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Cadillac DTS

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  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    If understand your post correctly, you are downshifting your towncar into a lower gear for greater engine braking on hills. The towncar's cruise control is not doing this.

    I am skeptical that your 98 Deville was any different than the 2004. Both cars have the same axle ratios and transmissions, so engine braking on hills should be very similar. However, the 2000 model year northstar was a new engine, and there may be some differences to the transmission too. However, GM's cruise controls have never downshifted to maintain cruising speeds. As I pointed out, on a steep hill downshifting into 3rd gear will improve engine braking. Below 40 MPH 2nd gear may be needed...
  • Bulletin is Document ID# 1856743. (Very short) Concern: "Some customers may comment of a pulsing noise from the engine that occurs during the first minute when starting the engine after sitting several hours. The noise may be mistaken for an exhaust leak. It is actually a normal combustion noise caused by an aggressive fuel and spark to heat the catalytic converters in order to meet more stringent 2006 model year emission requirements."
    Recommendations:" This is normal engine noise and no repairs should be made in an attempt to improve it" END
    In my case its more like two minutes after cold start, its not from the engine but sounds like a metal to metal series of taps in the lower rear driver side of the car. Will let you know if we run this to ground.
  • :lemon: This 2006 DTS lux III car has been driving me crazy. I couldn't figure out why the car wouldn't stop when I took my foot off the gas pedal until i looked at the tach. the rpms drop only 50 or so rpms. drive 65 on a xway take foot off the gas and the car goes another 3/4 mile without slowing below 60. rpms drop maybe 200. The rpms won't drop until you touch the brake. What is worse is trying to drive in traffic at 45. Car in front takes goes off gas and slows, DTS keeps accelerating into back of car.You are forced to brake and then you fall way behind and have to step on accel to keep up unfortunately you have to brake again to keep from hitting car in front again no matter how lightly you touch the gas. And so it continues brake gas,brake gas unendingly. the brakes aren't going to last long at this rate. Driving the car in over all conditions I doubt if I have my foot on the gas more than 8% of the time. You feel like you ar out of total control of this car. I have had the car to the dealer twice and no solution. enterprise 2006 rental does same thing. I got a rental 2007 DTS and they fixed it. However they are unable to fix my 2006. I have opened a case with customer service and I am taking it in for the third time next tuesday.
  • Strongly suggest you find another dealer. I had a problem with A Deville I own and after three trips the first dealer recommended over two thousand dollars of warranty repair work for an oil leak. I also had a case open with Cadillac and on discussion we decided to try the next closest dealership and it turned out that the first dealership had replaced the oil filter adapter gasket but never wiped the oil residue off the bottom of the car and later said I needed a complete engine reseal. The second dealership wiped the oil from the bottom and has not leaked in the six months since clean up was done. This is the real world of car dealership service departments. I have never owned a Japanese car but if I have a few more experiences like that I will have to consider one, not to say that the service departments at the Japanese makers are any better. Bottom line, get back with your case worker at Cadillac and schedule a visit to the next nearest Cadillac dealership, it worked for me and MAY work for you. In any event please let us know the outcome and best wishes.
  • I don't really think this is a problem with the dealer. It seems to be a design problem of the car. Most people obviously don't care enough that the car drives like that. the dealer said it is a problem other people have had. but most people accept " they are all like that". the dealer actually replaced the throtle chip and reprogrammed with 2006 program. they are not allowed to reprogram with 2007 code for liability reasons. the 2006 other parts hasn't been tested with the 2007 program and their might be interoperability problems with other systems. I think lemon laws is my only solution if I can get it thru.
  • Since reading your post about the rpm's I've been watching the tachometer on my '06 DTS which I've owned since July of this year. My car definitely does drop the rpm's when I take my foot off the accelerator....they drop to about 800 when coasting or when I lift my foot from the gas pedal.

    There is definitely something wrong with the programming of your vehicle (PCM, maybe?). I wouldn't deal with the service department much longer....I'd be on the phone with a Cadillac advisor pronto.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    You should all be aware that if you are cruising along at a speed where the torque converter has been locked up - usually over 40 MPH - then taking your foot off the gas (I assume the cruise control is off) will not result in the tachometer showing much change in the engines RPM's. Since the engine is in direct link to the wheels with the torque converter locked up (or out), the engine will not slow down. Tapping the brakes will unlock the torque converter, which will allow the engine to slow down.

