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Subaru XT Turbo Forester
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Comments
I've made some fairly sharp low speed turns from lock-to-lock and haven't had the wheel ever go off center.
Rotsa ruck. That never works with my wife; she traps me with the slightest inconsistency, especially when I try to justify buying something.
Re. HH: do you know if it can be adjusted so loose that it won't hold at all?...I don't like the idea of a hot rotor being held by the pads in one spot while they cool.
I don't think they can be completely defeated, but the effect certainly be reduced, both by adjustment and by altering your braking style to better suit (accomodate to) the HH. For what it's worth, I never readjusted mine, but their action is far less intrusive now than when the car was new. In addition, I've changed how I apply brakes when coming to a complete stop (e.g. much more lightly at the very end), after which the HH hardly 'sets' at all. Plus, hot iron disk rotors take much longer to cool down than just the minute or two at a traffic light, so I really don't think they will contribute to warpage.
it is sometimes more efficient to drive in a lower gear with more throttle.
From your context, I assume by lower you mean staying in 3rd instead of 4th or 4th instead of 5th. Most engineering analyses would say the opposite - an Otto-cycle engine should provide better combustion efficiency by (within limits, avoiding lugging, for example) getting into the higher gears sooner rather than later.
Any XT owners have problems with the steering wheel being offset towards the direction of the last U or sharp turn?
I've heard that mentioned, but detect no sign of it on mine.
wrx swaybars
There are other Subaru/Forester conferences where suspension mods are yakked about endlessly. We're not allowed to say which, but search Google and you'll find them.
ABS engagement
The ABS on my XT is less prone to kicking in over ordinary pavement irregularities than others I've driven.
I've often been accused of being long in the tooth, but long in the "bum" is a new one!
On a more serious note, getting rid of the ML430, in favor of an XT is a no brainer. It has been a very problematic vehicle, and now that it's out of warranty, it's become expensive to keep up. It's been an excellent snow vehicle, but a very poor Mercedes (I know, I've had 4 of them). Subarus in general and Foresters in particular, are also excellent snow vehicles. I would estimate that at least 1/2 of the full time residents, here on Beech Mtn., drive Subaru's of one form or another.
Jack - check your e-mail.
Cheers
Pat
My cat, delighful in every other way, hates being forced to ride in cars. She 'rewards' me every time.
re; e-mail - sorry! forgot you have to work -PITY!!
Cheers
Pat
Don-
If you haven't swapped the RE92s on the WRX, swap them for crippier tires i.e. SP5000s. I did the swap recently and noticed the ABS to be less trigger happy [more normal]. Should the ABS continue to give you some good heart pumping thereafter, call it in [1-800-SUBARU3] to have a case file started.
-Dave
Cheers
Pat
I'll tell you the 04 V6 HL (gray interior + tilt moonroof + JBL Stereo) is a fine vehicle. BUT I just can't get that glove-like behind the wheel driving position - keep wanting to get the seat bottom to drop - feels like I'm way too high in the saddle reaching somewhat down to steering wheel - inside rearview mirror almost at eye-level. Weird thing is I fit fine in my Camry (same DNA) - what did the HL engineers do to this thing? I'm only 6' tall (inseam 32") I should fit in Toyota's Mid-Size SUV no sweat.
Did Toyota reckon most females (read soccermoms) are 5'2" - 5'8" and corrupt the cockpit accordingly!? Is this typical minvan seating or something? No other SUV/Truck/Car that I've tested (and I have made quite a nuisance of myself, I assure you) is as weirdly ergonomically unfriendly.
By comparison, I slide into the XT and with a minimum of tweaking the seat I'm tucked in sweetly. Smaller vehicle - better fit. Go figure. Anyway, Hats off to the Subaru Seat Team!
-Frank P.
Step away from both vehicles and ask yourself, what do you really want?
If you pick sporty, the XT will leave a smile on your face that will make it easy to overlook whatever minor shortcomings it has.
OTOH, the HL could be the world's most perfectly reliable, quality vehicle, but if it's no fun, you'll regret the purchase every day you own it, and envy XT owners.
Now, if you have 3 kids and drive around pot holes all day and really don't ever drive fast, then that's different.
-juice
Good grief. There's the problem! I should have bought a Highlander.
Yep, JB, my observations are based on the 8-Way Power Diver's Seat in full vertical down position. Odd.
a higher seating position is normally a selling point for many would-be SUV owners since it allows the driver to see out over the traffic ahead
Feels like Toyota is artificially jacking the eye-point up by having the seat too high in the cabin. Compensating for the easy ingress-egress which I think they're also marketing to the gals. Like you, Frank, I prefer to sit lower - not necessarily my rear end closer to the road - but in relationship to the wheel - not only more comfortable but more control. Feel and postion of the driver's seat are probably the top ranked priorities to me.
