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Buick LaCrosse

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Comments

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,370
    Each to his own opinion. Thanks.
    :) ;)
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I could easily see a Camry (especially a 4 cyl) owner test a base CX and realize that for about the same money (maybe less with incentives) he or she could be driving a nice 6 cyl LaCrosse. With a very nice interior and quality to match, there is little doubt the LaCrosse will win over some new to GM buyers, could never say that about the car it replaced, especially the Century.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    after six months or so I dont see how the car can be considered a poor performer. I think the biggest problem with this car has been the pricing. I dont think anyone who is objective can say this car looks worse, inside or out, than any camry or accord. I find it funny that almost every review I have seen on this car has comments about the fake looking wood when every car in this price range has faux wood. In fact, I think the Lacrosse has rather nice looking faux wood. There is an undeniable double standard when it comes to rating american cars. I will say the car can be knocked for having a 4 speed auto or being overpriced. But in terms of styling and quality it is very competitive.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,370
    >I will say the car can be knocked for having a 4 speed auto

    On that point I disagree. The 4-speed auto trans in our Buicks has been perfected matched to the performance of the engine giving a very capable car. Five speeds aren't needed, especially if they mean a higher cost or higher failure rate in the transmission over 150K. I saw several Mercedes with 4-matic on their trunk lid. Must have been okay for a 320...
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Um... 4matic means its an AWD model. And its actually not good enough for Mercedes, as all Mercedes models use at least 5 forward speeds, with the majority that are coupled to newer engines using 7.

    ~alpha
  • mrrogersmrrogers Posts: 391
    People bad mouth the LaCrosse by saying it does not have the features of a "real" luxury car like the Lexus ES330. The Lexus has the dual overhead cam engine and the five speed automatic. The LaCrosse CXL must make due with an overhead valve engine and a four speed automatic. Funny thing is that the ES330 mileage is 21 city/ 29 highway, and the LaCrosse CXL comes in at 20 city/29 highway. Not much difference. The Buick four speed is much smoother. The Lexus five speed loves to upshift, but hates to downshift. You can minimize the problem by driving in 4th or 3rd gear in city driving, but why should you have to?
    The Lexus has a cam belt that must be changed at regular intervals. If the cambelt breaks, the valves contact the pistons. The LaCrosse CXL has a chain to drive the camshaft. I have never heard of a chain failing. The LaCrosse has a light to tell you when to change your oil. I have never heard of a 3800 GM V6 having sludge problems. The ES330 has no light to tell you when to change your oil. They have had some sludge problems. Toyota has tried to tell more owners that they need to change their oil more often per the severe maintenance intervals rather than the longer standard intervals.
    Mrs. Rogers drove the ES330, LaCrosse CXL, and Lexus RX330 for 24 hour test drives, and she bought the LaCrosse. The car was deliveried in January, and she loves it. She thanks me for insisting that she drive all three cars, because now she has no doubt that she made the right choice.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The 3.3L in the ES330 has not had a sludge problem, that was the 3.0L engine. The 3.3 is based on that engine, but they are fairly different. The LaCrosse CXL doesnt do much worse in EPA MPG than the ES330, but it is handicapped by 25 fewer horses, and according to Consumer Reports, needs 1.1 seconds longer to hit 60 than does the ES330. But then of course, CR must be anti-American cars, correct? (They also observed real-world fuel economy higher by 3 MPG in the ES330). The LaCrosse CXL does not offer stabilty control, and ABS isnt even standard (on a car with a base price of $26K). The LaCrosse does not offer side impact airbags that protect the thorax in ANY trim level. The LaCrosse has significantly lower resale value than the ES, a shoter warranty, and a more limited roadside assistance program. Since we're pointing out differences....

    I'm certainly not saying that the ES is the car for everyone. But I am saying that simply because the LaCrosse was the car for Mrs. Rogers (must we call her this? Is she 85?) doesnt mean that its necessarily a better car than the ES. [Edmunds.com's test has shown that the LaCrosse doesnt really compete well in its own class, never mind that of the near-luxury makes]

    ~alpha
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I have not compared the ES330 to the CXS in about a year but when I did I could not touch a ES330 for under $35000 and some were close to $40,000 ( those with the in dash map were more). I visited a number of dealers in the detroit area. I cannot see how they can be compared. I think you can get a loaded CXS for close to $30,000 with dealer dealing and incentives. That is a $5000 difference and I think the CXS had a number of features you could not get on the Lexus like back up sensors, remote start. Of course the Lexus had a nicer interior ( but not as much difference as I expected) and a 5 speed.