    On level ground taking your foot off the gas should result in the car slowing down. However, if you are going downhill, you may well continue to accelerate or certainly not slow down much.

    There is some possibility that the computer is adding some fuel to keep the engine running faster to compensate for the A/C compressor running, but perhaps the compressor is actually off. This would result in the car seeming speeding along with a mind of its own. Perhaps hitting the brakes kills this mode of operation. I would think that reprogramming the computer might fix the problem if there is a problem with the software, but if the original software is the problem, restoring it will do no good unless there has been an upgrade.

    If your dealer has given up, then you should take the problem up with Cadillac. I think that your owners manual has information on how to do that.
  • Recieved the new 2007 DTS booklet today. Noticed that LUXURY I is now an option package along with LUXURY II. Also the Bose sound system is standard on base models. About time. Rented an Avalon a couple of weeks ago on an extended trip in Florida. Lots of wind and road noise -far more than on my '03 Deville. CU downplays this. I also rented a Dodge Stratus last weekend. Very nice car -good ride and fairly quiet and peppy. CU blasts the ride and power. I'll quit reading their reviews. It doesn't sound like we even drove the same model car.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    For the 2006 model year there were 4 basic trim levels for the DTS, lux I, lux II, lux III and Performance. For 2007 there are still 4 trim levels: basic, lux I, lux II and Performance. As I read the standard vs optional equipment lists, the bose speakers are optional on the lower two trim levels and standard on the upper two...

    I have never considered CU to be competent at testing cars or pocket calculators for that matter.
  • I have to agree about Consumer Reports. I've learned that their advice regarding home appliances such as dishwashers and vacuum cleaners is great....but they're off-base on cars.

    My previous two cars were reliable domestic vehicles which I owned for 5 years each. Consumer Reports didn't like or recommend either of them (Dodge Intrepid and Chrysler Concorde).

    In our family, we currently have a 2001 Chevy Tahoe which has been absolutely bullet-proof since we bought it (CR doesn't like it), a '06 Cadillac DTS (CR doesn't like it either), and we just traded a very trouble-prone '99 Honda Civic for a new '06 Mercury Milan (the Civic had transmission problems, oil leaks, and repeat brake problems for the last 4 of it's 7 years with us....Consumer Reports loved it).

    Are they biased? I don't know....but my experience is markedly different than theirs.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    They have their own perception of what car should be. At one time (in the 70's) they said no one should own a Cadillac. While I think Cadillac's were more expensive than most people could or should afford, I don't think consumer reports should make that decision for people. They also recommended what the "family car" should be.

    I have read their appliance recommendations, but they are somewhat behind the curve on improvements that the manufacturers make. They seem to rate things as average, above or below; and the differences between the above and below may be significant, probably the average products are as good or better than the products with the best ratings.
  • Actually there appear to be four optional packages - the V8 Package, LuxI, LuxII, and Performance. The base model has (and I'm quoting from the brochure) "AM/FM stereo, single slot CD player, ,"plug and play" auxiliary jack,MP3 player, Radio Data System (RDS), and Bose Centerpoint Surround Sound System with 8 speakers. Surround Stage signal processing circuitry and Auto-Pilot noise compensation technology". Option packages include a 6 CD changer and the Lux II package has Bose Premium Sound System with 6 CD changer. Perhaps this is different. The standard setup sounds like light years better than my '03 base Deville stereo. Perhaps somebody on this Forum who buys or rents an '07 base model can look and see if the amplifier (usually visible from the trunk on the bottom of the package shelf between the two speakers) says Bose on it or something else does.
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    Purchase Date:3/21/06

    Mileage about 4100.

    2006 Cadillac DTS III downhill inadvertent acceleration problem. The car is new.

    I doubt if this is the same problem you are having, but it could be related. Our DTS does coast a lot when you kick off the cruise control at freeway speed. I haven’t noticed how much the rpms drop at that time.

    This is a great car but it has some real quirks.

    1. We live in hilly country. When going down hill the car will accelerate with your foot off the gas pedal about every 100 yards depending on the grade. This is especially bad on the turns. You do not expect a car to accelerate with your foot off the gas peddle on a turn or any other time. This is a safety issue. It takes excessive use of the brakes to keep the speed down and drive in a safe manor. When going down a grade we shift the car into a lower gear. The speed limit in town and the residential areas here is mostly 25 to 35 mph and in town the car should not even be in drive. The only time in town that it goes into drive is when you let off the gas peddle. This causes the car to coast excessively. We run the car mostly in 3rd gear around town.

