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Acura MDX 2007

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Comments

  • chavis10chavis10 Posts: 166
    Here's the problem: Acura needs a new tranny, period. As robert has stated, a vehicle that heavy cannot feel powerful with ratios chosen for economy. They need a short 1st-3rd and a tall 5th-6th in order to keep the same EPA figures and I still find it hard to believe that Acura is squeezing 275 lbs-ft out of 3.7l without direct injection. I understand that it has a high compression ratio but still... Toyota only gets 277 lbs-ft (SAE certified) out of their 3.5L with direct AND port injection, variable plenum as well as fully variable valve timing on all four cams. I realize VTEC has two lift profiles however it still seems optimistic. In their defense, Acura cars do seem to be pretty fast so perhaps they just need more experience with porker SUVs.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Excuse me? Acura/Honda didn't do ANYTHING by charitable choice. Their engines had been rated overly aggressivly and, under the new standards, HAD to be downgraded."

    Technically, that's not correct.

    The new SAE standards require that any NEW engines be rated using the new rules. Existing and old engines were grandfathered under the implementation of the regs. Most all other manufacturers elected not to retest their engines until they receive significant upgrades. Honda and Toyota chose to retest all their engines. That was voluntary.

    Having said that, I agree that they were messing with things prior to the rule changes.
  • cec33cec33 Posts: 2
    Interesting discussion on the gear ratios that could explain a lot.

    My first impression after driving the 07 was that it just seemed a little sluggish, don't get me wrong it's a sporty suv for its size, but perhaps I built it up too much after hearing all the performance claims from Acura, track tuned, etc. I got to drive the 07 pretty hard on the test drive so I had a good feel for it. Smoother than my wife's 03, although my butt dynometer certainly prefers my FX35 off the line every time.

    The 07 is a very nice vehicle and it should be sales winner just let the engine be free!
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "My first impression after driving the 07 was that it just seemed a little sluggish, don't get me wrong it's a sporty suv for its size, but perhaps I built it up too much after hearing all the performance claims from Acura, track tuned, etc."

    That's exactly Acura's probelm with the RL as far as I am concerned. The initial "hype" in Acura's marketing was all performance oriented. TV spots showed an RL winding through the Bavarian Alps while the narration touted the "300" horsepower engine and world class "super handling" all whell drive. It looked like the RL was going to send BMW's 5-series back to the drawing board.

    Well, the RL may be a very nice luxury car and technology showroom for the latest and greatest do-dads from Japan, but it is NOT, in any way shape or form, a serious performance sedan. The performance is ho-hum at best. It is a grossly overweight, bulky car which might beat a RWD 5-series in a rainstorm or snowstorm, but so would an MDX. "Super" handling? Compared to what, a Buick? And it's - oops only 290 hp - engine/transmission is only good for acceleration that barely matches my marketing director's E320 CDI DIESEL (which gets nearly 40 mpg on the highway).

    Acura should stop overselling performance until they make a serious commitment to deliver it. Honda did that with the S2000, maybe Acura could borrow from some performance engineers from it's little brother.
  • I just put a deposit down last night for a Tech/Ent, and was told the iPod link was recalled. Anybody know what the scoop is on this and when it is expected to be available again?
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "Acura should stop overselling performance....."

    Don't they all, from Kia to Mercedes, and everything else in between?! I've never heard a car company hype its model as having "adequate performance". But it's all just advertising & marketing hype. Take it with a grain of salt. Use your own buttmeter to judge.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Acura should stop overselling performance until they make a serious commitment to deliver it.

    Your posts have been very amusing. First of all, you don't seem to understand the term "power". Buttmeter isn't the end of it, only a part. 300 HP is 300 HP, no matter how you want to look at it.

    That said, it is funny anybody would call a car that can run 0-60 in 6.3s or have a rolling start of 6.9s, and run the quarter mile in 14.8s @ 95 mph as lacking performance. Delivering it all, along with a 0.87 on the skidpad on all-seasons and suspension tuned for comfort. Yes, thats RL for you, and those are numbers from C&D.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    300 HP is 300 HP, no matter how you want to look at it.

