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Why is Haynes so slow to put out new manuals?

bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
edited March 25 in Dodge
It seems like every time I buy a new vehicle, I have to wait another year or two before Haynes has the maintenance manual available for that vehicle. We currently have a '98 Dodge Intrepid which we leased new. Since '98 was the first year of the current genereation of Intrepids, I had to wait until 2000 before Haynes had a manual available for this car. Now that we're getting ready to purchase a Mazda MPV, I checked the manual availability and sure enough, Haynes doesn't have a manual for the 2000 and newer MPV's. Being in the fourth model year of the current model, you'd think by now they'd have a manual available for this van. Why are they so stinkin' slow about making these manuals available? Are there any good alternatives? I hate Chilton's manuals because their books don't cover just one model, they cover several so they end up being not specific enough. The factory manuals are way too expensive. I'm not paying $90-$100 for a manual. Any suggestions?

Comments

  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    bottgers,
    To kind of explain how it works, publishing companies make contracts with the manufacturers, how much they spend and what the contract states, determines when they get the information to compile into a manual.
    Companies like Alldata and Mitchell pay to have the information first.
    Helm and Bentley have contracts with the manufacturers to print the information for the factory manuals.
    So, if you look at who will have the info first, it would go something like this.
    First, Helm and Bentley.
    Next, Alldata, Mitchell and Motor.
    Next, would be Chilton and following up would be Haynes.
    That being said, AlldataDIY subscriptions are available for your vehicle in one year subscriptions. It covers all information for one vehicle, for one year.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    for photos, confirming the step-by-step, etc. and for that you need the car, and time to work on it, before going to print. if they have a smaller operation than Mitchell and Alldata, that takes longer. the likelihood that a brand new car will be dropping bolts and burning up ball joints in its first year is rather small, so it is probably not a major hack-off factor for the Haynes customer base.

    there was a manual not long after I bought my 2000 explorer, which is fundamentally identical to the 1999 except for a fender wrinkle here and there, so I benefited from everybody else's year of waiting while the editorial work proceeded. the bumper-to-bumper warranty on the car means that frankly, I didn't need the furshlugginer manual except for reading on those nights I had trouble getting to sleep.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    But wouldn't you think Haynes would have a manual by now for the MPV? It's currently in its fourth model year. How stinkin' long does it take? Is it possible to buy a manual from one of the other companies? I really don't want to subscribe for a year to anything. I'd just like to pay my $12-$15 for a manual and be done with it.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    bottgers,
    Those days of purchasing a manual of any kind for $20 and having it have any kind of information, is just about over.
    Honda, BMW, Acura and a slough of other manufacturers are now not allowing comapnies to print information to the DIYer.
    ASA (an automotive association) is currently battling with the govt to force the manufacturers to provide the information in a bill that is called "Right to repair". While they have made little progress, there has been steps to open the information to the independant shops.

    Trying to put this without sounding like a grumpy, but unless the DIYer supports the companies that are interested in supplying quality factory equivelant information, then you are on your own when the cutrate companies can't supply information until 5 years after the vehicle is out.

    Now, my personal preferance [This is MY personal preferacne and should in now way reflect endorsing or condemning any one company]
    in manuals go like this.
    OEM (some are Helm, some Bentley, some their own)
    Alldata [no surprise there]
    Helm
    Mitchell
    Bentley
    Motor
    Chilton
    And whatever is left.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    Wouldn't it be considered supporting these companies when we buy the manuals? Also, the companies producing the manuals don't really need anything from the manufacturers in order to make the manuals. Haynes does their own tear down and reassembly to come up with the procedures for their manuals. The other companies could do this as well.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    that the DIYer should avoid has been started.

    although it probably won't hurt them any. after all, nobody can build a Heathkit any more, either. that comes from nobody building them when they were last availiable at the end of the 80s.

    / mumble and grumble on / ...
  • vidtechvidtech Posts: 212
    that poor lady is doing the best she can with her smith-corona typewriter.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    put a ribbon in it! ;)
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    So far, the only thing I've been able to find is Alldata offers a 1 year subscription for DIYers for $24.95. Whenever you need to look up a procedure, you log onto the their web site and look it up on their site. Sounds pretty cool, but having to pay $24.95 every year would get a bit pricy. Of course I guess there's nothing stopping anyone from printing out all the info from their site to make your own manual. Of course after the first year, you'd lose the ability to get updates.

