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Chevrolet Cobalt

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Comments

  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Whether it is a Cobalt SS, Neon, Civic, Ion, etc., they all cost about the same in their sport configuration. These cars are for the tuner minded who like the compact size, weight, and style.

    A lot of people who buy and build imports, and even the new American pocket rocket cars, don't particularily care for Camero's and Mustangs. The import tuner is known to put $10-20,000 into their 4-cylinder engine for an edge on the other drivers.

    The Celica was ok, but it didn't sell very well. I think the Cobalt and other coupes looks better than the Celica. I may be wrong by not looking, but I think the Cobalt SS, Ion, Neon, can also out perform the Celica in handling, excelleration, etc.
  • ndsax707ndsax707 Posts: 30
    Bingo. The Cobalt SS is at the top of it's class in handling. Those 18" wheels must really be hurting its performance...

    Motor Trend Feb 2005

    "The Cobalt SS is the fastest regular production front-drive car through the slalom we've tested in three years, rocking through the cones even faster than the new Corvette Z51. The SS out cornered the VW R32 on the skidpad, outgunned the Mini Cooper S 0-to-60 mph, and outstopped the Subaru Impereza WRX 60-to-0 mph."


    The Celica GTS is $22,500, has 180 hp and 130 lb-ft of torque. The Cobalt SS costs about the same, has 205 hp and 200 lb-ft of torque, and has superior handling. It's a no-brainer.

    More about wheel sizes...
    Loren claimed NASCAR uses tires that flex and they are 15". Don't see them as not gripping. NASCAR and every other major racing body limits wheel and tire sizes to promote competition and increase safety, not to maximize performance. NASCAR's limit is 15". LeMans Prototypes have an 18" limit. Look at the following list and tell me again why your 14" Miata wheels perform better than 17" wheels would. I'm not talking about practicality, just performance.

    Car - Tire size front / rear

    Ford GT - 18/19
    Dodge Viper - 18/19
    Carrera GT - 19/20
    SLR McLaren - 19/19
    Corvette - 18/19
    Enzo - 19/19
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    First of all, while slalom and later G tests are good indicators of handling, it is not the end all. Have you seen a road test, or track test between the Cobalt SS, Acura RSX and Celica GT? I would not buy the Celica GT-S but would instead go for the GT. Less HP, but almost the same torque. Unless drag racing or on the track, GT will have adequate torque to sport the back roads. A Celica GT will hold resale value better, as it is not a modified economy coupe and is a Japan make. The Mustang V6 has 205 HP without all the supercharger stuff going on. Cost the same or less than the Cobalt SS. I did not say that NASCARs could not handle better with larger tires, say on a road course. I did say they are not flying off the track just because the tires are less in size. If you want to pretend your car is a LeMans racer, fine, pay the extra money for the tires. My Miata, with 14" wheels will take all the turns on tight twisty roads at around double speed if ya want to, so how much faster do you need to go? Porsche 944 came with 16" wheels, and I bet ya it out handles the Cobalt. Corvettes use to come with 16" wheels. Heck a lot of performance cars came with 15" wheels. A Celica still has 15" wheels. As for the max on Miata, I think it is 16" size before the car slows down and performance suffer, for the first gen. cars, and 17" are OK on the second gen. cars. The suspension is pretty tight on those race cars. I doubt it will be the same on a Cobalt, so will it really be doing better at handling the unsprung weight - nahhh. I assume it out later G tests the VW due to the high profile of the VW compared to the Cobalt. The modern day tires have really helped the scores for later G tests. That said, there is a lot of bumps in the roads, and power shifting going on, and a whole lot of other elements once actually driving the car on the road. Good that it does well in the later G. Hope it does well on the road too. I am sure it will perform well. GM has made cars that did well on the road. CobaltSS may be just perfect, in its class. That said, where's the value? If you want a street car racer, why not buy a used Camaro SS which still more power than the current Mustang GT, or a used Corvette ( they have big tires, now-a-days ). Now a Corvette is Americas sports car. The Corvette and Mustang are also RWD. Mustang RWD and under $20K. And that is Americas Pony car.
    Loren
  • ndsax707ndsax707 Posts: 30
    Loren,

    I think this really comes down to us having different automotive philosophies. I think you're older, wiser, more experienced, and attracted to cars with above-average abilities and modest but attractive styling. I'm younger, smarter, and better-looking. No, I'm kidding. I'm attracted to cars that are at the top of their class in performance, and sporty and aggressive in appearance.