    Except that Acura's 300 hp is 290 horspeower under the SAE standard. And their 270 hp is 258 hp. Not a huge deal, except when you consider that Acura is now marketing it's 286 hp TL-S at a healthy price premium over the previous TL 6-speed, based primarily upon an extra 28 horspower.

    Yes, thats RL for you, and those are numbers from C&D.

    That same Car and Driver officially tested a 911S at 0-60 in 4.1 seconds in November, 2004. Later they tested one that had been fully broken in at 3.9 seconds. Porsche didn't run out and change their marketing materials and still list a conservative figure of 4.6 seconds. I'm not disputing C&D's numbers for the RL, just pointing out that if you don't do well by their "reckless abandon" testing methods, heaven help you.

    I'll agree with you - "power" is not the issue. Even the single-dimension published performance figures are not worth debating. I've spent some serious seat time in an RL. If you have, and find it to be an exciting to drive sport/performance sedan - quick, nimble, good steering feedback, etc., well, very good for you. I don't. I'd pick it over an E350 4-Matic or A6 AWD for comfort, luxury and technology. But I sure as heck wouldn't pick it over a 550i for performance, or even over a "less powerful" 530i/525i. We'll just have to agree to disagree if you find the RL in the 5 series league relative to driving dynamics and overall performance.

    Again, I own a TL 6-speed and like it. Have recommended it to friends and neighbors. Even the (gasp) slushbox automatic version. Not for someone looking for a serious sport sedan, but rather a very well balanced family sedan. I have no trouble recommending the Honda S2000 over the Porsche (base) Boxster based upon performance. However, if (as with the RL) the MDX has performance limitations due to poor gearing ratios and transmission design, their engineers obviously aren't taking performance as seriously as their marketing department.
  • ebbyebby Posts: 23
    I have driven 5 different 07 MDX (Base, Sport, et al.)just out of curiosity to feel 300 hp in a japanese V6 SUV. One obvious conclusion I have made is that, there is no dispute the MDX has 300 hp but the gearing (apparently first 3) is too conservative to make very good use of the torque/power band. The MDX power/torque curve is actually published in the brochure and I noticed it has approx 250 lb/ft at 3000 rpm. Only an aggressive gearing can make the MDX lauch with authority, because 250 lb/ft for a 4500 lb SUV is just adequate and not great (I chose the torque at 3000 rpm because that is the max most people get to when they take off. Few people will be revving the engine to 5000 rpm all the time). The peak torque of 275 at 5000 rpm is "too far" on the band for practical driving enjoyment. Plus you need a tall 1st and 2nd gearing to get you to 5000 rpm quicker. I own a an 05 V8 4Runner that weighs same as the MDX but has 306 lb-ft at 3400 rpm. If feels much quicker than the MDX at takeoff although measured 0-60 timing is just 0.4s better than the MDX. I also own 06 M35 that weighs 500 lbs less than the MDX for approximately the same torque. My recent 07 V6 Camry is 900 lbs lighter than the MDX but very comparable in torque (248 at 4700 rpm). It feels the most athletic of all the cars in the house. Lastly our family van Odyssey 244hp/240 lb-ft is 300 lbs lighter than the MDX but feels quicker than the MDX apparently because of decent gearing that extracts the best out of the 3.5 iVTEC. But in actual fact Odyssey is 1 sec slower to 60 mph than the MDX. Two things Acura needs to do to the MDX 1) Get a V8 for a decent torque, maybe detuned for less hp to save gas or in the interim, rework the gearing that goes with the 3.7 V6. I am still trying to understand the reluctance of Honda/Acura to make a V8 engine. Kia/Hyundai may lauch their soon. The MDX handles very well for an SUV but the performance part does not have to look good on paper alone, but must be felt as well. That is the disconnection. Until Acura fixes the "buttmeter" part of the feel, MDX may be towing the same line as the RL in sales !. The only reason I dont have one in my garage right now is nothing else but the way it feels at acceleration. Acura in my opinion can do much better than this.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "The only reason I dont have one in my garage right now is nothing else but the way it feels at acceleration."

