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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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  • subah6subah6 Posts: 34
    The new H6 is whisper quiet at cruise. The only noise is a little tyre roar on coarse chip bitumen. On smooth bitumen it is very quiet and no wind noise.
  • Urmez (uvdavar) - Nobody knows for sure. At least those who do know aren't telling (Subaru of America that is). I think a good bet would be May or June at the earliest.

    -Ian
  • John,
    Thanks for your opinion. Sounds like a GT Wagon it is as all I've got in my garage are a bunch of bicycles. ;-)

    I'll have to talk to the wife about adding that Porche to the garage though! LOL!

    -Ian
  • I read that production would start in March, with cars available May-June.

    This page has some interesting additional info (rumors) about various things, including US engine configs and pricing of the Outback:

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread/t-449244.html

    --------------excerpted from article

    New Legacy/OB :( /:)

    Kinda good news/bad news here.

    New-body Legacy & OB to be made at SIA, this spring. Expect cars at dealerships by May/June.

    We will be getting the 3.0 w/4EAT or 5EAT and ~250HP (no final numbers yet, still emission testing) and the *same* old 2.5L massaged to ~175HP in the base, with 4EAT or 5MT.

    Prices should be 1-3% above current models.

    (^that was all the good news)

    Legacy Turbo--

    Will not be here until CALENDAR YEAR 2005 (!!) as either a MY 2005 or possibly a 2006 if it's late enough. :mad:

    We will be getting a 2.5L turbo, (which is not the 2.0L turbo in JDM B4s & specBs), and which will not be either the USDM STi 2.5L Turbo 300/300 or the F-XT/Baja 2.5L turbo.

    It will be it's own configuration, designed for "smoothness" (in his words) and with 230-250HP & 5EAT...that is all they are currently testing, he said a manual would "probably" be offered, and it "might" be a 6MT, but it would *not* be the same as the STi's 6MT which is both too heavy and too expensive.

    He said the delay in the Leg Turbo was twofold-- one, to push sales of the New-Body N/A 3.0 OBs and (possible) 3.0GTs; and two, to give them time to sort the emissions and find a "comfortable" HP figure for the 2.5L turbo that won't compromise STi sales, but will still be enough to attract enough buyers who want a "sporty" 2.5L Turbo Legacy.
    --------------excerpted from article
  • legacy and STi are two different types of buyers in my book.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,676
    STi and Legacy turbo buyers are different. STi customers want a street brawler; Legacy turbo buyers want comfort and speed. These are two distinctly different audiences.

    Bob
  • What do y'all think the chances are of the following minor things making it to the U.S. spec. Legacy and OBs?

    Datadots
    Immobilizer
    Front door, cloth side, lower outer corner red lights
    Side mirror incorporated directionals
    Open wagon hatch interior drop down center red light
    Full size spare
    Lower body grey cladding on 2.5 OBs
    Rear LED fog
    Side curtains on 2.5s (or as option)
    Amber rear directionals
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    None of them are too costly--Why not?

    Eric
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Are rear fogs allowed everywhere?

    -juice
  • Bugpit, a good bit of that has been proven either partially correct or completely false by a more than one person.
  • subah6subah6 Posts: 34
    Glycinemax,

    The following are what I know are on our Oz models or available in certain spec levels:

    Datadots - yes all models
    Immobilizer - yes yes all models
    Front door, cloth side, lower outer corner red lights - don't know what you mean?
    Side mirror incorporated directionals - yes all
    Open wagon hatch interior drop down center red light - don't know what you mean?
    Full size spare - yes all
    Lower body grey cladding on 2.5 OBs - black on the Oz spec
    Rear LED fog - no
    Side curtains on 2.5s (or as option) - yes on the premium pac
    Amber rear directionals - yes all
  • Subah6,
    Thanks for the responses.

    "Front door, cloth side, lower outer corner red lights - don't know what you mean?" Can't find pic right now. Was a Frankfurt show amateur pic taken that showed when the front doors are open there was a red light that came on to help others see that a door was open. Typically a higher end feature. Here is a link to a pic... lower right is speaker and lower left is red light I'm talking about... http://www.subaru.de/legacy-s14-15-big.jpg

    "Open wagon hatch interior drop down center red light - don't know what you mean?"
    Here is a link to a pic, click on "Zobacz Wiecej" in lower right corner and then the pic is the one second from last http://www.subaru.pl/subaru_outback.html

    "Rear LED fog - no" Are each LED bank stuffed entirely with white LEDs, used as regular brake lamps, not even present, or? Looks like Oz spec. has filament bulbs for reverse lights.

    "Side curtains on 2.5s (or as option) - yes on the premium pac" Seems some countries have 'em standard, some as an option, and some only avail. on the more costly models. With Honda making all bags standard by 2006 I hope all US spec. Legacy and OBs get them at least as a stand-alone option.
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 426
    It would be a grave mistake for Subaru not to put curtain bags in every 2005 Legacy/Outback trim level - and socially irresponsible.

