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Buick LaCrosse

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Comments

  • rwisemrwisem Posts: 96
    Yes, I agree that the Lacrosse is essentially the next generation Intrigue, and I agree with Autoextremist that it should be sold only in CXS form as one of the "keepers" in a pared down GM line-up. Let Chevrolet cover the under 25K sedan market with the Malibu and Impala.

    While both of my Intigues (I had a '98 as well as the '01) were well put together and dependable, the model in general had quality issues, which was a shame. GM built it in one of their worst plants. The Lacrosse, on the other hand, is built in GM's best plant. This may be the single biggest improvement over the Olds.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    Why there are 3 trims (CX and CXL and a CXS) is unknown.

    Should be 2 trims, CX and CXL and both should have the 3.6L standard. 3800 should not be sold in Buicks but if they are I could see it only in the CX as a entry value leader model. I hear the 3800 is going into the Lucerne which doesn't seem right to me.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    I could not agree more. The 3.6 should be standard period.

    The fact that the Lucerne getting the 3.8 is an absolute joke. A car that will be close to $30k and have the 3.8 with only 195hp is inexcusable. The 3.6 should be standard, period.
  • mrrogersmrrogers Posts: 391
    My wife and I drove a CXS before she bought her CXL. My personal opinion is that the CXS is too stiff to drive on Northern frost heaved roads. If you live in the South or the West it may be okay, but please fly before you buy. I was also concerned that the seventeen inch rim/tire combination would not hold up to the chuck holes in the roads. My friend has already ruined a rim and a tire on his BMW 325iX shod with seventeen inch rims and tires.
    Concerning the 3.6 engine, I think it is too soon to put an unproven engine in a serious car like a Buick. Cadillac builds the least reliable GM cars. Let those people work out the bugs before the engine damages the Buick brand.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I've seen no statistics that say Cadillac builds the least reliable GM cars. None at all. Care to share?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,079
    The 3.8 hasn't been a joke for me in 3 cars. It pulls the full weight of a LeSabre nicely. I'm surprised the smooth 4-speed transmission didn't get criticized also...

    Check the 2000 rpm horsepower and torque for both engines in the following links someone provided in GM's Return of Might discussion:

    3.6 LaCrosse: http://www.media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/2005%20HPT%20Library/HFV6/LaCros- se/2005_36L_LY7_Buick_LaCrosse.pdf

    3800 LaCrosse: http://www.media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/2005%20HPT%20Library/90%20Deg%20- V6/2005_3800_L26_Buick.pdf

    As I read those graphs at 2000 the horsepower is about 80 for each engine and the torque (more meaningful) is about 220 lb-ft in both. At 3000 rpm the horsepower in 3800 may be slightly hgiher than the 3.6. Torque at 3000-4000 may be slightly higher for the 3800.

    Most of my perception of my car is leaving a stop sign or light in moderate driving. RPMs typical are 2000-3000. Torque at 3000-4000 may be slightly higher for the 3800.

    My LeSabres do this handily. While I probably would enjoy a V8 that I have to work to keep from spinning tires if I'm not care, I find the 3800 very competent.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    I have no problem with the 3.8, it is a very good powerplant. It was in my GP.

    I just do not think launching a new model with a 195hp V6 at $30k is going to cut it.

    I can not think of any other car that the Lucerne will compete with that has so few hp. I know that this car is not about flat out acceleration, but people will notice that the Avalon... has much more power.

    The 3.6 would make a much more attractive base engine. Mark my words - the press will slam the Lucerne for only having 195hp. Right or wrong consumers remember negative reviews.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Here is where there are many opinions on what a car should ride and handle like. When the Regal came out it was calibrated to ride like a Buick of old with some handling capability. It got awful reviews from the press and Consumer Reports on a floaty ride. The car was then tightened down a bit and was acceptable to the press. BUT got a great number of complaints from the older drivers (60+) that wanted the ride of the old rear wheel drive Buicks. Cannot satisfy everyone.