    Am I wrong or is this a Detroit area thing? (no employee discount on either) Seems like the pricing was closer to a Camry XLE.
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    The ES330 may not be selling for less than invoice minus a $2000 rebate like some cars, but they are discounted enough in many areas now that you can certainly get into one for well under $35,000.
    Full base MSRP is under $33,000 before options with no discount at all. After discounts, you could get some nice options and still pay little more than that and maybe less.
    With it's good resale value, there are also decent leases available on the ES330.
  • mrrogersmrrogers Posts: 391
    Lexus has never really said what changes they made to eliminate the sludge problem. Maybe their lawyers won't let them for fear of a costly and image damaging recall. I read that a larger hose was installed in the PVC system, but that hardly seems significant. The reason I ask is that I find it curious that the new Avalon has an engine based on the Four Runner V6, not the 3.3 engine in the ES330 and the Camry. Perhaps Lexus and Toyota will phase out the 3.3 because the oil gel problem can not be designed out? Just a thought.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,370
    >Um...

    What is the "Um" at the beginning of your statement for?

    As to Mercedes having 5 or 7 or 9 speeds, that's not really germane to the adequacy of the T65E four-speed. In my cars it is a perfect match for the engine's broad range of torque and shifts smoothly and doesn't fail early in life as some other company's trannies seem to do.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Did they reduce the MSRP on the ES330 from the ES300? Around here I know that with dealer "required" add ons such as chrome wheels you could not touch one for under $35000. I need to visit a Lexus dealer.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I'd rather have a good 4 speed auto than a crappy 5 speed. At least I know the GM 4 speed will run well and last.

    I still think this car is a great value on the low end and even at the high end is not that bad once you factor in incentives now in place. I just wish GM would MSRP cars closer to transaction prices and loose the "incentive pads".
  • fredvhfredvh Posts: 853
    You are right. At least here in the midwest you cannot find an ES330 for under 35k. They all come over 35k MSRP. Technically you could order one but it would probably take 2 months or more.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    There have been no reports of sludging in the 3.3L Toyota engine to date. That engine is primarily a stop-gap measure that Toyota used to power its increasingly larger offerings until the new engine family that started with the 4Runner's high torque, low-rev 4.0L V6 could be fully developed. The 4Runner's engine family, as we've seen, has already been introduced in 3.5L form in the 280 horse new Avalon, as well as 3.0L form, in the 245 horse Lexus GS300. The new Lexus IS will also feature a 2.5L variant producing about 205 horses, as well as a retuned 3.5L producing 300+. Belief is that the 3.3L will be slowly phased out, first with the next generation Lexus ES to debut in Spring 2006. Even though the architecture of the 3.3L dates back to the early 90s, it is still quite a good deal more refined (and powerful) than the normally aspirated GM 3800, which dates back to 1962, I believe?.

    Really, GM's 3.6L DOHC is a spectacular engine, and I stongly feel that had GM been able to provide this motor in the LaCrosse CXL (the volume selling model), the press and consumers might be telling a different story. However, GM sealed its own fate by having the CXL range in price from 26-31K and not offering that powerplant. Similarly, the new Lucerne should have the 3.6L as its base, and not a 195hp variant of the 3800 as its standard- the rest of the car LOOKS phenomenal, it was a pleasure to view at the New York Auto Show.

    To be clear, I think the LaCrosse is a good car with strong potential. However, GM betrayed the design with a poor choice of base engine (and restricting the better engine as optional only on the top model), not offering side thorax bags, choosing style over function with regards to rear seat headroom, and not offering Navagation. The biggest offense, though, is the incredibly ambitious pricing scheme that demands $26K MSRP on a volume selling model with ABS even standard. Naturally, this will result in high rebates, and poorer resale values. Similarly, the ES330 is far from perfect, and that otherwise excellent vehicle (with perhaps the best sub 40 grand interior in the industry) is let down by a dumpy transmission that doesnt think quickly enough in harder throttle applications, as well being suspended just a little too softly.

    imidazol97- "Um" is a vocalized pause that simply means I was trying to think what to say. I was going to use the old "When you ASSUME, you make an..." saying, since assume is what you did regarding the Benz transmissions. However, I didnt use that saying, as I thought it might be considered rude.

    ~alpha
  • 307web307web Posts: 1,033
    They do not sell for full MSRP anymore. You probably are not going to see an ES330 on a lot with zero options, but even if the sticker says over $35,000 with options, they are available for less.
    You can can always buy from another dealer if your local dealer says they won't discount.
    Check Carsdirect.com for prices in different areas and even other states if there is only one dealer in your area.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,370
    >I was going to use the old "When you ASSUME, you make an..." saying, since assume is what you did regarding the Benz transmissions. However, I didnt use that saying, as I thought it might be considered rude.