    I am still learning about different cars and trying to experience them all for myself. I love driving and I love pushing the car and myself to the edge. Faster is never fast enough. I'll sacrifice practicality and convenience for performance any day as long as it's within reason. Firmer ride, bent rims, more expensive tires? Screw it, give me the 18"ers any day. I like how they look and I like how they drive. I believe you that your 14" Dunlops give you everything you need out of your Miata. For me that wouldn't be enough. The ultimate car for me has always been the Corvette. But until I can afford to keep one as my weekend car, I'll be interested in getting as much performance as I can out of my sporty daily driver. You're content to let good enough alone, but I'm always looking for more.
    .
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Yes, from experience, which means some years of owning cars, I see the Cobalt as going down the same path as previous modified small cars of recent years. You pay more for the added soup to the point where you could have purchased the next car up. And yes, the most fun Cobalt will be the SS model and it will do a quick zero to a speeding ticket. Actually, if performance for the dollar is the deal of the day, the Camaro SS was and is still the hot ticket, I would think. The 5.7 liter 310HP is more than a match for a 4 cylinder anything! Just saying that when you get into top pay for the little car, you never get the return on cash paid... or should I say in recent years, a good return. Now a Nova or Plymouth Duster 340 would pay out big time if bought back in the 60's or 70's, but I don't see this FWD and super charged 4 cylinder cars as having the same lust to them looking years ahead. I could be wrong on that. Never say never. The Cobalt could catch on as some sort of new cult street racer. If I was paying that much for FWD cars, I would be looking more for Acura RSX quality. For visual bang for buck, there are plenty, like the Stang. As for better performance from the 18" over a 16" on a Cobalt, I bet ya it is all for show. I think the term is that they look sick, which I now understand means something good and not that the car has sudden gone ill. Let's see bad is good, and sick is healthy.... ahhhh, I can't keep up with reverse speak. If one is looking for cornering capabilities, you can look to the Miata. FWD cars, at the limit may not give ya what you want. But then again, I think that on the street, one has limits as to chances to be taken, and becoming yet another national statistic 1144 at an early age is not something to look forward to. If young people do buy this car to take it to the limit, the insurance company will find that limit very fast. Faster than a speeding ticket, is the premium to be paid on insurance after a few cars are wrapped around trees. Don't know what the top end speed of the Cobalt SS is, but would not want to see a wreck in one over 100 MPH without a full roll cage. For $20k, you can also buy a used Corvette. Serious power and handling, and of course buyer beware as it is a beast. And you can race the Cobalt on the track after they are finished playing with the cones. - Loren
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    There is a big difference between a loaded car and stepping up to the next level of car. For me if I was to buy a loaded Aveo or Cobalt I would not want to step up to the next level because that level is a base model car. For instance if I had a loaded $14,500 Aveo, why wouldn't I just jump into a Cobalt? Because I wouldn't want a base Cobalt. I would want the loaded $19,500 Cobalt. But if I am interested in a $19,500 Cobalt, I may as well jump into a base Malibu. But again I wouldn't want a base Malibu, I would want one that has all the features. Where do I go from hear? I am not going to a Park Avenue Ultra now..
  • And the automakers know that, its why they do this whole pricing strategy in the first place.

