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Buick LaCrosse

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Comments

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,182
    >Lesabre is a big fleet seller
    I've not seen any Enterprise stickers on LeSabres. What rental uses them?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Lutz never said that Buick is superior to Lexus. He said that he wanted Buick to be lower cost than Lexus with Lexus attributes like ride/styling and interior refinement. Yes, he does expect Buick to be a lower cost competitor to Lexus. This was stated only a few years ago and it will take time to get there. The LaCrosse starts at more than $10k cheaper than the ES330 but it does have many of the same attributes. Buick was once a premium marque and the aim is to get there again. Hopefully the Lucerne will be another step in that direction.

    By the way Mr. Lutz says a lot of flamboyant things. He says what he thinks and maybe that is not normal for an auto exec but it is what he believes. Maybe he would be better off keeping things to his chest untill fruition but it sure makes the press and public talk a lot more about GM!

    In the meantime I would use pricing/size/features and style to pick competitors. That is what customers do. I would compare a CX/CXL to Camry XLE's with 4 and V6 and the CXS to lower level ES330's. Using actual transaction prices the LaCrosse does very well, if you care about price!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I disagree on the engine. Buick will sell a lot of 3.8's to retail. Whether you agree or not with the buyers there is a huge market out there who love the 3.8L. That is one reason why it is still alive at Buick. Now they may not be the 40 year olds that Buick wants to reach but the V8 and the LaCrosse 3.6L will satisfy them. There are still a lot of folks in their 60's/70's/80's who have a lot of money that will buy the 3.8.

    Buicks challenge is to do what Olds did not do. Keep their traditional older market and bring in younger folks.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I have driven my parents 2004 LeSabre and while the thing drives like a boat, I have to admit the 3800 is not bad, even compared with the 3.5 twin cam in my Intrigue. I think most Lucernes will be V8s though unless GM charges some crazy premium for it. I will certainly take a look, I'd love a V8.

    johnclineii : Avalon is not a Lexus though and the cars are in different price ranges. I don't see how saying Buick was a budget Lexus invites comparison to a Toyota in another price class?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    vanman1, will your parents buy the Lucerne and would they get the V8? or would they be satisfied with the 3.8?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,182
    What LeSabre and which wheels/tires.

    16 inch Michelin on a Limited Celebration or touring suspension?
    Or 15 inch on General supersoft, easy rolling tires for gas mileage and relatively long tire life?

    The two drive completely different.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    Don't know if they will buy a Lucerne, the LeSabre is less than a year old so I don't know what their needs will be in a few years (they are getting up in years). I think my Dad would consider it though and I know he would go V8, he loves the old V8s and can never have enough power under the hood.

    I wish the 3.6L was the base for the Lucerne though. The car would seem more premium.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,182
    >The car would seem more premium.

    Was talking to owner of a Buick dealership of llooooonnnnnggg standing. The 3800 is far more dependable and powerful than many non GM drivers perceive. I'v often responded here about its great torque rating compared to even the 3.6 and other motors that people post up here as the favorite style of their choice. That strength in torque is where most people notice the quickness of their motor--in everyday driving at 2000-3500 rpm leaving stopsigns and stop lights.

    He wanted me to drive a LaCrosse since I'd wandered into the showroom to sit in the back of one. I found it slightly smaller than my LeSabres. Again it's a midsize car. I'll have to go sit in some other midsize cars like the Avalon and Camry and see how their back seat compares... The finish in the LaCrosse seemed great, other than I missed the carpet on the lower part of the rear doors. It just didn't look as detailed as my LeSabre Limiteds. I'll check for that in the Accord and Camry and Avalon when I brave the nasty sales staff next week one midday.

    I suspect his opinion mirrors the current GM management. I would expect to see the 3800 continue as a strong motor for a base level car. And I would expect the optional motors to attract the newer/younger buyers into Buicks.