    Two nights ago in my town a 16 yr. old girl, driving too fast, smashed into a large oak sideways - right into the driver's door. Wrapped the car right around the tree - penetration into the cabin looked like it was close to 2 feet in. Emergency crews were shocked she was alive. Minor injuries. 2002 Jetta with curtain and side air bags. Saved her life. For a few hundred $$$...

    BTW, my 2001 LLBean has the red light on the door.

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Wow, that is a very rare scenario. How did she get sideways?

    That almost would argue for standard stability control, more likely to help in that type of situation.

    Side AB are usually for impacts from other vehicles that run a light.

    -juice
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    yeah I can see side air bags standard for every model, but curtain air bags as optional or standard only on lux models.

    The bottom line is whatever the safety/collision avoidance systems on vehicles, there are those who are pent on driving irresponsibly. For those folks, the best thing is to let someone else drive.

    Eric
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 426
    juice-
    Light, misty rain, going around a corner too fast, just slid sideways right into the tree.

    rangner-
    yeah, but at 16 you don't know better, so it's good to have a system there to give you another chance...

    Ralph
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    the debate is hackneyed...I think everything that could be said already has been.

    I personally drive a car without side air bags and I feel safe enough. And I am currently looking for a little beater miata to take to work. Those who are safety OC can go buy from a manufacturer like Volvo--40K wagon. you can always go one step further, but cars have to be economical. I don't want to pay for the worried mind of a minority.

    Eric
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    And some day you might make that statement from the cemetery. Your heirs will appreciate the $300 or so you saved...
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    Hey, you can't take it with you right? ;-)

    I think everyone understands that there has to be a stopping point somewhere in making every possible safety feature standard--and economical.

    I never said cut out front side and curtain air bags, just leave them optional, for those of us who feel safe enough with regular front air bags.

    Some people will abuse the safety features and drive even more recklessly because their rationale is: Hey I've got AWD and VDC and 3 kinds of air bags--I can drive as fast and crazy as I want and avoid injury.

    Point being--My grandpa used to drive in MN with bald tires--no treads. He never got stuck in the snow and would pass those off the road going too fast with snow tires. Yes, increase the standard safety equip but don't go overboard with it. I think more change needs to happen with people's driving habits than filling the car with unlimited air bags etc etc.

    For instance, does everyone want to pay extra for a Blaupunkt stereo system in a car? NO, In the same way, I shouldn't have to pay for Side air bags or curtain air bags if I don't want to, and if it isn't required by law.

    Just give everyone a choice.

    Eric
  • subah6subah6 Posts: 34
    Glycinemax,

    "Open wagon hatch interior drop down center red light." This is not a light but a reflector with 24 red reflective dots. The drop down part is actually a screen which mates with the cargo cover blind so that the cargo area is completely covered and the cargo blind itself has a straight edge and does not have to be curved to match with the curve of the wagon door.

    "Front door, cloth side, lower outer corner red lights." Yes this light is on our doors.

    johnclineii,

    "And some day you might make that statement from the cemetery. Your heirs will appreciate the $300 or so you saved..."

    What you say is true except that, unfortunately, to get side and curtain air bags in the premium H6 over the standard spec H6 you have to spend AU$7500 (US$5500) to get that spec level, not $300. You cannot option only the side/curtain air bags.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Eeek. Shades of what Mazda NA does in the USA.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Give 'em a year or two, it'll trickle down.

    -juice
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 426
    Side curtain air bags in the news again. Either Subaru is smart and leads the way or follows as a second rate manufacturer. Whether you agree or not, as boomers (the consumers with the $ to buy new cars) age, safety leads the list... And protecting ones head is at the top of the list...

    NYTimes 12/8/03:

    "Under the plan, automakers agreed to side-impact safety standards that would essentially require them to equip their vehicles with air bags that keep passengers' heads from slamming into doors when a car is struck on the side. About a quarter of 2004 models offer side air bags as standard equipment, but some offer protection only to the chest.

    The Insurance Institute has said that such equipment could save 45 percent of the drivers who are killed when their passenger cars are hit by other vehicles on the side. Accidents in which large pickups and S.U.V.'s strike cars in the side are particularly deadly for car occupants.

    Half of new vehicles will undergo the tests by 2007, or the 2008 model year, and all by 2009, or the 2010 model year.

    "I wouldn't buy a vehicle without side air bags with head protection," Stephen T. Kozak, a top safety engineer at the Ford Motor Company said in an interview this week. He added that when his brother recently bought a vehicle without side air bags, he told him to "take it back right now."