    Does anyoneknoe if they will replace the 2.0L S/C with a S/C version of the 2.4L? They showed a version in Germany that does 250hp!
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I see that " poncho167 " likes the fully loaded cars in each line. I am sure the dealership and GM love you. They would hate to see me come on in, as I am just the opposite, as in cheap. You are a better consumer, no doubt. I find some options annoying, as well as, expensive and un-needed. Yeah, there are some cool things which would be nice to have though. If they would make electric windows with power always on, I may even enjoy those. As it is now, I have two cars without power windows, and love it. No fishing around to find a key to roll up windows, or a passenger dying in the heat. You always get your money back on air conditioning, and auto transmission, so I guess that makes sense, though most come standard anyway. I would try a stick first to see how good it is for that make, then decide on stick vs. auto. Sunroofs take up headroom, can squeek or leak, and I don't see them as anything all that great. Get a targa top or drop top if sun and wind is your thing. I have a Miata, which is good for top down on good weather days, but I got the convertible since the car is made that way. Ya know, it seems to be the last 4 cylinder RWD sports car now. Gone is the 240sx, rest its soul. I read the review on the Cobalt SS, and it is as I thought it would be, a good car, but not an RSX. Cobalt in regular flavor is what I would buy, unless the SS could be found for half price in three years time, and owned by an older driver.
    Loren
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    While I know this is not a comparison discussion, a few questions were asked, so I will answer them quickly and let you guys move on ...

    (1) I did not drive a Cobalt before purchasing my Mazda3. We had a horrible experience with a 1995 Cavalier (four head gaskets in 52,000 miles) and have sworn off GM products -- for now. By contrast, this is my sixth new Mazda vehicle since 1991, and I have been a very pleased customer.

    (2) My 2005 Mazda3 is a five-speed hatchback/wagon/whatever they're calling it this week. I moved up from a 2000 Protege sedan and I love the flexibility and sportiness of this car, not to mention the horsepower increase from 125 to 160. I would not buy an automatic car.

    (3) My Mazda3 is almost two months old and has a little over 2,000 miles on it. We've already had a few days above 90 and my air conditioning works fine -- whatever problem there was appears to have been limited to early 1994 models (most of the people complaining about it over on the Mazda3 discussions purchased their Mazda3s in October through December 2003). And I'm a big guy (280 pounds) and it takes quite a bit to cool down my big ol' bod, especially since I'm normally commuting 19 miles each way in a business suit.

    (4) It's Velocity Red. :shades:

    Enjoy your Cobalts; I'll see you at the next traffic light!

    Meade
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Some people have reported a whine sound from the electric assist steering on Mazda3 cars. I see GM is moving to electric steering as well -- any strange sound coming out of Cobalts? What's so good about all this electric stuff? First throttle-by-wire, which some have problems with and now the steering assist by electronics. I just want good feel like I get from my Miata. Steering always good, no noise, no artificial feel there at all. I take it throttle-by-wire is not on the Cobalt, or am I wrong. Looks like Cobalt will be a good little car for those getting one. I think that the Mazda3 inside and outside looks more interesting. Not saying that Cobalt looks bad. Just think that a little more character, and attitude needs to be added to the style. Some personality. As for Mazda3, it is the sedan and not the hatchback I am talking about. There are some in the 3 series a bit over-the-top in fashion. Velocity Red, you say? Ah yes, speeding while stopped. I owned a Stealth in Firestorm Red, and you could see it for miles. Have fun in your Mazda3 and for those in Cobalts, have lots of fun too!
    :shades:
    Loren
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Chevy has used the electric power steering on a few cars for at least 2-years starting with the Malibu I believe. Manufactures are starting to go electric because there is less drag on the engine from a drive belt, and electric power steering has no drive belt on a power steering pump. So that should be good for a couple of free horsepower.

