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Buick LaCrosse



  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Thats one very good reason why Toyota and Honda dealers have such poor CSI (customer satisfaction Index) numbers. I believe Buick dealers are near the top of the CSI scores and always have been.

    Remember though that dealers are independent business's and the manufacturers have very little control over them. In fact the dealers sometimes can push the OEM's around.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I think you will see a shift in MSRP pricing with the '06 models. This employee pricing is the first step. I have read everywhere where GM will reduce MSRP's to salable levels. This makes sense to me. Get people into the showroom with the actual prices which will be lower/competitive and visible on the internet. Comparisons will be much easier. The problem today is that when you go to a site like Edmunds and they show the comparisons GM seems more expensive and it is hard to determine the incentive of the week.

    The press have asked why GM has not followed thru on all their vehicles with the lower value pricing. But how do you do a price sticker drop in the middle of a model year? One way is to call it employee pricing and send new window stickers to the dealers for all cars on the lots and this is what they did. I bet we will see lower stickers coming from the factory of '06.

    Again the LaCrosse is a mid size car. Yes, due to its architecture and styling it is not volume efficient. It is not a high roof car. It does have a longer overhang in the front. The Avalon is also more than a Camry. It is stretched in many dimensions and is larger than the Camry.
  • dan165dan165 Posts: 653
    From what I know, the Avalon is a stretched Camry platform. Anyone have a dimension comparison?

    I still think the Lucerne is more of a direct competitor than the LaCrosse. LaCrosse is to compete with Camry, Lucerne with Avalon. The LaCrosse starts in Camry 4 cyl territory, about $8-10K less than an Avalon.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Right here at Edmunds:'

    Camry is 189.2" long, but has a bigger trunk than Avalon, hard to figure that out.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    9" is a lot. The 300 is heavy for its length and what a long wheelbase. Looks like a very efficient architecture except for its weight.

    Avalon has about the same headroom as LaCrosse but an inch more shoulder room. Does not seem that much bigger except the legroom is 3" more.

    Avalon looks like the better packaging untill I can get a LaCrosse for under $20K and the Avalon is over $30K.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    No matter what Avalon LOOKS to be, until you've driven it, I wouldn't be comparing it to LaCrosse, Five Hundred or 300. Once upon a time, an automotive writer referred to Avalon as a "Japanese Buick," and the term seemed to stick. By that he meant it had a relatively unsporting suspension and boulevard ride.

    Interestingly, this month's Car and Driver compares midsize sedans and finds the Avalon to be best, with the LaCrosse well down the list....
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    The problem I have comparing the Avalon to the LaCrosse is that the LaCrosse / Allure starts at around C$25,000 and the Avalon starts at C$40,000. So they are clearly comparing cars in different classes. While they may be close in size, they are not in the same league which makes comparing them inconsitent with typical testing methodology and unfair to the Buick.

    The Lucerne will undoubtedly start around the same price as the LeSabre (around C$35,000) which will make comparing a V8 Lucerne and an Avalon a much better and fairer match. That's my 2 cents.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    and that it was comfortable, up scale, and other good things. Not that it was a bad vehicle. It was not after the enthusiest buyer which is a minority of the buying public.

    A lot more boring Accords/Camrys/Impalas/Regals/Centurys etc. are sold than sporty vehicles.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    Everyone who wants to put down the lacrosse is quick to compare it to the Avalon, but the reality is in terms of pricing, power and equipment the Lacrosse is closer to the camry. The Lucerne would be the logical competition for the Avalon due to it's space and price overlap. I would expect the Lucerne to start at $29K and go up to $38K which is right in the range of the Avalon. While the 3800 is the base engine, I wouldnt expect to see a lot of those in the hands of owners. My guess is that they stuck that engine in there to offer a low base price and a fleet model. Obviously the Lesabre is a big fleet seller and they werent going to give that up completely.

    Buick's biggest car should be compared to Toyota's biggest car. I cannot understand why no publication is willing to compare the Lacrosse to other high end midsize cars.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    None of this would have even started had not Mr. Lutz invited comparisons of the LaCrosse to the . . . Lexus!!! Yes, the Lexus. He said the LaCrosse was superior to Lexus...not us. So how anyone can complain when it is compared to the Camry based Avalon is beyond me....
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,693
    >Lesabre is a big fleet seller
    I've not seen any Enterprise stickers on LeSabres. What rental uses them?