    I do agree that optional motors in the base car would be a great way to go for others who want a choice, even if it's not much more if any cost effective as an option.
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    for over 1000 miles this week and was impressed. It was a rental car: base model with no options.

    The controls are well thought out and the seats comfortable. Cruise set at 80 gave 25.5 mpg.

    A UPS driver at a gas station asked "Does it drive as good as it looks?"
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I do like the 3800 and I would buy a car with one but, I prefer the 3.6L for the highway passing. No doubt, the 3800 is rock solid, it's proven itself 100x over. Best thing about it is it's cheap to maintain and efficient.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    and, unfortunately, going away fairly soon. It's my understanding the 3800 will not meet some coming emissions standards, and GM has no intention of modifying it again to meet them...
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    And here you see the conumdrum on the 3.8. All the people in the "know" like the mainstream auto press and the ones that drive the foriegn expensive OHC engines think the 3.8 is some awful, noisy, unreliable engine. Those who actually live with it and buy it love it.

    So Buick keeps the 3.8 to keep their traditional buyers happy and cost down but everyone else piles on it. It does not help though not to have at least a 5 speed even though with a torquey engine it is not as important as with the revvy 3.6L.

    Yes, I think you will see the 3.8 go away as the new models are introduced down the line.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I'm surprised the 3800 is still around. The newer 3.5L produces the same HP and the 3900 produces 40 more HP.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    But, that's the POINT. HP is not what makes cars get up and GO. It's what keeps them going. Torque is get up and go. And at that, the 3800 excels...
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Takes new tooling and you just do not retool the whole corporation at one time.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    62vette : But the 3500 and 3900 are all ready being made?

    johnclineii : True, 3800 torque is great.

    :)
  • bennycheckbennycheck Posts: 43
    The 3.8 is on the way out from what I've read. When they were developing the 3.6 there was a link on the Intrigue board all about it. It's called the Global 3.6L because it's going to be used in GM cars and trucks all over the world. I tried to find the link but it doesn't work any more. The artical stated that the motor can be mounted mid, front, or rear. Transverse or straight. In front wheel, rear wheel, and 4 wheel drive cars and trucks. The pix of it looked like nothing I've ever seen. My guess is once production is ramped up, you'll be seeing it in a lot more cars from GM. As for the 3.8, it's a great engine with lots of power on the low end but it's not as smooth as the newer DOHC engines. I have an '01 Regal with the 3.8 and an '00 Intrigue with the discontinued 3.5 DOHC engine. I'll take the 3.5 any day. They are both very good engines though. And if I should ever get a LaCrosse it would be the 3.6 or nothing. I think in a few years that will be the only engine you will see in the LaCrosse. Maybe not. Just my $.02.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I have always loved my Intrigue's 3.5L twincam, I have to imagine with the addition of VVT and other improvements, the 3.6L would have to be even better. The Saturn Aura looks to be the only GM sedan to get it as the standard V6.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I think GM has capacity issues with the 3.6 and that is why it isnt it more products.I dont know if they need to convert a US factory to build the global V6 or not, but my guess it production constraints are the reason it's not in the lucerne or more models of the lacrosse. I wouldnt expect the 4 speed auto and 3800 to last more than another model year. My guess is that the 3.5L with 210hp will replace the 3800 in both cars. I would like to think the 3.6 would be standard in the lucerne but I doubt that.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    No one has compared the LaCrosse to a Montego/Five Hundred. I drove the Premium Montego and the transmission (6 speed) felt wierd. When you pushed down on the pedal the engine raced like it was in neutral for a second then you started to accelerate. The salesman said it was "cold" yeah-right. That was it for the Montego accentuated by the stiff ride. The LaCrosse was like every LeSabre I've owned or rented. The 3.8 engine gave plenty of acceleration, the transmission shifted properly, and the ride was smooth and well controlled. I'll order a base model with the silver package, sunroof, and a few other options this winter. One problem is that you can't get leather in the CX (for '05) and the cloth upholstery while very nice looking is very light in color. The "grey" looks baby blue. It will probably get dirty very easily. The CX is really the best buy - currently about $20k. I've driven the new Avalon. It is $30-35k and has a richer interior than the LaCrosse but the information center in the middle of the dash is distracting and not necessary. It drives and handles like a smaller car than it is. Toyota "dependability" and "quality" is stressed but before anyone buys one he ought to check out the prices for servicing. The various "services" at 7500 miles, 15k miles etc. are very expensive. Frankly the LaCrosse rides better than the Avalon and feels like a bigger, heavier car. It will be a big step up from my 2001 Malibu and not much different from my '03 Deville.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    GM builds a lot of cars. It needs a lot of engines. It takes more than one engine line to build all those engines. As the new engine lines get tooled up the older lines will go away. And as long as they can use the old tooling the better off they are.