Anyway, really glad I discovered this design flaw before dropping $30K and owning it. Funny, I had rented a HL a while back and the power seat was broken - stuck in full-up vertical - one should recognize the voice of God when one hears it...
Having repeated Visions of a bright star cluster...
-srp
Either the driver does not see me or perhaps being in the high crime Atlanta area I frighten him as he probably figures I am up to no good (probably another panhandler of some type no doubt). In a blast of turbo power the XT driver rockets off to make a left turn. My NA 4.0 V6 truck is sadly left behind. Could it have been that I was behind someone who posts on this board?
Naaa - I mean what would the chances of that be?
-Frank P.
I should have bought a Highlander...sigh...
-Frank P.
-Brian
Sam- Well it's news to me. what's your source?
I too would be completely unhappy if a cheapo battery in my brand new car caused difficulty when starting in cold weather. However, I don't buy that for a minute. There are plenty of Forester owners who live in much colder climates than yours and you don't hear them complaining. That's not to say that the OEM battery is the best performer on the market. I don't think any manufacturer (including Subaru) splurges on top-of-the-line batteries but the OEM one should perform acceptably for at least 3 years.
I still think that something is draining the battery. You either left something on or there's a bad ground somewhere.
-Frank P.
That last sentence is a bit over the top. My XT battery is older than yours, and several times during our recent foul weather I had to leave mine parked in the open in 10-degree weather. No difference in cranking speed than when the weather was warm. No difference at all.
The gearbox lube was stiffer than snot for the first mile, but there was absolutely no problem getting the engine to spin and start.
Seating position (was still on my driving position jag) in the 4Runner much better than the Highlander - went back and forth between the two no less than 6 ‘seatings’ each (oh yeah, I’m one sick pup!)
4Runner (dark blue ext/dark gray int) is a beautiful tank-of-a-beast (wide, well placed armrest and remote up/down back window alone would would sell me on it vs HL - nevermind the preferred seating). The Sport version has a very tight ride, minimal lean and roll (for an SUV) and plenty of power. Almost equal mpg in XT vs 4Runner despite the 4230 curb wt. Quiet on the freeway. Upscale, solid interior. Lots of cargo space. Real deal of SUVs.
Then immediately put almost a half hour in the XT. Neighborhood, desert back roads and freeway. Salesman very laid back. Happy to be out for a Sunday drive. No pressure to buy. My best XT (#6?) test drive yet.
I’m finally beginning to soften on my “rough, noisy ride” stance - and this particular XT (Aspen/ noPP) was 100% creak & rattle free. I found myself much more at one with the nimbler, faster albeit significantly less-substantial and less spacious XT. Any feeling of true control one would have driving the 2 Ton SUVs would IMHO be illusory.
Anyway, Apples and Oranges.
Arguably drove the best ‘true’ SUV vs the best sportwagon/small SUV available. I could be happy with either. Ah, but happiest...?
-Frank P.
I guess I got a good one. The car had A/T & AWP (heated seats, mirrors, block heater) so it may have had a better OEM battery to start with.
DaveM
My 04 XT is worse - goes from a one crank start above 32degF or so to 3 or so sluggish cranks in the morning after a few days of 10 degF. This is with the car being driven everyday. I let it set from Friday night to Sunday morning and it wasn't a confidence inspiring experience to listen to the engine crank.
I think the (325?) CCA of the Forester battery could be better. This weather's been so cold for so long around here even the wife's OBW is a little sluggish after it sets a day or so and it has a beefier battery.
Don't know why they couldn't up the CCA of the battery, especially on cars equipped with the AWP. I wouldn't have minded kicking in an extra $10 on the sticker.
For you folks with the better performing batteries - are yours MT vs my AT?
Just curious.
Larry
Fit and finish seems to vary widely amongst the Forester's owned by folks on these forums.
Larry
Maybe the battery hasn't the opportunity to be conditioned.
-Dave
I realize it's only my bias showing, but wild horses couldn't drag me to buy any vehicle weighing over 2 tons. I like nimble; I hate ponderous. I am happiest, and my minimalist leanings are best satisfied, when I'm driving the lightest vehicle that just barely manages to meet 90% or so of my transportation requirements. I don't include maybe-once-a-year needs in those requirements; I can always rent something for those rare instances where greater capacity is needed.