    I have always preferred a stick shift as well. I know on the older automatic transmissions, you could count on losing between 20-30 hp just by having that luxury.
  • bporter1bporter1 Posts: 229
    Has anyone seen the report from the NHTSA about the Cobalt Side Impact Crash Tests? I have and I am very disappointed that the Cobalt did poorly in the test. The car was not tested with side impact airbags, but it still should have done better for a new design.I know the Cobalt did pretty well in the IIHS side impact test with side airbags. Anyway,the Cobalt was high on my list, but if I end up buying a small car it will be a Corolla.
  • Safety is important, but the tests aren't 100% real-world. For instance, my grandmother was hit by a Dodge Ram 4x4 traveling at 55mph in her 1999 Malibu (no side airbags) on the passenger side. On the passenger side of the car was my 86 year-old great-aunt. The crash did not harm either my grandmother or great-aunt, except for the aches and pains they received. It could have just been grace from Heaven, but I feel that they were pretty safe in that car which undoubtedly would not have tested very well.

    I would take the IIHS tests more seriously than NHTSA although both are reliable.
    Its good that you are taking safety seriously though. :)
  • tiger10tiger10 Posts: 46
    the corolla got good ratings in side impact crash test ratings compared to the poor ratings all the others got in the class. corolla is the best compact car out there and i know it because i own one. :shades:
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    The Cobalt and import Corolla are the best for their class according to the crash tests. The Cobalt and the Corolla also feared the same without the side impact bags. So the question is this, support a new upscale compact car that is rated really well all-around, or chose to purchase another good car made by another country.
  • jlecc2288jlecc2288 Posts: 1
    2005 Cobalt Sedan purchased new in March. 2300 miles. AC doesn't work (compressor doesn' kick in) when the car is hot. First time the dealer said it was a loose wire. Second time he said a recall fix corrected it. I'm about to go back for a third time and the car is less than three months old. Anyone else have this problem?
  • bporter1bporter1 Posts: 229
    That is a really good question. My mother owns a 2004 Corolla, and she loves it.
    I have driven the Corolla, and it is a very good car. I have not driven the Cobalt, but have looked at them, and sat inside them. I think that GM finally did their homework and brought out a car that is very competitive. I have a GM card so the incentive to buy GM is still there.

    Dontshopthewal: I realize that the crash tests are not real world figures, and each crash is different, but man can GM get it right on all fronts for once?
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Now we're talking! New base price for the Cobalt starting at $12,470.63 Not bad for the little coupe. I am thinking of up sizing my cars going forward, but I do like smaller for gas mileage and scooting around town. This looks like a pretty good deal. Was also looking at the price of Monte Carlos starting at $17,952.80. The G6 is now $18,497.38 for the V6 4dr. Looks like it has the newer 3.5 V6 compared to 3.4 and 3.8 in the Monte Carlo, which changes next year. Could very well be wrong, but it looks like some of the prices are better than the previous rebates + this n' that to the net-net. Some look impressive. Those that paid more just a few days ago, I am sure will not be so happy.
    Loren
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I can guarantee that some customers will be FURIOUS they can't get the huge rebates GM has accustomed them to along with these far more realistic prices. I wonder what effect, if any, this new pricing scheme will have on financing.
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    If this is part of the new GM pricing strategy, is it only temporary? I heard that the public will be able to receive the same deal as a GM employee. I know that the put your neighbor in a new GM program (given by the employees) gives 18% off the list price.

    Yes, there probably will be people who will get angry because of the lack of the rebate. They just need to be educated much like those who shop at Saturn and Car Max, who pay list price for a car, with no dickering.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I would think that those that bought a couple days ago at a higher price may not be too happy now. Once you lower a price to a certain level, how will you go back. Like showing your hand in poker, is it now?
    Loren
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Actually, since they went to lower GMS prices, rebates were lowered (if not eliminated entirely), and things like special APR offers or lease deals were reduced or eliminated, this may not be the screaming deal it sounds like. Many folks who just bought cars are finding the differences in the tens or hundreds - certainly not thousands of $$$.

    --Robert
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    were good again - 23,649 units sold.