    The dealer has had the car for testing two times for several days. This engine revs up 600 to 700 rpms when this happens and you surge or speedup while going downhill with your foot on the brake. It is in the computer program to save gas, so the computer shuts off the gas when the car is pushing the engine for a short time. It slows down great until the surge. When the engine slows to about 1000 rpms, then comes the surge. When the gas comes back on to prevent the engine from dieing the rpms go up 600 to 700 rpms. The engine has a lot of power and you really notice the surge. The technician was able to reproduce the surging problem. This a built in computer function to save gas as explained to us by the dealer’s head technician. The technician said that the company has no repair for this car at this time. Unless there is a computer update, there is nothing to be done. If you are going down a grade you have to put on the brakes continuously to keep the speed down. This situation becomes dangerous while going around the windy down hill grades in hilly country like where we live. Right as we turn into our drive way this happens almost every time. It happens even with your foot on the brake. It is dangerous!

    The cure for this is as I understand it from the technician and one of the owners at the dealer is to always drive in overdrive and use the brake instead of shifting down. This was their recommendation.

    We have contacted Cadillac and they tell us there is no fix for this problem.

    We contacted NTSB on May 1, 2006. They have not contacted us.

    The acceleration problem is a safety issue the others are irritating.

    Other quirks:
    2. The max tire pressure is 30 on the door post, 44 lbs. on the tires. During the hot weather the pressure has gone up and the computer continuously flashes and makes noises. I lowered the pressure and it seems better.

    3. The windshield wipers will run with the window completely dry, be sure not to leave the wipers on auto!

    4. We are hearing a weird noise. It sounds as if it is coming from some part of the front of the car, also at around 70 mph. Other people are reporting is noise. There is no message being displayed. It is a buzzing sound and it comes and goes. I tried opening and closing the sun roof. This did not seem to make any difference. We will be contacting the dealer to see if they have any answers. I may have solved this one, I am not sure yet.

    These problems take the fun out of driving this car!!

    wps
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    Purchase Date:3/21/06

    Mileage about 4100.

    2006 Cadillac DTS III downhill inadvertent acceleration problem. The car is new.

    Has anyone had this problem?

    This is a great car but it has some real quirks.

    1. We live in hilly country. When going down hill the car will accelerate with your foot off the gas pedal about every 100 yards depending on the grade. This is especially bad on the turns. You do not expect a car to accelerate with your foot off the gas peddle on a turn or any other time. This is a safety issue. It takes excessive use of the brakes to keep the speed down and drive in a safe manor. When going down a grade we shift the car into a lower gear. The speed limit in town and the residential areas here is mostly 25 to 35 mph and in town the car should not even be in drive. The only time in town that it goes into drive is when you let off the gas peddle. This causes the car to coast excessively. We run the car mostly in 3rd gear around town.

    The dealer has had the car for testing two times for several days. This engine revs up 600 to 700 rpms when this happens and you surge or speedup while going downhill with your foot on the brake. It is in the computer program to save gas, so the computer shuts off the gas when the car is pushing the engine for a short time. It slows down great until the surge. When the engine slows to about 1000 rpms, then comes the surge. When the gas comes back on to prevent the engine from dieing the rpms go up 600 to 700 rpms. The engine has a lot of power and you really notice the surge. The technician was able to reproduce the surging problem. This a built in computer function to save gas as explained to us by the dealer’s head technician. The technician said that the company has no repair for this car at this time. Unless there is a computer update, there is nothing to be done. If you are going down a grade you have to put on the brakes continuously to keep the speed down. This situation becomes dangerous while going around the windy down hill grades in hilly country like where we live. Right as we turn into our drive way this happens almost every time. It happens even with your foot on the brake. It is dangerous!

    The cure for this is as I understand it from the technician and one of the owners at the dealer is to always drive in overdrive and use the brake instead of shifting down. This was their recommendation.

    We have contacted Cadillac and they tell us there is no fix for this problem.

    We contacted NTSB on May 1, 2006. They have not contacted us.

    The acceleration problem is a safety issue the others are irritating.

    Other quirks:
    2. The max tire pressure is 30 on the door post, 44 lbs. on the tires. During the hot weather the pressure has gone up and the computer continuously flashes and makes noises. I lowered the pressure and it seems better.