    My God, how many cars do you need?! 4-Runner, M35, Camry, Odyssey. And you want to considering adding the MDX to the stable? :surprise: ;)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    C'mon habitat1, you could make better arguments than saying "except when you consider that Acura is now marketing it's 286 hp TL-S at a healthy price premium over the previous TL 6-speed, based primarily upon an extra 28 horspower." For a person who talks about 550i and is willing to compare acceleration credentials of RL with Porsche 911, it makes no sense to call the price differential between '06 TL/6MT and '07 TL-S/6MT "a hefty premium". Not if you know that differential is $2K and does come with more than just 28 extra horses. And I think C&D's comparison of "spoilsport sedans" said enough 530i versus RL, that I don't have to reiterate myself. For that matter, RL is simply too cushy of a cruiser to be considered an all out performance sedan. It shouldn't be. Although, it does a darn good job handling the twisties. The more you push it, the more it will play. Thats SH-AWD for you!

    But, the primary point of discussion here is, and should be, MDX which is rated 300 HP not 300 HP. Unless you decide to use two different standards for measurement of power. You do realize how power helps, don't you? It is clear that Acura hasn't made MDX a drag racer for the streets doing the quickest 0-30 mph runs. The gearing appears to be done to utilize the available power during highway acceleration.

    But, if you push it on a 0-60 run, it just might defy the reading off your buttmeter. I'm expecting the stint in low 7 seconds, reasonably quick for its purpose (its not a track or a drag racer, as far as I see it).
  • ebbyebby Posts: 23
    The only reason I dont have one in my garage right now is nothing else but the way it feels at acceleration."

    I collect cars for pleasure. I keep those that I love and let go of those of the others within a year or two. I am hesitant to bore you with the list of cars and SUVs I have cycled through in the last 5 years.

    Back to the MDX, if Acura rework the gearing (and may be redo the grille), I think it is a worthy and true competitor to the X5, with better reliability and pricing being additional plus.

    In my quest for the perfect car, it has been an illusion over the years trying to find the perfect SUV or car. Because it simply does not exist. Lexus sell tons of RX each year even though they are the least fun to drive. But they score high on comfort, luxury and resale value. MDX pricing undercuts X5 by several thousands but probably gives you 9/10ths the driving pleasure of the X5. May be that is just the compromise. From my 20 years of owing all sorts of cars, I have come to realize that you can't always have it all. Our complains about acceleration in the MDX is probably strange to most previous MDX owners that would see the new MDX a huge improvment over its predecessor, which truly I think it is.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    MDX is more than competitive with X5 (also considering that the new X5 with 3.0 also weighs a hefty 5000 lb). While BMW is likely to gear it much shorter, difference will show up at other speeds but, may be, "off the line".

    And I actually like the grill, and wish Acura were as passionate about exterior styling elements (especially grill) in its other cars, especially RL, RDX and to some extent TSX. Now only if Acura does what seems to win a lot of sales for BMW... competitive lease rates. Not many people "buy" cars in this price class, so lease rates define sales.
  • guyfguyf Posts: 456
    Agree, and the 8.1% currently offered on leases in Canada won't win me unless it goes down.
  • cericceric Posts: 1,093
    ebby:
    Honda/Acura has very powerful V8 used in F1. They don't use it or modify it for mass market because it is against Honda/Acura's "green image" as their CEO said in an interview. Honda is working to release a new bread of Diesel engines (likely start with new Accord) that is much cleaner than what it is today. They are also working on a V10 (why? because CEO said "no V8", the engineers have to improvise...) for the new NSX with 500hp+.
    Whether that V10 will be used for top of the line Acura (RL or MDX) is everyone's guess.
  • wmquanwmquan Posts: 1,817
    PBS stations have begun airing the episode. The transcript is at:

    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2610b.shtml

    Curiously, they got significantly slower 0-60 and quarter-mile times than the 2001 (though the exit speed at the 1/4 mile test was the same). A smidge longer braking distance too.