    The CX and CXS were tuned to give a slightly better ride than the Camry and kept most of the Camry handling characteristics. Most consumers would not be able to tell the difference. Also has better ride than the Accord. (remember that Accord and Camry have a huge part of midsize market) The Accord handles slightly better than the base LaCrosse.

    The CXS rides about like the ES330 (same suspension as Camry with different spring and bushing rates) but the CXS has better handling. The ES330 rolls more over undulating roads. CXS has better handling than the Camry, Accord and ES330. The ride is much smoother than A6, Passat.

    It is very hard to get both a good ride and great handling. The Germans compromise a smooth ride for better handling. They also tend to put very expensive suspensions in their cars to try and get both. If you live down south you will find that the ride is acceptable in these vehicles because you do not get the sharp impacts of the north.

    There are very few cars being made now that have a better impact harshness than the LaCrosse in the mid size market. I would say the ES330 is one. The ES330 is a luxury car with no pretenses of sporty handling. The Camry is another. Any one know of any others? I have not driven the Ford 500 nor it's twin.

    Todays drivers are demanding better handling and also bigger wheels for appearance. Handling and bigger tires go together but you lose the soft ride.
  • verdi942verdi942 Posts: 304
    great engines - right up there with the old MOPAR "slant six". Durable, trouble-free with plenty of torque, real-world adequate power AND phenomenal MPG, no small consideration these days. It needs what the 3.6 has - aluminum block, overhead cams, variable displacement - all to get another 50+ HP and make it competitive in the marketplace.
  • mrrogersmrrogers Posts: 391
    The April 2005 Consumer Reports annual Auto issue lists the reliability of the Deville and SRX as below average. The CTS and Escalade are average. The STS and XLR are too new for a rating. Last year's issue had the Regal with a very reliable rating.
  • verdi942verdi942 Posts: 304
    All the more reason that the CXS in the mid $20K's would be a world beater, just as the recent Regal [before all the de-contenting after '02] was [though it never sold as well as it should have, IMO] in its time.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    What decontenting are you talking about?

    ABS brakes?
  • yurakmyurakm Posts: 1,345
    I have two Regal GS - 2000 and 2004.

    From 2001 performance shift mode was deleted. From 2003 heavy decontent: side mirrors became unheated. The left side mirror used to be auto-dimming, no more. Magnasteer gone, as well as a lot of small things: The seats are less soft than used to be (less foam under the leather). Passenger side door lock was deleted. Change holder in console disappeared. The shifter speed indicator used to be illuminated; no more.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    You got most of them. Most people would not know unless they had the older car as you did.
  • Yes I'll share. I'm a quality consultant and currently work for the federal government. The man I work for has owned 4 Cadillacs in the last 10 years. They all were complete pieces of .... He just bought a new SRX (very nice looking car) and it has been in the shop twice in the first month. His last car, an Eldorado, was in the shop at least once a quarter for the 4 years he owned it. He kept the records. All of them. The other two he owned were not very reliable either but like you he loves his Caddy. He just accepts the reality that they are nice cars that just are not reliable.

    I’ve been a victim of this brand loyalty also. I HAD been a VW and Audi loyalist for the last 15 years. Now I own and love my Buick. That is what poor quality does some times. It drives loyal owners away.

    Oh, and take a look at any quality magazine that rates reliability for cars and you will see Cadillac at the very bottom of the list. Consumer reports did say they have one good model this past year however.

    We have a saying in the quality business, “Hope is not a method.” Cadillac must be hoping their customers don’t get tiered of the repair shop.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    the germans are known for providing both a very comfortable ride and good handling. i take issue with the lacrosse offering a much smoother ride than the passat.

    the problem with the lacrosse is that the top model gets in the low $30k price range where more desirable cars can be had.
  • verdi942verdi942 Posts: 304
    I had a '99 LS and still own an '02 LS. After '02 or '03, no more superb Monsoon radio available. What's interesting is that the inferior Chevy Impala twin sells like crazy - 250,000 last year alone. I know, it's cheaper, has more dealers, but still...
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I guess the definition for smoother needs to be defined.

