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Suzuki Verona

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Comments

  • nace818nace818 Posts: 140
    Well guys, its been nearly 2 weeks that I put mine in the shop for the cylinder head and I still don't have it back. They are still waiting for the part which they said is delayed because of the hurricane. To make matters worse there is not one Enterprise car rental that has a car to rent in Baton Rouge according to the dealer. I know this to be true because I found that hard to believe and called several of them myself. Since this city literally doubled in population overnight, all the evacuees must have rented the cars. So I am having to beg for rides when I can't get a company car. For all of my trouble, it had better be fixed right this time.
  • Guess I am one of the lucky few, too. I have 24k on my 04 Verona and it has only been in the shop for oil changes. It runs like a fine Swiss watch. Almost as quiet, too.
  • It is not a matter of being one of the lucky few. There just is no solid evidence of how far the problems are be they the early ecm problems or the later valve seats wearing out (which might be isolated to dealers using the wrong weight of oil).

    Don't worry about the very few people posting here with problems as most people who do not have any problems are not likely to complain about nothing, but almost everyone with a problem will want to complain.

    While I take anecdotal evidence seriously, I also consider the whole picture and will wait until the data from the servicers comes through in a couple of years to make my real judgment. The early information does not look good, but time will tell. When the Verona first came to the US, it really seemed like it was not quite ready for prime time. The Ford Focus also was a car that was not quite ready for prime time when it hit the market the first couple of years, but look at it now.

    I can agree that of the Suzuki dealers I have had to take cars in for service had less than the best service departments. This does not mean that all the Suzuki dealers service departments are less than stellar, just a two that I had to deal with.

    I would not worry myself too much with the isolated anecdotal evidence from a few people here. At this point it could mean the problem is widespread or it could mean that there are a few bad cars.
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    "I would not worry myself too much with the isolated anecdotal evidence from a few people here. At this point it could mean the problem is widespread or it could mean that there are a few bad cars."

    It would appear just on this board that the problems are substantial. With only 12,000 sold last year ( according to Consumer Reports and others) just based on the problems posted here, I don't see why anybody with a rational mind would possibly purchase one of these cars. If there were some "fire sale" and they got rid of these new for less than 10K, then that is a different story!

    I can understand the current owners suffering through these problems. I am sure most are still making problems and driving a car that is essentially worthless. It is a certainty that the Suzuki dealers were not prepared for all the problems.......
  • So far I see nothing that can indicate the problems are currently widespread beyond the very few people who have posted here, less than 10 individual car owners with the latest reported problem. There are also a few people posting that have had essentially zero problems. People often confuse anecdotal evidence with real substantial evidence, that is how the info-mercial industry parts so many people with their money.

    I am waiting to see the TSB that refers to replacing the heads for the valve train noise. So far Alldata does not show it.

    As for me, I don't buy new model introductions the first three years they are out. It typically takes about 3 years to find out the real story. Anecdotal evidence may or may not be an indicator of the real problem history of a car. Even though the Magnus was sold in other countries, it typically had the Holden 4 banger with the Aisen tranny, not the inline 6 that has the GM engine controls along with the GM tranny.

    As for the ECM stalling problem, it was three fold. The first attempt in August '04 wasn't quite there. In Sept. '04 they had the new ECM and fix in place, but it was plagued by incorrect information in the factory service manual on the computer idle relearn procedure. The TSB to give the correct idle relearn didn't come out until November of 2004. That is a long time to not have a firm handle on correcting the idle stalling issue indeed.
  • For all the folks out there who find this forum an opportunity to bash the Verona, I'd like to point out ***hard to believe*** there are some people who are indeed satisfied, to say the least. It's true, the contented buyer does not feel the need to publicize every complaint, no matter how minor, and then seek the support of others in their "fight" against Suzuki. I do not work for them, but I believe they make fine cars, as is the case with the Verona. My '04 EX has had the ECM upgrade and hasn't seen the shop since. I change the oil exactly as recommended, 5W30 (I do it myself) and the engine is barely audible at idle and quite subdued at full throttle. The interior and exterior look as good as the day it was delivered, and the performance has way improved now that the engine is broken in. I do think there are a handful of people who pay a low price for a value-leader car such as the Verona and expect it to measure up to a Lexus. I'm not disputing that there has been a large audience of unhappy folks out there, but it happens with other high end vehicles as well...just look to the reliability problems with Mercedes and BMW. Remember, the Verona was a GMDAT design picked up by Suzuki to market here in the USA. It's not an original Suzuki design off their drawing boards, so why are you bashing Suzuki? They are doing everything possible to correct the defects they have inherited. Just trying to put things in perspective.
  • I'm new to the forum and after reading some of the postings it sounds like Daewoo designed some kind of engineering disaster. Luckily I haven't had any major problems, just the usual stuff, ECU upgrade, brake light switch recall, plus a window track realignment, check engine light ( O2 sensor, in need of a software patch ) and yes my tappets are a little noisy...