At only age 6 months, it's too soon to give a glowing testimonial, but in 10-degree temperatures, mine gave me no concern at all. That's with the manual gearbox. The latter was extremely stiff right after cold-weather starts
Unless the specific characteristics of either one strongly meet your requirements better than the other, you can't lose with either one. The XT is somewhat more utilitarian and and versatile, and will undoubtedly be thousands cheaper, but the Legacy will likely be quieter and more refined, have a roomier back seat, and wow! - that gorgeous styling. Maybe Juice can confirm whether it'll be offered with manual gearbox and leather and sunroof; for many folks, that would be a deciding factor between the two.
If I hadn't already bought an XT, I personally would absolutely, positively wait a few more months until I could directly compare both of these excellent choices.
There are two problems with the spring loaded versions IMO, first - they put pressure on the headliner and can leave marks. Second, they aren't as well anchored as one that actually attaches to something.
But - they do tend to cost a lot less. The Subie grate is way overpriced, also IMO. That being said my Forester and my wifes's OBW both have the OEM grates and we really like them.
HTH
Larry
Ballistic, My concern with the HH is the discs don't have to cool all the way down to warp. I think it is the temp. diff. of the section that is held by the pads and the other areas that causes the warping...I remember seeing a picture of a supposed warped disc with the imprint of the pads baked in.
I hope the Legacy GT doesn't get burdened by weight the way the Baja does. Does anyone know if it is the 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engine that will be put in the Legacy?
Don
It seems that the AT with a torque converter full of cold fluid would take more CCA to get spinning, hence have more of a tendency to drag.
I've run it past three of the gearheads here at work and they agree that my theory intuitively sounds plausible.
Larry
Add about 5K to your XT price, Frank.
wild horses couldn't drag me to buy any vehicle weighing over 2 tons
I hear that, JB. I can't seem to quite get with the marketed appeal of these things. Despite the creature comforts, try as I might, something inherently repels me. Seems odd one would choose to 'get used' to a driving experience so immediately foreign - and piloting a 2Ton vehicle is foreign or at least it should be! But there sure are a lot of these Small Car Killers on the road. And sadly being driven by folks who seem to be completely unschooled in the basic principles of physics. If you can't beat 'em join 'em has always rung hollow for me. Prefer catch me if you can.
Better yet, Kiss My White XT ;-)
Larry
-B
I understand the concern, I just don't think the HH is likely to have any greater adverse effect than non-HH brakes. I say this as one who isn't that wild about the HH. I eventually altered my driving style somewhat to reduce the HH's initial annoying intrusion. Mainly, I formed the habit of easing way off the brakes just as the wheels stop turning, and then making certain I didn't add any pressure during the stop prior to getting going again. This causes the HH to 'set' very lightly - no more than absolutely necessary to prevent creeping back. Your foot would apply that much pressure during a stoplight wait anyway, so the HH would be no worse from a rotor warp perspective than a non-HH vehicle.
...I remember seeing a picture of a supposed warped disc with the imprint of the pads baked in
I can't speak to the circumstances that created that condition, but I'd think the rotors would have to be extremely hot - far above ordinary everyday peak operating temps - for anything like that to occur.
I hope the Legacy GT doesn't get burdened by weight the way the Baja does. Does anyone know if it is the 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engine that will be put in the Legacy?
The Baja uses the current-generation (old) Legacy structure (appreciably heavier than the new Forester), plus it adds some reinforcement. Plus all that ugly cladding.
Early reports indicate that expanded use of aluminum has reduced the next-gen Legacy's weight by 150-200 pounds, and that it might actually weigh barely more than my XT. That would be a terrific accomplishment, and would make it just that much more desirable. Imagine the performance of the 5-speed Legacy turbo if its engine actually exceeds the XT's power by 10% or more, but the curb weights are similar. Then imagine the Legacy 5-speed automatic's advantage over the 4-speed XT. Makes me drool.
There will be 6-cyl versions of the next-gen Legacy and/or Outback, but the Legacy GT Turbo will use the detuned STi 4-cyl, as does the XT.
Hurray! Glad to hear that. Sometimes I feel like the lone voice in the wilderness.
piloting a 2Ton vehicle is foreign or at least it should be! But there sure are a lot of these Small Car Killers on the road.
On 99% of controversial issues, I come down on the side of less gummint interference rather than more. However, I absolutely, positively would support legislation capping the weight of all vehicles sold to non-commercial owners at some reasonable maximum. Putting herds of 6-7,000# lb SUVs on the same roads with 3,000# autos is ridiculous - and yet it is unarguably the latter, not the former, that are in line with the critical national interest to reduce our dependence on oil imported from unreliable foreign sources.
Jack - I'm with you on capping vehicle size, especially in large urban areas.
On topic - isn't it wonderful that the XT is so quick and maneuverable?
Larry