    Tire impacts/isolation- Small inputs (tar strips in the highway) are felt thru the steering wheel and seat. These are perceived as a whack, whack, whack. Larger diameter tires really effect this and lower rate stab bar bushings and shock valving mitigate this. However this "loosens" up the handling.

    Larger impacts such as potholes are more total vehicle movement with quick inputs to the car. The tires tend to hit the jounce bumpers and large bangs and car movement results. Higher spring rate springs and stiffer jounce bumpers mitigate this and handling can be improved but the car feels stiffer which worsens the next ride input.

    Undulating roads cause the car to float. this is more like wowwee's in the road. You get a let of head toss and can cause car sickness if bad enough. Here stiffer springs and higher shock valving rates mitigate this. Again isolation and impacts are now worse. If you have low rate valving for the isolation the car tends to porpoise up and down on these roads continuously for a couple cycles.

    I only drove the Passat once about 4 years ago so you may be right but at the time I felt it had that great german handling with precise steering and decent "ride". The car did not float as much as the CXS but the Passat did have more impact harshness and less isolation. Now these were done in back to back testing on controlled roads. Others may have a different opinion but that was the consensus of the group.

    Where you live really does sway your opinion on ride. In the south (and Germany) cars like the Audi and VW's are very acceptable for ride overall especially with the undulating roads that are the worse you get. In the north they get a bit rougher on the broken concrete and huge tar strips.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    living in the upper midwest i can stipulate that some roads are in pretty pathetic shape. in wisconsin we have two seasons, winter and road construction.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    The radio experts tell us that RDS is not taking off. It is not expanding to other areas and stations that do not have it due to the huge initial capital outlay. But who knows, with XM and Sirius exponentially growing the old style radio stations may have to do it to compete.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Lots of people love the 3.8L. It has been around forever and is durable and proven. Issue is it is noisy. the 3.6 is a modern powerplant that is designed to be quiet and more refined. The 3.6 does cost a whole heck of a lot more.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,079
    >Issue is it is noisy

    Have you driven one? Is it noisy in a LeSabre? Is it noisy in a LaCrosse?
    I don't find it noisy.
  • yurakmyurakm Posts: 1,345
    Most people would not know unless they had the older car as you did.

    A famous Russian satirist said that Soviet shoes are great and people would wear them with pleasure would not they see foreign-made boots.

    Do you know that you almost literally quoted him?

    P.S. That was not about footwear, but about USSR.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    noise is not an issue when cruising but it sounds like farm machinery when accelerating.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Yes I have driven every Buick. Also compared to many other vehicles. OHV technology combined with old engine technology just adds up to a non refined sound. Compare to Camry 4 and 6's. Then listen in a Lexus with the increased body noise enhancements. For the LaCrosse there were many improvements on the 3.8 to improve noise such as a structural oil pan. It is much better in the LaCrosse and most would find it acceptable.

    But I am glad many find it a great engine. It is. Especially for the cost.
  • mrrogersmrrogers Posts: 391
    It is my understanding that the Regal GS with the supercharged engine has a heavy duty version of the transmission that is in the 3.8 versions of the LaCrosse. Since the 3.8 is the most durable engine, I wonder if GM should put the heavy duty transmission in so they could offer the most durable drivetrain. If they did not want to make it standard because of cost, maybe they should bundle it in a trailer towing package with a transmission cooler, heavy duty alternator, etc.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Where did you get the data on the HD trans in the 3.8 LaCrosse? I was not aware of that. May be true but please let me know where you got the info. I do know that only one RPO code is now used for both trans.

    HD trans is needed due to the HP increase of the supercharged engine. GM trans are pretty durable.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Just checked the Buick site and it confirms that the HD trans is used on the 240 hp 3.6L only.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,079
    What site has that information? That would be interesting to see.
  • mrrogersmrrogers Posts: 391
    I apologize if my post was confusing. I was trying to say that the Regal GS has (had) a heavy duty transmission, and it would be nice if it were offered in the 3.8 versions of the LaCrosse.
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