    I purchased my Verona not for the value but for the engineering, Dr. Ulrich Bez was director of Daewoo during the Veronas development, it's his baby...Dr. Bez is former director of BMW, Porsche, and after a fallout with Porsche he was scooped up by Daweoo, and is now director of Aston Martin. This guy knows a thing or two about automotive development...The best part of the Verona in my view is the engine..all aluminum construction, fully counterwieghted crankshaft ( 12 ) seven main bearings, ladder frame for the main bearings ( clamps the crankshaft much better than individual bearing clamps ) and a nicely finned 8qt oil pan. The head is a twin cam with twin rocker shafts and roller rockers..The cylinder liners are Silitec, developed for Mercedes, they are thin, ultra strong and super slick..I cant even think on another car for the price with so much engineering. I also love the chassis, this car drifts nicely at 90mph ( fully controlable ) and feels like a missle at triple digits. As long as the car runs I'll keep it, thank you.
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    The Verona is a car with a totally different powertrain in the rest of the world. Yes, the motor is very sophisticated. It is widely known that this motor can put out much more power than currently tuned for (right now it doesn't put out anymore horsepower than most 4-cyls. out there!) However, GM got involved the last minute due to the bankruptcy of Daewoo and changed the transmission and the motor controls. It doesn't matter how good the motor is if the transmission is not suited to the rest of the powertrain. BTW, if the motor is so good, where does the responsibility lie for the tappet noise and the need to replaced the head? :confuse:
  • So far there is no TSB on the lifters in the Verona engine from Suzuki.

    In June they did issue a new software upgrade for the transmission computer to improve the shifting. There is a TSB available for that if someone is having some odd shift behavior they would like checked out.

    They also issued another software update for the ECM in June 2005, apparantly the earlier updates they performed didn't quite meet EPA standards for California emissions.

    BTW anyone can order TSBs from Suzuki's pit stop web site or get copies from the dealers service department.
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    They also issued another software update for the ECM in June 2005, apparently the earlier updates they performed didn't quite meet EPA standards for California emissions.

    Haven't they issued something like THREE UPDATES? It would seen getting the transmission to perform properly is problematic.............
  • No, there has only been one TSB update for the TCM (transmission contol module). That was issued to address customer concerns about the hesitant shift between 2nd and 3rd. It was issued in June 2005. Overall except for the somewhat odd shift behavior, the transmission simply has not been a problem from a reliabilty standpoint. This does not mean that it is not the best transmission match for the engine power characteristics, which it is not.

    The ECM has had three updates. The first two one month apart at the end of 2004. The last one in June of 2005 was to address the EPA concerns regarding the two other software updates that were performed for the stalling issue.

    So far there has not been a TSB issued for valve tappet noise as someone erroneously stated before. It is important that people posting stick with the facts and check the information before posting. Just because they read it on a message board makes it true, right? :surprise:
  • Sounds like some serious problems out there, not sure whats going on. My Suzuki dealer services 5 veronas including mine, 2 have had engine replacements. I saw the engines lowered from the chassis ( look nice ) I noticed the tranny looks nothing like a GM unit, more like a ZF ( fully finned casing ) I also noticed the word " Siemens " stamped on my ECM module. If you look at your invoice sticker you will notice the engine and tranny are made in Korea. Not sure where all this GM stuff came from. Again, I enjoy my verona, revs nicely to redline and hugs the curves like glue.
  • Hi tonyc4, can you shed a bit more light on the window track realignment? Which window was affected? I'm having an issue with the driver's window and would like to know if it's the same problem...thanks.
  • In response to the window track problem, when I lowered or raised the drivers door window I could hear a loud clunk, like the glass was coming in contact with something. I took it to the dealer who found something loose or misaglined, and made the repair in about 30 minutes, works fine now.
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    5 veronas including mine, 2 have had engine replacements.