    Obviously those are two tests under different conditions years apart. But I thought the 2007 would do better in Motor Week's test. Motor Week's 2001 0-60 time was one of the fastest published. Here's the 2001 test:

    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2001a.shtml
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    "it makes no sense to call the price differential between '06 TL/6MT and '07 TL-S/6MT "a hefty premium". Not if you know that differential is $2K and does come with more than just 28 extra horses."

    I should have been clearer.

    In May 2004, I purchased my new 2004 TL 6-speed Navi for $31,800 (not including taxes). According to Acura, I was getting a 270 hp engine. The 2007 TL-S, at MSRP, would run me $38,995 for a (really, this time) 286 hp engine. A 23% increase in price.

    In January 2005, we purchased a 2005 MDX Touring, Nav/Entertainment for $41,000 (not including taxes). According to Acura, I was getting a 265 hp engine. The 2007 MDX at MSRP would be $48,465. An 18% increase in price.

    In both cases, the 2007 vehicles are being promoted as significant increases in performance. In the case of the TL, the difference is barely measurable. It's still FWD and you can add all the horsepower you want to it and the returns in real performance will be minimal.

    In the case of the MDX, it does appear that the 2007 redesign offers better handling, a better AWD system, etc. But, at least according to Motorweek, the real performance out of the 300 hp engine in a lighter MDX only "matches" the 3.0 liter 225 hp X5.

    Let's leave it at this: I bought both of our Acura's on the basis that they were the best balance of vehicle attirbutes and price value at the time. I still feel that way. At some point in the near future, when the 2007's are selling at or near invoice, they may provide a similar price/value relationship. But certainly not at MSRP and certainly not justified by significantly better performance.

    As for the RL, I can only say that it's getting the sales it deserves (or doesn't as the case is).
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    I agree on the MDX.

    My 545 lease is up in August 2008. At that time, if Acura has put in parking sensors front and rear, changed the console compartment to opening away from the driver, and the car is selling at maximum, invoice; I will take a look. (I've given up on expecting real wood.)
    With all the competition out there, and the perceived lack of prestige for the Acura name, invoice seems to be its eventual destiny.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Folks... This thing is meant to be sportee, not a true sports car. I'm reading talk about sedans, coupes, and 2-seaters here. Of course, it's not going to match up with those vehicles.

    That said, every first drive I've read commends the new MDX for being faster and more stable on the track than V6-powered X5. Only the Porsche Cayenne matched it for overall track performance. If that's not sportee, then what is?

    At the same time, the MDX rides better and offers a great deal of technology and luxury for a whole lot less money. Only a small percentage of the market wants a full-blown sports SUV. The goodness of the MDX is that it strikes a good balance between sport, utility, and luxury. Judging it solely on one of the those categories is IMO an exercise in tunnel vision.