    I think the crash safety ratings have boosted the Cobalt's standing. It has moved (along with the Corolla) to the top of the list for a lot of buyers.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I would never lease a car. I suppose some are getting a break on their taxes, so I makes sense. I am not in that position to need a tax break. As for buying on time, I no longer have a desire to make banks or GMAC financing any richer. I prefer to save money. What I can afford to buy, I buy. A borrower, nor a lender be ;) Ben, knows. I do like the idea of a lower price on these GM cars. A few prices still seem a bit high, but most look really good. Now, do they have the cars I want? Wish more had stick shifts, but I guess most Americans are shiftless. :surprise:
    Loren
  • poncho167poncho167 Posts: 1,178
    Americans sure don't like to shift, but I do. My last three vehicles have been manuel shift. I like having control of the car and would have a hard-time adjusting to an automatic. In fact I have had to lower my future car pick expectations based on if they have a stick shift or not. It was hard selling the 1967 GTO convertible 4-speed last summer after losing storage space.

    Americans account for some 5% of new car sales with stick shift, while in Europe I believe it's over 50%.
  • sean3sean3 Posts: 158
    Looked at a Cobalt LT coupe today, must say this looks like the best GM has ever done at a serious competition. Any coments are welcome
    Dashboard Looks like it was lifted from a Toyota, very quality looking peice

    Simple side mouldings, modern pull style exterior door handles.

    Flush rear and windshield moldings, (ever notice other GM's, they stick out and look cheap)

    My only reservations are minor as I look at details.

    The Old style whip antenna looks cheap, intergrate it into the rear window, it amazes me the technical advances auto makers have made but still stick an ugly 1950's antenna on the finished product/

    The base engine has no Variable valve technology.

    Will the round taillamps look good a few years from now? (coupe)

    I think the coupe looks best from the side, the front has a late 80's econo look, But all in all I'm liking the looks a bit more than the outgoing civic.

    They had the employee price posted which was 2,000 off msrp, seems like you can get this deal even without the employee price. Looks like the interior is where GM FINALLY honed in on, maybe the seats less so, but the dash looks as good as anything coming from hontoy..the parking brake looks a little akward, and the post mounted locks look a little funny,

    What color do you think looks the best in the coupe,

    especially in the area of the rear lamp surroundings? I am considering this little monster strongly, any opinions Thanks Sean
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    I would not worry about the round tail lights not looking good years from now, since they have been like that on Corvettes for decades -- everyone loves the Vette! I would worry about the arm rests wearing out and getting dirty looking. The front looks boring. Overall it looks pretty nice. For those wanting something that will stand out more, there is the Monte Carlo starting at under $18K right now. At 180HP and 32 MPG freeway, it is still sort of an economy car. Sure beats the Mustang V6 automatic gas mileage. Looked at one today - not bad. Should be RWD, but what the heck. Look at Mustang sales - what was GM thinking :confuse: Just think if the Cobalt, G6 and Monte had RWD, 5 speed options as a stick and 5 sp. auto. It would be selling faster for sure. A V8 Monte Carlo - please. The V6 3400 and 3800 are OK by me, but for added sale, they need the V8 back. How about a 3.5 for the Cobalt? As for colors, red and that new metalic orange is cool. The darker blues look good. Not sure I like white and silver on this car. What do others think?
    Loren
  • sean3sean3 Posts: 158
    The Monte is to wanna-be for my taste, yes the 3800 Is one of GM's best powerplants which should be standard in this coupe, with the V8 on SS.FWD, nah,

    I am thinking the Cobalt will take on the Bargain basement cavalier image soon? what do you think?
    ___why did GM carry over the cheap drivetrain from the cavalier on the new cobalt, No clean slate?
    ___They should have deleted or relocated the trunk lock cylinder
    ___is this the same engine that ate head gaskets for lunch?
    ___Is this ecotech engine nearly refined as Toyotas small 4cyl?