    Nobody I've contacted makes a manual for the newer MPV's. One place I haven't checked with yet is Mazda parts. I'll check with them tomorrow to see if I can order a factory manual. I'd rather just have a manual and be done with it. The only thing with the factory manuals is every one I've ever checked on before has been pricey.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    bottgers,
    What manual do you get updates every year??

    Sounds pretty cool, but having to pay $24.95 every year would get a bit pricy.
    Well, let's look at it this way......
    A factory manual runs in the neighborhood of $100+, then you pay for annual updates for TSB and recall information. So, it is a wash.
    No matter what you buy, if you want the full deal, you pay annually.
    These folks who think they are getting any kind of information from a $20 paper manual are fooling themsleves.
    A case in point, there are several TSBs and "special pollicies" on Chevrolet diesels. None of the paper manuals cover the TSBs and recalls. So folks with the paper manuals may go thru the diagnostics several times and still have the problems, when if they had the full deal with TSB and speical policy information, they would save alot of steps and headaches.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    I don't know what TSB's are, but I've used nothing but Haynes manuals for my last several vehicles and I've never had a problem using any of them.

    I just found out from Alldata their system runs about 1 to 1 1/2 years behind any particular model year. Their service manual for the 2003 MPV won't be posted on their site until next year. I guess the only option is to buy a factory manual unless I want to wait. It doesn't look like a $20 manual will ever be available for the MPV.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    also known as "oops, we found something interesting here...". if you've ever had something that couldn't get fixed, and couldn't get fixed, and COULDN'T get fixed... and then all of a sudden the dealer fixes it... odds are a TSB was issued on a bad part, screwed-up policy, Test From Hell, etc. that covered it. sometimes the TSB will implement a recall, other times it's just stuff they learned as time goes by.

    if you fix stuff for a living, TSBs make it more reliable a living with less negative referrals.
  • tbonertboner Posts: 402
    The alldata only costs 24.xx for the first year, I believe renewals and additional vehicles are only $14.95.

    That's what I paid to add my 2000MY MPV to my existing account.

    TB
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    I didn't notice that. If that's the case, it may be worth it to subscribe. The other problem is that they don't have the info for the '03 MPV posted yet. I suppose I could subscribe using the the '02 model's info as the two model years are almost identical.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    Have you used other maintenance manuals? If so, how does Alldata DIY compare? Are the procedures explained well? Is it complete, meaning does it cover every possible type of maintenance that could be performed on the vehicle?
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    Don't get me wrong, the DIY manuals are fine, if you are just doing basic stuff.
    In this day and age, there really isn't much "basic" stuff left.
    Look at the cheaper manual's wiring diagrams sometime.
    Look for test procedures and see what you get.
    There are very few publishers that print or provide factory information in a package that the DIYer can afford.
    Helm and Bentley and other factory information is updated quarterly.
    AlldataPro and Mitchell1 are updated continually.
    AlldataDIY is updated quarterly.

    One thing to consider, if you buy a manual, in a year, tehre will may be 100 pages that have been updated to different procedures.
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,028
    Almost everything I do on a vehicle is minor stuff, i.e. fluid and filter changes, removing and reinstalling brake parts, rotating tires, changing plugs, etc. You'll never find me in the garage changing timing belts, tearing down an engine, or troubleshooting a major electrical problem. I just don't have the tools, or the time to get that involved. That's why the $20 manuals are ideal for me. It's not worth it to me to spend $100+ on a factory shop manual just for changing fluids and filters.
  • tbonertboner Posts: 402
    I like the alldatadiy better. I ordered to get the electrical information for my 87 LeSabre when I installed a remote start. The 24.95 saved me hours trying to find the information.

    I never lose the manual, and I can print the pages and then throw them away after my greasy little hands have perused the pages.

    Hope this helps.

    TB
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 1,542
    tboner brought up a very good aspect of the on-line manuals. No book to get in your way, print out the page you need, tape it to the hood and if it goes with the vehicle, you're not out anything.
This discussion has been closed.