    This message has been approved.

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Lutz never said that Buick is superior to Lexus. He said that he wanted Buick to be lower cost than Lexus with Lexus attributes like ride/styling and interior refinement. Yes, he does expect Buick to be a lower cost competitor to Lexus. This was stated only a few years ago and it will take time to get there. The LaCrosse starts at more than $10k cheaper than the ES330 but it does have many of the same attributes. Buick was once a premium marque and the aim is to get there again. Hopefully the Lucerne will be another step in that direction.

    By the way Mr. Lutz says a lot of flamboyant things. He says what he thinks and maybe that is not normal for an auto exec but it is what he believes. Maybe he would be better off keeping things to his chest untill fruition but it sure makes the press and public talk a lot more about GM!

    In the meantime I would use pricing/size/features and style to pick competitors. That is what customers do. I would compare a CX/CXL to Camry XLE's with 4 and V6 and the CXS to lower level ES330's. Using actual transaction prices the LaCrosse does very well, if you care about price!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I disagree on the engine. Buick will sell a lot of 3.8's to retail. Whether you agree or not with the buyers there is a huge market out there who love the 3.8L. That is one reason why it is still alive at Buick. Now they may not be the 40 year olds that Buick wants to reach but the V8 and the LaCrosse 3.6L will satisfy them. There are still a lot of folks in their 60's/70's/80's who have a lot of money that will buy the 3.8.

    Buicks challenge is to do what Olds did not do. Keep their traditional older market and bring in younger folks.
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I have driven my parents 2004 LeSabre and while the thing drives like a boat, I have to admit the 3800 is not bad, even compared with the 3.5 twin cam in my Intrigue. I think most Lucernes will be V8s though unless GM charges some crazy premium for it. I will certainly take a look, I'd love a V8.

    johnclineii : Avalon is not a Lexus though and the cars are in different price ranges. I don't see how saying Buick was a budget Lexus invites comparison to a Toyota in another price class?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    vanman1, will your parents buy the Lucerne and would they get the V8? or would they be satisfied with the 3.8?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,693
    What LeSabre and which wheels/tires.

    16 inch Michelin on a Limited Celebration or touring suspension?
    Or 15 inch on General supersoft, easy rolling tires for gas mileage and relatively long tire life?

    The two drive completely different.

    This message has been approved.

  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    Don't know if they will buy a Lucerne, the LeSabre is less than a year old so I don't know what their needs will be in a few years (they are getting up in years). I think my Dad would consider it though and I know he would go V8, he loves the old V8s and can never have enough power under the hood.

    I wish the 3.6L was the base for the Lucerne though. The car would seem more premium.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,693
    >The car would seem more premium.

    Was talking to owner of a Buick dealership of llooooonnnnnggg standing. The 3800 is far more dependable and powerful than many non GM drivers perceive. I'v often responded here about its great torque rating compared to even the 3.6 and other motors that people post up here as the favorite style of their choice. That strength in torque is where most people notice the quickness of their motor--in everyday driving at 2000-3500 rpm leaving stopsigns and stop lights.

    He wanted me to drive a LaCrosse since I'd wandered into the showroom to sit in the back of one. I found it slightly smaller than my LeSabres. Again it's a midsize car. I'll have to go sit in some other midsize cars like the Avalon and Camry and see how their back seat compares... The finish in the LaCrosse seemed great, other than I missed the carpet on the lower part of the rear doors. It just didn't look as detailed as my LeSabre Limiteds. I'll check for that in the Accord and Camry and Avalon when I brave the nasty sales staff next week one midday.

    I suspect his opinion mirrors the current GM management. I would expect to see the 3800 continue as a strong motor for a base level car. And I would expect the optional motors to attract the newer/younger buyers into Buicks.

    I do agree that optional motors in the base car would be a great way to go for others who want a choice, even if it's not much more if any cost effective as an option.

    This message has been approved.

  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    for over 1000 miles this week and was impressed. It was a rental car: base model with no options.

    The controls are well thought out and the seats comfortable. Cruise set at 80 gave 25.5 mpg.

    A UPS driver at a gas station asked "Does it drive as good as it looks?"
  • vanman1vanman1 Posts: 1,397
    I do like the 3800 and I would buy a car with one but, I prefer the 3.6L for the highway passing. No doubt, the 3800 is rock solid, it's proven itself 100x over. Best thing about it is it's cheap to maintain and efficient.
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