    Do you know why they had to replace the engine? I thought it was the "heads" that were bad.
  • The two engine repacements were because of stalling. They told me the engines had no compression.
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    I know this doesn't involve your particular situation, and your getting this stuff second hand, but this makes no sense. How can the motors not have compression? The stalling issue was linked to the ECM. The rings, valves, and pistons had to be defective from the factory in order for this explanation to be plausible.
  • tonyc4tonyc4 Posts: 14
    Not sure about the compression loss. Service deptartments dont give out too many details unless you grill them.
  • I purchased my 04 EX in the fall of of 03 and at the time monitored and participated in this forum for six months. I dropped away when the new car euphoria wore off, but 30,000 miles and two years later I have no regrets about the purchase. The car has served me well and I still find it a pleasure to drive.
  • rasuprasup Posts: 136
    Hi,
    I am back after along gap. The Verona after its initial cup of woes regarding ECM, sensors etc. ran without incident from Dec 2005 till Oct 2005. Two weeks back, the check engine light went on. I took it to the dealer and they ran the OBD-2 and found out that the 6'th cylinder had low compression. So they had a dud of an engine. The dealer took it under warantee and asked for a new engine!!. They also had to replace 2 clock springs (One broke while installation). Now I have the car back after 15 days with a new engine. This is the final straw. I seriously doubt the QC of this car. I have done 13000 miles in two years and had meticulous maintenance and yet this car has embarrassed me on numerous occasions. Last year while attending a relative's marriage, the Car refused to move on the wedding day!!. Now a new engine and many parts later, I am not sure if it will run another 2 months without incident.
    I am dissapointed. For those who havent had this kind of nightmare, pray!!.
    No more Suzuki's for me. :lemon:
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    "Two weeks back, the check engine light went on. I took it to the dealer and they ran the OBD-2 and found out that the 6'th cylinder had low compression. So they had a dud of an engine. The dealer took it under warantee and asked for a new engine!!."

    You are not the first to have engine problems. Many have reported "head failures" also. It's a darn shame.... it's a beautiful car. They need to trash this model and start over. Something tells me thats what will happen.....
  • For those that want to know....
    NAPA parts stores have 2004 Verona filters for the air Filter #2838 at $14.29 and a Cabin Air Filter #4906 at $23.39 and also the oil filter. I did not get the price but the part # is 7046.
    There is also a STP oil filter #S2903
    Veronaowner...
  • spelspel Posts: 1
    We bought the Vernoa 1 year ago. I think it has been in the shop more than my garage! The car was only 1 1/2 months old when we had our first oil leak. Now three leaks later I have a new engine and I am just waiting for the other shoe to drop. I will never buy another suzuki! :lemon:

    Has anyone else had any problems with the crusie control just shutting off.
  • mm9351mm9351 Posts: 72
    Question: Any symptoms / lack of performance when the check engine light appeared? No abnormal operation? Hard to believe your well-maintained engine would just fail after 13,000 miles. Did Suzuki service offer an explanation; e.g. oil other than 5W-30, hard driving, etc? As for me, I'm concerned, the miles are racking up on my EX (60 miles per day, odo now over 8,000) and I certainly hope one day this doesn't happen without warning. Good luck to you, let us know how you fare with your new engine...
  • rasuprasup Posts: 136
    With the new Engine the Verona ran OK. The previous engine check light did not appear to result in less power. When analyzed under the computer the dealer reported that one of the six cylinders showed lack of compression or power. The Car was essentially running on 5 cylinders at that time. They said that the O rings might be deformed. I dont know. They said that the Company would be analyzing the cause. There was no hard driving. The dealer said that not too many Veronas had that problem at his dealership. But I do read on this forum that some others have had such problems. I have decided to trade and buy a new car anyway.
    With this type of QC I dont want to take further chances with my Car. Some of you might have good QC cars and may be running well. I have got to appreciate the dealer who helped me to his best extent.
    I am done with Verona for now.
    Good Luck to you guys !!!
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    "I have decided to trade and buy a new car anyway."

    So I am assuming the problem was never corrected on your car. I think the above story illustrates a certain point. If anyone is considering a purchased of a Verona-don't buy used. It might be like a box of chocolates---you don't know what you will be getting!
  • rasuprasup Posts: 136
    No, Suzuki corrected the defect and the problem was resolved. But with my car going in 6-7 times in for repairs does not inspire enough confidence to retain the car.This is after 2 years/13000 miles. I was not sure of the QC of my car. After 3 yrs and 36000 miles what would you feel if you had to have major repairs?
    The Verona does have a lot packed in...fog lights, steering wheel audio, very roomy. But high QC is necessary to have a great car.
  • tonyc4tonyc4 Posts: 14
    Check Engine light popped up last month, took it in and they pulled up 3 codes, misfire on cylinders 1-2-3 plus a couple of random misfires. They had no cure so they turned it over to Suzuki Tech. Last week I was unable to fill my gas tank, fuel just wouldnt go in the tank. Took it in and they found the charcoal canister full of raw fuel, replaced it and now I'm fine, car runs perfect,no misfires and the motor no longer feels like it wants to stall all the time. Plus more power and idle speed does not fluctuate. I always top up the tank during fill-ups...dont do it...it overwhelms the EVAC system and dumps raw fuel where it doesnt belong ( mainly the charcoal canister, which stores fumes only ) New Verona comes out next spring if anyone interested.
  • Where did you read about the new Verona next spring? :confuse:
  • chuck1chuck1 Posts: 1,405
    "New Verona comes out next spring if anyone interested."

    With just over 12,000 units sold last year, and all these problems people have, who in their RIGHT MIND would buy one of these things?
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