    Looks to me like it served the same purpose.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    "I stongly feel that had GM been able to provide this motor in the LaCrosse CXL (the volume selling model), the press and consumers might be telling a different story"

    I do not understand the need for the 3.6 in the CXL.

    The CXS is a CXL with the 3.6L engine. Does add needed 17" wheels/tires/susp upgrades, dual exhaust and foglamps. Oh yea includes every ones desired ABS. The CXL is higher volume because of its price point and, as can be read above, many buyers appreciaton of the 3.8L.

    You will see in the future that side air bags will start being replaced by the new lower reaching curtain air bags except on the very expensive vehicles.

    Navigation is still too expensive ($1500) and the market is showing it. The Camry offers it but it is running at less than 2% penetration. I am sure it is running higher on the ES330 but there goes your price over $38000. Most of the public do not feel they need it especially at the price it is being offered at. If it ever gets down to $500 then it will sell.
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Posts: 1,058
    Did he really drive a LaCrosse??? Maybe GM paid him some big $$$$$$.

    Just kidding. That is by far the best review I have seen for the LaCrosse. My brother has a 4 cylinder Camry and I never thought it was soo great. Very bland and boring.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    ABS should be standard on ALL Buicks. The Rendezvous base is also missing ABS. For near LUX, there is no excuse for that, I agree.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Thats a great review of the LaCrosse CX vs Camry LE V6.Did it appear in Automobile magazine? If not, where?

    Two points, re: the Camry vs. LaCrosse- 1) the Camry has 12-15 months of life left, where as the LaCrosse has what? 48-60? 2) Although the 5 speed auto and ABS were mentioned, the Camry LE V6 has several other items of significance standard that the LaCrosse doesnt. Among them: Split folding rear seat, 10 way power adjustable drivers seat, alloy wheels, steering wheel audio controls, and electroluminescent instrumentation. Buick does provide a telescopic steering wheel, however.

    Also, you state: "You will see in the future that side air bags will start being replaced by the new lower reaching curtain air bags except on the very expensive vehicles." I dont think this is true, what evidence do you have to point toward this? I feel that lower-reaching curtains may materialize, but they'd have to go down to the bottom seat cushion to afford protection to the thorax/pelvis that is left completely exposed by the Buick's setup. The vehicles that score the best in the IIHS testing typically feature a seat-mounted bag as well as a head curtain.

    ~alpha
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Due to copyright issues, we can't just copy and paste articles from other sites. I've asked the poster to post a link to it instead ...
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    near lux is not $23000.

    About 5 years ago ABS was standard on just about every GM car including the Cavalier. Someone was hired in and said GM cars have to much content compared to the competition (was true). Huge studies were made and content was taken out. At that time the Japanese (Camry, Accord, etc.) had ABS as optional only. Also southern climates w/o snow seemed to not want to buy the ABS. ABS was then made optional.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Sorry, came in an internal memo. No link. Maybe it was made up!!! Just kidding.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    "Buick LaCrosse: Vying for Import Buyers and Measuring Up to the Task.
    Automobile"

    Yes, everyone is waiting for the new Camry. I will not be surprised if they put some personality into it. No doubt it will be quite the contender.

    You are right with the content, but if you were to do a content to content price comparison pricing would be surprising close. Most of the items you mentioned are available on the LaCrosse, just packaged differently.

    On the airbags I can only reference what internal safety experts, and this is their job, tell us. I cannot any longer check what vehicles have what type of airbags but those with both the SIAB and curtain may not have the lower coverage curtains.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    "Yes, everyone is waiting for the new Camry. I will not be surprised if they put some personality into it".

    They said this new Camry was suppose to have personality. I've never driven a duller midsize car. Aside from extreme Toyota loyalists, I doubt anyone is "waiting" for the new Camry".
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    vanman1 said in part:

    **Aside from extreme Toyota loyalists, I doubt anyone is "waiting" for the new Camry".***

    Oh, I imagine the Toyota dealers are, and with great anticipation. Would that Buick dealers were as excited about getting the Lucerne (or were about the LaCrosse).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Oh, they are excited. They were also excited for the LaCrosse. All the ones that saw it before the public loved it. Also no new cars for 5 years makes anybody excited.

    The LaCrosse is a good looking car. Just is not over the top like the 300 is. The mid size market big sellers are conservative (camry, Taurus/500, accord) as are most of the buyers. It is a conservative design that will sell well. (outsold total Century and Regal retail sales from a year ago in March).

    Chrysler has always had more over the top styling due to its smaller, more niche like volumes. The "semi" looking Dodge ram when it came out was one of those love it or hate it designs. Same with the PT Cruiser.
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