    Once an engine is delveloped in a architecture it takes a lot of time and money to put in another one. Therefore I doubt they will drop out the 3.8 and replace it with something else on the LaCrosse or Grand Prix. They will probably wait untill the replacement models come out.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    You would think, but that is NOT what I am hearing. The 3800 goes away sooner than the replacements for the LaCrosse and Grand Prix come out. Also, given GM's current difficulties, it cannot be assumed when or even if there will be replacement models for any line at Pontiac or Buick. It has been said that the number of models at Pontiac and Buick will be greatly reduced. ONLY Chevy and Cadillac will remain with a full range of models. The others will have far less overlap than in the past.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Not sure when the LaCrosse is being replaced but I can say if any cars get replaced at Buick it will be the LaCrosse and Lucerne. These are the type of cars that made Buick Buick and what the customers expect. With the GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealer link you will see little overlap in the future (maybe 4/5 years). GMC will take all the truck stuff(no more true trucks at Buick/Pontiac?). Pontiac will take the smaller cars and make them sporty (no Bonneville). Not sure who will get the crossovers and vans. Of course the definition of a crossover is so broad all 3 divisions could have 1 or 2 and they could be completely different. GMC more truck like, Buick more premium car like and Pontiac more sporty car like. All different architectures even.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    The 3800 is far more dependable and powerful than many non GM drivers perceive. I've often responded here about its great torque rating compared to even the 3.6 and other motors that people post up here as the favorite style of their choice. That strength in torque is where most people notice the quickness of their motor--in everyday driving at 2000-3500 rpm leaving stop signs and stop lights.

    no doubt the 3.8's strength is it's low end power, but the 3.6 beats the 3.8 at its own game. the 3.6 provides more power at ALL speeds. ditto for the 3.5s from honda, toyota and nissan.

    but the 3800 is durable and provides good gas mileage.

    i don't believe you'll find carpeting on the lower part of the doors on the cars you mentioned. i think it's a styling fad that has passed.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Either a styling fad whose time has passed, or more likely, the victim of cost cutting and most customers won't care...

    Heck, my Ford Five Hundred has not so much as a reflector, much less a light, on the interior of the doors. This used to be the hallmark of big cars. At least the 300 has a red reflector! :)
  • gogophers1gogophers1 Posts: 218
    Out of curiousity, what was the rental co. and in what class do they place it (e.g., midsize, standard, large)?

    I made reservations for a large car at Avis for next month and am hoping to get a LaCrosse but fear I'll be spending two weeks behind the wheel of an Impala.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    Rental companies are not a good way to judge.

    My buddy rented a full size and got a PT Cruiser. What a joke.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Buick did have a program earlier this year where the LaCrosse's were in the executive class level. I believe Buick is trying to keep the LaCrosse's from going into a general large car pool at rentals. Try the Emerald Isle at national and whatever the others call theirs.
  • dispencer1dispencer1 Posts: 489
    Anybody know about any changes to the 2006 LaCrosse -options, standard equipment, colors, etc.? I understand the GM is putting stability control on all cars and trucks as standard equipment. Is it scheduled for the LaCrosse. I want to order a 2006 and am curious.
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