    That balance is why the old MDX out-sold the X5 and Infiniti FX by a ratio of more than 2 to 1.
  • ebbyebby Posts: 23
    Interesting that Honda is working on a V10 (and not a V8). While I can understand a V10 for the NSX, I am not sure a V10 should be the next logical step-up for the current Honda/Acura V6. I love Honda/Acura engines for their turbine-like performance and linearity, but there is no substitute for cubic displacement in extracting torque and power from the internal combustion engine. The Ridgeline is an excellent truck due to its many innovations. But when it gets to the rough stuff like towing and carryng some tons of payload, it becomes obvious the Ridgeline is in dire need of a bigger engine (more torque). I have seen a couple of V6 engines churning out 300+ hp but I am yet to see one deliver 300 lb-ft (non-turbo) at a usable rpm. When you build cars and SUVs that tips the scales in the 4-5000 lb realm, you need all the torque you can muster to make them competitve in performance. And I keep seeing the trend in most automakers: they add variable timing, direct injection, et al. to get more horsepower that peaks at 6200+ rpm, but when you take a look at the torque number, you dont see a lot of gain. The torque gains speak for more displacement rather than anything else. I love to have torque, lots of it at a low rpm especially in SUVs. That's what the "buttmeter" is calibrated to read.
  • guyfguyf Posts: 456
    That's why I love the engine in my XC90, 2.5T. 236 ft-lb of torque at 1500 RPM. ;)
  • bakjdbakjd Posts: 1
    I bought my O7 MDX on Thursday. The salesperson didn't have a date but said Acura was working on it. When I checked this weekend, Acura was still listing it as an accessory for the 07 MDX, which is misleading and wrong. Without it, you have to use an FM transmitter to get your iPod to work with your MDX, and my experience with that in my metro area is that they don't work on our crowded airwaves.

    That said, I've already put 900 miles on my Tech/Ent model (two road trips), and I have to say that with the XM radio, I didn't miss the iPod link and now I don't care about it anymore. It's a very comfortable ride and the stereo is awesome. You will love yours, and I'm sure an aftermarket company will fix the iPod problem if Acura doesn't.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Torque delivery based on the official chart in new MDX seems to be:
    240 lb-ft @ 2000 rpm
    260 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm
    270-275 lb-ft @ 4000 - 5500 rpm (before tapering off).
  • burtsburts Posts: 6
    I have an '07 Sport/Ent. After about 600 miles on it, I am starting to get more aggressive with the throttle. And the comment about the soft throttle tip-in is right on. The drive-by-wire throttle seems to open the throttle in a very mellow way unless you get on it with some aggression. If you do that, it holds first gear and gets the motor up into the powerband. Honestly, it never is really fast, but it is quick enough to get out of its own way.

    But the real miracle of this car is the SH-AWD combined with the magnetic shocks. It has none of the nose-heavy feel of most big SUVs, and actually rotates on throttle. That is what makes this thing special. I actually enjoy driving it, and am ok when I have to leave my M3 in the garage...
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "...every first drive I've read commends the new MDX for being faster and more stable on the track than V6-powered X5."

    First of all, for Acura's sake, I would hope that it compares favourably against the outgoing X5 3.0! ;) Wonder how it would fare, though, against the new X5 3.0, never mind the V8 version?

    Secondly, most personal reviews from Joe Consumer that I've read seem punctuated with remarks about how the MDX seems sluggish, albeit measured with buttmeters.

    "That balance is why the old MDX out-sold the X5 and Infiniti FX by a ratio of more than 2 to 1."

    I'm not sure if the main reason is the "balance", or rather, the fact that it really was aiming at a totally different market, one which essentially viewed the MDX as an AWD Odyssey?
  • ebbyebby Posts: 23
    Acura is marketing the MDX as a an SUV with a sportier edge. The MDX commercials constantly refer to the MDX as turned on the famous German race track to deliver an SUV with Sport credentials superior to the X5 and the Porsche. And it better deliver. My early road test confirmed it handles exceptionally especially in the Sport Trim. Acura tells us they have a performance SUV from Asia that bests the performance of the best from Europe. I like to reiterate the expectation that the MDX be "better compare favourably against the outgoing X5 3.0! Wonder how it would fare, though, against the new X5 3.0, never mind the V8 version"
  • x5killerx5killer Posts: 368
    how large is the nav scree? from pics it looks small. doesn't seem to be as big of a nav screen as the TL which obviously is a much smaller car.

    my wife is getting an 06 TL with NAv and i'm envious of the nice large NAV screen which is also voice activated unlike my B9 Tribeca among other tech features the Acura has over subaru

    was thinking of getting the 07 MDX and test drove one but didn't have nav and dealer ddin't have any with nav yet.