    3. The windshield wipers will run with the window completely dry, be sure not to leave the wipers on auto!

    4. We are hearing a weird noise. It sounds as if it is coming from some part of the front of the car, also at around 70 mph. Other people are reporting is noise. There is no message being displayed. It is a buzzing sound and it comes and goes. I tried opening and closing the sun roof. This did not seem to make any difference. We will be contacting the dealer to see if they have any answers. I may have solved this one, I am not sure yet.

    These problems take the fun out of driving this car!!

    wps
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    My 2002 Seville shuts off the fuel injection system when coasting downhill, but there is no surge when the system comes back online.

    The recommended minimum pressure is on the door post. The maximum inflation pressure designed for the tires is on the tires. The softest ride will come from using the door post pressure. A few extra pounds of pressure will not hurt anything, but the tire pressure monitor (I don't have one) may object to too much pressure. One should check the tire pressures on a regular basis.
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    Difficult to know why Cadillac will not fix the surge. 600 to 700 rpms is way too much and makes using the brakes continuously necessary. True on the pressure, you cannot use more than about 33 in the summer. I doubt if they will wear very good at 30, we will see.
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    If your dealer's service department can't fix the problem, you should talk directly with Cadillac and keep after them until you are happy. Remind them of the problems with Audis doing something similar around 1990.
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    I tested our 06 DTS III yesterday (all on flat highway), at 65 with the cruise on it does not drop more than 50 rpms when I hit the brake to kick off the cruise. We bought this one in March 06. It takes a long time for it to slow down. It appears the throttle is not returning to the idle position. If the throttle returned to the idle position it sure would drop more than 50 rpms on flat ground. I have never been a brake driver, this car takes a lot of braking. (be extremely careful if you try this, if you hit reverse you might leave a big pile of metal on the freeway) This was weird, at around 55, if you kick the car into neutral it will not idle either. When we are coming down a long downhill grade we have to take the car out of drive to get it to slow down. It is like a run-away-horse. I will talk to the dealer this week, the car is ready for service anyway. No one has solved our low gear downhill acceleration problem. We have contacted Cadillac, with no results. wpsr
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    On long down hill grades you should put the transmission into 3rd gear for engine braking. This will work at speeds above 40 MPH. If you need engine braking at speeds of 35 MPH or less, then 2nd gear may be needed.

    As I pointed out above, when the torque converter is locked up, the engine is connected directly to the wheels and the RPMs will not drop when the cruise control is disengaged. However, I think that a second tap on the brakes should unlock the torque converter, but this is something to query the service manager about. This may be the whole problem in fact.

    My Seville has a console mounted gear shift, which makes shifting much easier. I am looking forward to the tap up/down shifters that GM seems to be introducing with the six speed automatics.
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    It does not matter what you do, including tap the brakes more than once. The rpms do not drop. When we find it necessary to shift to 2nd or 1st , that is when we get our famous 600 to 700 rpm surge, dangerous. Cadillac nor the dealer will fix it. buckeyedad has it right! wpsr
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    When you down shift to a lower gear the engine's speed WILL increase, that is NOT a surge.

    Your axle ratio is 3.11:1 unless you have the high performance model. In 3rd gear your engine should run about 2000 RPMs at 50 MPH. What this means in terms of other gears is:
    4th gear - 0.68:1 -> 1360 RPMs (torque converter locked - otherwise faster)
    2nd gear - 1.63:1 -> 3260 RPMs
    1st gear - 2.96:1 -> 5920 RPMs

    I would have thought that any competent person would realize that a lower gear will speed up the engine.
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    I must not have explained the problem very well. Please read message 336. If I can help with more information I will try. I took the car for service today, no help on any of the problems. My only intention is to solve these problems without insulting or offending anyone. I am adding # 5 to my list.

    5. When using the cruise control on a flat highway for example at 65 mph, when you hit the brake and stop the cruise control, the rpms drop only about 50 rpms. It does not matter how many times you hit the brake peddle to kick off the cruise. The throttle is not returning to idle when you kick off the cruise control. Even in 3rd gear the throttle does not seem to return to idle when you let your foot off the gas. The car takes forever to slow down. wpsr
  • sls002sls002 Posts: 2,788
    In your post #342 you state the the "surge" happens when you shift down. This is normal.

    As I explained in some detail, when your in gear the engine is connected to the wheels and if they are turning your engine will also have to turn. The torque converter will act as a fluid coupling or clutch and at speed will force the engine to spin. At low speeds the torque converter will begin to "slush" and will let the engine run at idle speeds.