    I'm not really a brand loyalist, in my 20's, and have owned Nissan,Honda,Mitsu,Olds,Buick,Geo,Chevy,Chrysler and consistently the Japanese brands have always aged better in my case, even having twice the miles of some of there US plates,
    I must say the drivetrain in the 3.8L GM's i've owned have been dead reliable, its just everything else that was just so-so. I want to beleive that GM is starting to see the light, but it seems to late, They are a bohemeth of a company, with fixed expenses retirement-healthcare killing them, along with the cry baby union, It's hard to see them remain competitive, Toyota is knippin at the Generals heels, But hey GM agreed to those Fat pension/healthcare plans so...GM got to Big and comfortable and stayed there.....for years..so its hard to feel bad for them..I hope they can turn it around, they used to own 1/2 the NA market share!! now they will be lucky to take 20% by the time Toyota gets there slice sad for a company thats been around forever, threatened by a once offshore company that everybody lauged at, I used to favor and somewhat defend foreign nameplates, But now I feel like GM is the little guy trying to get there cut to stay afloat, i never in a million years thought GM could ever wimper to another carmaker on home soil...Lazy and unimaginative for to long..GM needs to kick it into gear, and fast..There products sit on the same platform and drivetrains for way to long, Give us a mass market must have, they don't..A Camry of GM's
    and perhaps a Nice alternative to the Sienna. Odyssey, they do very well in there segment.
    I read that Chrysler started the Minivan research and development thing back in early 1977 and they were the first and they sold like
    crazy, I guess all the good ideas are already taken, But GM gave us the Wondefull dustbuster/anteater looking Silohuette,Transport as an answer to Chrysler's successfull established Van thing..They always seem late to the game, Heck chrysler group always seems like the outa the box thinkers..They go after the gotta have it factor,but have there solid core products already making good profits..so they kinda take a chance..and they were at the brink of bankruptcy a couple times....Times have sure changed for the big 3..I think the Cobalt is much refined to the Neon, but the Neon is on its way out, soon to be replaced. so who knows. IMHO. Thanks Sean
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Well, let's see, sean3:

    *GM used to have nearly 60 percent of the US market! They were widely suspected of keeping AMC afloat for antitrust reasons.

    *It was FORD who developed the minivan, but didn't have the guts to market it. When Lee Iacocca was fired at Ford, he went to Chrysler where he encouraged them to improve on Ford's ideas and get the vehicle out. Renault was also instrumental in all this, and Lee ended up getting Chrysler to acquire AMC from Renault.

    *Whip antennas? Most manufacturers are going back to them. There are way too many complaints about reception from the in glass antennas, and the whip antennas are less expensive to boot. Power ones result in many, many warranty claims. Even the new Ford Five Hundred has a whip antenna.

    *Meanwhile, you want them to delete the trunk key? Another cost saver most companies are now doing that GM didn't do here? Can they win for losing?

    *Head gaskets? In the mid-Nineties, as asbestos was removed from gaskets, nearly every company had engines eating gaskets for lunch. I, myself, had a 3800 from GM eat one on a 95 Olds LSS. GM's response? Nothing. Still, I bought two more of those engines from them in the next five years...the cars were the ones that I wanted most at the time, given my needs and budget. Now, GM offers nothing I want, and I own a Ford. I'd have liked to have seen the Bonneville kept up to date and priced reasonably, but neither happened.

    *Yeah, Chrysler has been so innovative that IT is the one that survives only because of a Government bail out and incredible rebate program (Buy a car, get a check!) and it is the one now owned and ran by....Daimler of Germany.

    The Cobalt is a fine car. Would that other GM cars were designed as well.
    I agree with you as to engines, but I doubt the average potential buyer of a Cobalt cares, though.
  • avemanaveman Posts: 122
    does anyone know the aerodynamic drag coefficent of the cobalt coupe verses the sedan. Any comments would be appreciated. I am trying to decide which model is best for me. The coupe already seems to have a weight advantage of about 200 pounds. I am curious if the coupe also has an aero advantage.I liked the view out of the sedan. If the sight lines out of the coupe are acceptable I may go that way.
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