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    Ralph
  • Safety, Value, Reliability. These were the main factors considered when I bought my Subaru in 95. Having AWD standard is what put it over the top. What’s gonna make me buy another Subaru? Same thing - Safety, Value, Reliability and AWD!

    Safety features like side curtain airbags are critical, especially with kids; and especially when competitors are making them available now. They are there to protect you from the bad drivers out there. They are not intended to be a license to drive recklessly. Neither should they be a luxury item. Simply put, they should be standard.

    Subaru used to be the only AWD wagon. Now the wagon market is exploding. Sadly, I’m letting my MBNA closeout coupon expire on New Year's Eve because it’s taken Subaru almost 10 years to actually “redesign” the Legacy - and its not even a dramatic change! IMHO, the new styling is pleasant enough, but it’s not innovative or exciting. The B4 looks like a lot of other 4dr sedans out there. I suppose the Legacy won’t see any real design innovation for at least another 5 years.

    So who’s buying the 2005? While Subaru must go after the performance enthusiast market, I think the average buyer is just plain vanilla (At 65 MPH, the base engine will get there the same time the turbo does). Turbos are a good way to get attention, but they are a small niche market. Models like the Legacy SE are the value leaders for the average buyer and should be heavily promoted in 2005. Yeah, I’d spring for the an SE package w/sunroof and alloy wheels (if it’s a good deal); as long as Subaru doesn’t make me buy a larger engine, Macintosh and leather to get it. And if Subaru resists on making side curtain airbags standard, an SE model is probably the best place to put them.

    Subaru would be shooting itself in the foot if doesn’t take this opportunity to put out the best car with the best features available. There's just too much product out there. I bought my wagon for safety, reliability, value and AWD. I hope to be able to say the same thing about my next one – and I hope it will be a Subaru.
  • Have anyone of you heard or tried the "Tornado" fuel saver? It's a on TV thing that I saw the other night. save fuel n boost hp?

    Anyway
    Should check this link out for some 3D legacy:
    http://accessory.subaru.co.jp/legacy/3d/3d.html#top

    click either sedan or wagon(enter).
  • hondafriekhondafriek Ottawa CanadaPosts: 2,924
    Anybody gullible enough to believe the claims for these things, I have an interprovincial bridge that goes across the Ottawa river that I can sell cheap :-)

       Cheers Pat.
  • rangnerrangner Posts: 336
    What do you mean by

     "and its not even a dramatic change! IMHO, the new styling is pleasant enough, but it’s not innovative or exciting"?

    Is your idea of innovation just styling? What about the addition of variable valve timing, an all new 5-speed auto w/ sportshift and a 4-speed auto w/ sportshift? And the turbo option? Gas mileage is also supposed to go up while hp& torque will too.

    BTW have you ever driven a turbocharged car? From my understanding the new subaru turbos have greatly deduced lag and improved performance.
    I'd say you'll feel a tremendous difference between the NA and turbo from 0-65mph.

    Eric
  • Yes, I did say that the “styling… is not innovative or exciting” to me. Some reviewers agree calling it “more evolutionary than revolutionary”. Laurance Yap said that "despite being all-new …the new Legacy looks an awful lot like the old one… Elegant and timeless undoubtedly, but it's also less than I might have expected given an all-new model, and Subaru's stated intention to become a design leader.”

    Just like in matters of the heart, it’s usually the “package” that first catches the eye - so it helps when a “new” car looks really “new”. That’s why I won’t buy an ‘04 – it’s just too much like my ’95. Of course, looks alone don’t close a sale and Subaru has done much to improve the Legacy from the inside out. But it’s the B9 that’s dramatic, not the B4! That’s all I’m saying.

    Also, I totally respect your passion and enthusiasm about performance. But for me, it would be all too easy (and tempting) to push a turbo way beyond the speed limit. The last speeding ticket I got (5 points) will be the last one I ever get - because of higher insurance costs. So just give me a solid meat and potatoes NA vehicle with the best bang for the buck. The turbo is just icing on the cake. It’s great, but I'm gonna skip dessert.

    The real question is will Subaru give the consumer better value, safety, and reliability than their competitors or will the new Legacy get lost in the shuffle? I know that Subaru can deliver – we’ll just have to wait and see if their US offerings do.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think the Legacy is very handsome, kind of like the Acura TSX and Mazda6, sporty and wedge-shaped.

    As for ground breaking, look how ugly Bangle has made newer Bimmers. No thanks.

    Andreas Zapatinas' concepts like the B11S and B9 Scrambler point to a more stylish and controversial future, but the Legacy and Outback are Subaru's bread and butter, so don't be surprised if they convert these to the new radical look last.

    -juice
  • redkey1redkey1 Posts: 270
    I do not think the current and 2005 legacy's look alike at all. Current version is somewhat boring in sedan form, while the 2005 is quite a good looking car IMO.
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