    If you check the instantanous MPG, you should see some difference between the MPGs when the cruise is engaged at 65 MPH, and after you touch the brake, disengaging the cruise, the instant MPGs should jump up to 70 MPG or so. If it does, then the fuel injectors have shut down. If the fuel consumption remains constant, then there is something wrong -> perhaps your throttle body is sticky?
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,670
    When you see 30 psi on the door sticker, but 44 on the tire, it should mean that the max safe tire pressure for the TIRE is 44 psi (hot or cold, I wonder?)...the 30 on the door sticker is Caddy telling you that the car was engineered to run any tire at 30 psi COLD...because of the gap between 30 and 44, you can actually inflate your tires to about 32-35 cold, depending on the ride you like, still be within safe limits, and allow for a few psi leakage and still be at 30 psi cold...

    My Crown Vic calls for 35 psi on the sticker, 44 psi max on the tire, I inflate it to 37-38 psi cold, slightly firmer ride, well within safe limits, and can leak out 2-3 psi and still be at 35 psi...:):):):):)
  • This is in response to your post #335.

    Regarding your bullet #2:
    A tire pressure of 30 PSI is for normal loads and speeds. Maximum PSI of 38 (not the 44 on the tire side) is for higher speeds (100 MPH). This is all explained in the owner’s manual in the tire section on page 5-58. The page number is dependent on the manufacture date of the vehicle. Setting your tires at a cold pressure higher then recommended can set off the alarm warning as the tires warm up – I set mine at 32 PSI even though the label indicates 30 PSI and have not experienced any alarms yet. The higher pressure will also cause the vehicle to roll easier (less resistance) when you take your foot off the gas. This may be related to your bullet #1.

    Regarding your bullet #3:
    The rain sense wipers may come on as you described – see page 3-14 of the manual for an explanation.

    Regarding your bullet #4:
    If you only hear this noise when you accelerate – see my posting #308.

    Good luck – hope this helps.
  • This is not true - read the manual. All recommended pressure are for COLD tires. And it does not refer to any tires - only tires that have IDENTICAL SPECIFICATIONS. Tires are very much different even though they are the same size. I keep mine at 32 instead of the 30 PSI recommendation. The manual (page5-58) recommends 38PSI for 100 MPH speeds and not the 44PSI on the tire wall.
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    I was referring to #336. The statement you mention is misleading by itself. This is with the trans in 1st at around 15 mph coming down a fairly steep hill, like where we come to our home. It happens on other similar roads around town. The dealer has had the car for testing two times for several days. This engine revs up 600 to 700 rpms when this happens and you surge or speedup while going downhill with your foot on the brake. It is in the computer program to save gas, so the computer shuts off the gas when the car is pushing the engine for a short time. It slows down great until the surge. When the engine slows to about 1000 rpms, then comes the surge. When the gas comes back on to prevent the engine from dieing the rpms go up 600 to 700 rpms. The engine has a lot of power and you really notice the surge. The technician was able to reproduce the surging problem. This a built in computer function to save gas as explained to us by the dealer’s head technician. The technician said that the company has no repair for this car at this time. Unless there is a computer update, there is nothing to be done. If you are going down a grade you have to put on the brakes continuously to keep the speed down. It happens about every 200 or 300 feet as you come down the grade. This situation becomes dangerous while going around the windy down hill grades in hilly country like where we live. Right as we turn into our drive way this happens almost every time. It happens even with your foot on the brake. It is dangerous!
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    The max tire pressure is 30 on the door post, 44 lbs. on the tires. All pressures are stated cold. The pressure does go up quite a lot with the hot weather. During the hot weather the pressure has gone up from 35 where I had it and the computer continuously flashes and makes noises. I lowered the pressure to 33 and it seems better, it quit flashing amd making noises. We can not put more than 33 in the hot weather, the computer flashes and beeps, it will drive you nutter than usual for me. For me, I could do without the sensors, the tires get checked about every 30 days.
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    #2 - You cannot run the pressure more than about 33 here during the hot weather. The computer will drive you nuts. We have just a little too much computer control!

    #4 - The noise only happens at 70 or 75, it sounds like plastic vibrating and I think that is what the problem is. There is plastic on either side of the hood latch. I glued it down and think it solved the problem. The dealer yesterday said they never heard of this problem. I see other people talking about it.

    Thank you, wpsr
  • wpsrwpsr Posts: 21
    I forgot to mention, the instant MPG will tell me a lot. They have tested the car and say it is OK. Thanks, wpsr
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