Hevy Industires IS OWNED BY GM!

    Umm - Fuji Heavy Industries (FHI) is 20% owned by GM. Subaru is wholly owned by FHI. Get those facts straight.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Oh man, thank God you didnt say that on one of the Subaru forums.

    ~alpha
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Posts: 145
    Um, you should check your facts. Fuji Heavy Industries OWNS Subaru. GM only has a 20% share of stock, a long way from controlling ownership.

    Subaru posted record sales in April with the other months close to breaking records. GM will not tell Subaru what to do. Subaru is selling well in spite of some of the lowest rebates, which as of right now the biggest rebates are $1500. Some models are not rebated at all and still selling well.

    They build a product that is good value and fun to drive along with reliable and people are still buying them. How well would GM and Ford do if their highest rebate was $1500? Not well I think.
  • mayberryguymayberryguy Posts: 145
    I would like to see Juice get wind of that post...lol
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    "BMW and Subaru have excellent "sport shift" automatics."

    I liked Toyota's in the MR2 as well. Ford doesn't seem to do them, though. Not really that I care, but it would be an interesting feature. Audi's DSG is really good. I've heard mixed about BMW's SMG though. I know people who love it, and people who think it's worse than I-Drive :P

    I have a very positive outlook for Subaru. They are spreading out to different markets like crossovers and whatnot. Also, Subaru runs a plant in my hometown that pretty much keeps the place running. Well, that and Purdue University.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    GM owns 20% of FHI, but they don't own the other 80%. GM has one single member on the FHI board. It's not a majority by a long shot.

    Proof of their independence came when they rejected using a GM platform for the Tribeca, note it has a boxer engine and is a pure Subaru design. Saab sort of got stuck with the leftovers - yet another TrailBlazer clone and a warmed over WRX.

    Subaru sales are not down at all, they are in fact up about 5% from last year, which by the way was a record year, best ever. April 2005 was Subaru's best month ever.

    Fusion looks very promising and will be a big hit for Ford, a nice follow-up to the very successful Mustang launch. Now they should try to infuse some of that excitement in the Five Hundred.

    -juice
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    Ford sells more Mustangs than Subaru, well Subarus. Subaru is a niche car. Mustang too btw. But Fusion is not, it is just mainstream with some sporty flair.

    Who needs manumatics, it is waste of money and engineering resources, just another way to rip off customers. If you need better control and feeling go buy manual that is superior to any manumatic and is less prone to failure.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    a. I didn't know Subaru sold ANY Mustangs! :)

    b. It's easy to criticize manumatics and send people out to buy manual shifts when you don't frequently drive in bumper to bumper traffic jams for three hours at a time where the CHOICE NOT to shift gears is a near essential. There is a market for these things, probably a far larger market than for manuals, quite frankly...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    There is a market for these things, probably a far larger market than for manuals, quite frankly...

    That is just about certain, since the market for manual in the US is, I believe, less than 10% and probably half of those choose manual for purely economic reasons.

    Didn't Edmunds recently announce the coming end of the manual transmission when they tested the audi/vw DSG? :)
  • gogophers1gogophers1 Posts: 214
    Save yourself the pain of waiting for AWD on the Fusion. Go buy a Subaru Outback or Legacy right now and get Standard AWD, Standard Side Air Bags, Standard ABS, and Standard Side Curtain Air Bags. You can also get 250hp in a 3.0l or 250hp in a 2.5l Turbo. Not to mention you get a longer warranty.

    And while you're saving yourself the pain of waiting for AWD, cough up another $12K as a Subaru with a 6 or turbo pushes $30K.

    On a different note, what about those spy shots of the 2007 Accord? Hmmm... looks a lot like the 2005 Accord if you ask me. Even GM changes more than the tail lights on their mid-cycle refreshes.

    I think some folks here are having difficulty with the Fusion concept. It's meant to be an entry level midsizer. If you want NAV, AWD, curtain airbags, ESC, HID, TMX, seat coolers, mood lighting and dual rocket thrusters, you're missing the point. This isn't an entry level luxury car. It's a Ford. Expect style, good handling and affordability along with a handful of a la carte options to suit your individual needs. Check the boxes you need/want and leave the others empty.

    We've got some chronic complainers on this board and it's tiring. Why isn't this standard? Why isn't this optional? Blah, blah, blah... These are the same folks that go into Red Lobster and get all huffy because they feel their dining experience wasn't "five-star level."

    The problem with making everything standard is that you close the door on certain customers. Take the Sonata. It's quite a nice car and I was interested until I found out that in order to get the sunroof, I had to settle for a slushbox - brilliant thinking. Apparently sunshine and not shifting go together in Hyundai's mind. As do alloys and not shifting (it's common knowledge that folks who prefer shifting themselves hate alloy wheels... uh huh).

    Personally, I like Ford's idea of not tying expensive features together that are critical buy factors. Don't want to pay extra for side airbags? Fine. Don't want to be forced into an automatic if you want a sunroof? That's good too. Variety is the spice of life my friends. Just because you want to veg out behind the wheel doesn't mean all drivers should be forced into an automatron. And just because you feel that piloting a car without full perimeter airbags is akin to engaging in some type of Kamakazi mission doesn't mean everyone shares this belief.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    "The problem with making everything standard is that you close the door on certain customers. Take the Sonata. It's quite a nice car and I was interested until I found out that in order to get the sunroof, I had to settle for a slushbox - brilliant thinking. Apparently sunshine and not shifting go together in Hyundai's mind. As do alloys and not shifting (it's common knowledge that folks who prefer shifting themselves hate alloy wheels... uh huh)."

    Seems like a well calculated risk based on the fact that about <10% of new vehicles are sold with manual transmissions, and that percentage is probably lower for the Sonata line. Since its not a particularly sporting vehicle anyway, chances are those buying the 5M are probably doing so for reasons of perceived economy.

    Thank you for pointing out that the Fusion is a Ford. Correct me if Im wrong, but the Accord is a mere Honda, Camry a simple Toyota and yet both can be outfitted with many of the options you perceive as premium, and in some cases they're standard. As a frame of reference, I love Red Lobster, and havent ever had a bad experience there. :P

    I think the Fusion looks like a great entry. I dont think its smart for Ford to play a value card by simply showing prices with even attempting features parity. I also think that the freshened Accord and the new Camry (to debut in February) are going to continue to be tough competition in the midsize segment, as is the newly capable and enjoyable to drive Sonata. And of course, the 6 is due for freshening as well.

    With regards to your statement on safety: "And just because you feel that piloting a car without full perimeter airbags is akin to engaging in some type of Kamakazi mission doesn't mean everyone shares this belief" This is the family sedan segment, and safety sells. God knows that Ford trumpets safety ratings moreso than any brand this side of Volvo (which is Ford anyway). That said, for all their mention of safety, theres not much said about vehicles where the equipment isnt standard, such as on the Focus' or Escape's IIHS side impact without optional bags.

    my .02

    ~alpha

    PS- A base Legacy GT is $26.3K MSRP, you do bad math if the difference from base Fusion V6 (w/o AWD) to that figure is $12 grand.

    (FWIW, that Legacy doesnt have a moonroof or leather, BUT does have ABS, side curtains, AWD, multifunction trip computer, full power accesories, 17 inch alloys, heated front seats, electroluminescent gauges, 6 disc in dash CD, and dual zone auto climate control).
Sign In or Register to comment.