    wasn't suuper impressed and while it will have some things the Tribeca doesn't there are a few though less things that i like better about the tribeca.

    not being super impressed i'm not in a major rush to get it plus will wait till i can get for invoice which may be awhile

    going with wife tonight to pick up her TL so will find out more about the mdx but i think they would have called me by now if they could do invoice and i have anothe dealer that will do the same though they said it took the old mdx 2-3 years to sell at invoice, i'm like oh well, i just wont by it then, in 2 years beter suvs will be out.

    plus speakin of tech like nav and the screens,, i saw in a magazine the new Chrysler Sebring has an all in one NAV unit with 20gb hard drive and usb connection so you can put mp3s and i assume movies and pictures as well. I am very interested in something like that i know Pioneer has some amazing all in one touch screen voice activated nav units some of whic i think have some hd space.

    i would get an Acura just for the superior voice activated nav which the new ones also have live traffic but if aftermarket units like the Pioneer might be better anyway then....

    this would prob be more for a Tribeca thread but i think i already asked if one of the Pioneer head units with larger screen then B9's nav would fit where the nav screen is on the tribeca. of course then you might lose the other menus of the nav system like the mpg, temp etc. which wouldn't be too preferable.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Making a point against an apple to banana to peeled banana comparison that you did in your post would be a good start to stir things up on this thread.

    MY2004 TL/NAV arrived with a price tag of $34.7K. It doesn’t depend on how much you paid at the showroom. MSRP in the following years don’t follow what you paid doesn’t get adjusted to market price in the past either. Along with additions and inflation, the MSRP on that model for MY2007 is $36.1K. Transmission didn’t matter, since both transmissions were priced identically. That addresses the banana to peeled banana comparison.

    Now, TL-S isn’t TL. It is another trim, not unlike TL-S from the previous generation. More horsepower, sport tuned chassis and a few additional features for an additional price. Those add-ons increased the MSRP (note: not to be confused with market price) to $38.1K. That’s a $2K premium for sport package, along with additional power. Is it too steep? You decide. Comparing pricing on two different trims, would be the apples to banana comparison.

    As far as MDX goes, it is a major model makeover, and not unlike something TL saw with MY2004 redesign. TL saw a jump in price by about 10%. MDX is seeing a jump of about 8%. And with the price came considerable improvements in both vehicles. So, complaining about abrupt increase in price is unwarranted. Again, if you want to, compare apples to apples (or bananas to bananas).
  • In May, 2006 I purchased a 2006 TSX for my wife. We also had a 2004 4Runner for light boat towing and carrying us, our 3 year old grandson and our stuff back and forth to the river. After getting her the TSX, I used every excuse I could find to drive it. I was so impressed (and continue to be) with the TSX that I began looking at the MDX. When the 2007 version came out I was in deep trouble. Last Saturday I purchased the Tech/Ent package in Dark Cherry. My feeling on both of these vehicles is that they are not the best at any one thing but if you like comfort and technology in a great all around package, they cannot be beat. The RES is already a big hit with the grandson.
  • ebbyebby Posts: 23
    Motor Trend published test results for the 07 MDX among several tested new-for-07 SUVs in their 2007 SUV of the year contest. I am posting here the test results for the MDX and Audi Q7 (V8). I am also extracting from archives the test results for the Infinity FX35 for comparison.

    MDX Q7 FX35
    0-60 (s) 7.5 7.5 7.3
    1/4 Mile(s) 15.9 15.6 15.5
    1/4 Mile (mph) 87.6 90.2 91
    Braking (0-60, ft) 129 118 123
    600-ft Slalom, mph 60.3 62.1 62.4
    Roadhoalding(g) 0.82 0.84 0.84

    Bottom line: I think the MDX is competitive in performance. The Audi Q7 is the 4.2 V8 version.
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