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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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  • Ralph - I think he said he'd post in the Owner's club Future Vehicle's discussion. Check there for Juice and Bob updates. ;-)

    -Ian
  • Pretty standard fare. Nothing exciting per Subaru. The Black STi WRX has been worked over by all the people getting in an out. Nice rally car display with video. Talked to the rep and he said minivan/suv is in the works. STi Legacy w/H6 Turbo is being worked on. ????

    The only new Subaru at LA is the Saaburu. Saab had the 9-2X on display. It has new front hood and air splitter, 17" wheels, silver color and SnowBoard equipment.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    So far only a dinner, but we've been lobbying some SoA staff for inside access, early access to information about new models, etc. I doubt we'll leave empty handed, put it that way.

    Future Models is the first place I'll post tomorrow.

    -juice
  • "Projector beam halogen headlights"

    From the look of the press release, there is no HID (although there is one picture that looks like it has HID). Any one know if they are going to put HID in???
  • mjc440mjc440 Posts: 76
    Is it me or does one of the pictures of the rear view of the Legacy sedan show a wiper blade????
  • No mention of HID's, but all the options and accessories have yet to be announced. Keep your fingers crossed, or better yet go to subaru.com and let them know you want them.

    As for the wiper blade on the sedan, my bet would be that they forgot to photoshop those off. The sedans in Japan come with them. If you go to www.subdriven.com and click through the NAIAS coverage to their 2005 Legacy GT Galery you won't see a blade on the rear sedan window.

    -Ian
  • Sorry if this been mentioned before, there are tons of pics and data at this site, but different specs for different market of course. You can also 'test drive' the new Legacy.

    http://www.subaru-global.com/lineup/

    Are there any Subaru owner originated from a Honda Accord camp? Do you think it was a smart move? I want a AWD sedan for better handling in the snow. All comments welcome.

    TIA
    Pete
  • redkey1redkey1 Posts: 270
    1) Any idea how much a base 2.5 GT is going to cost?

    2) When will they be arriving in showrooms?
  • hondafriekhondafriek Ottawa CanadaPosts: 2,931
    After owning 6 Accords and two Civics, I bought a Subaru Legacy GT Wagon in 2001, and I wouldn't go back, my next car will be Subaru although that is a considerable timespan away.

      I actually came to Subaru by default following the demise of the Accord wagon, whilst I loved my Accords and I generally found them to be bulletproof, I find that the GT is more refined in terms of roadnoise, is more fun to drive and the AWD is incomparable.

    While this is probably largely perception, the GT feels to be a safer car, you just get that feeling when you sit in it, it just feels more planted and a more substantial vehicle overall.

      After almost 3 years of ownership this car still puts a smile on my face every time I get into it, and I love it as much today as the day I got it, I will be perfectly happy to drive this car for many more years.

      Cheers Pat.
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 426
    I own a 2001 LLBean H6 Outback w/ 53K and a 1996 Accord LX 4 w/ 113K. I'm waiting for the 2005 Outback H6 sedan to arrive - in monotone (w/ memory seats, please) - to replace the Accord. Looks like we won't see one until the Feb. 6th press release.

    Although the Accord generally handles well for a Japanese car - it's good in snow - it still doesn't come close to the AWD's planted feel. I am finding that once you go AWD, you never go back. I never realized how much the Accord (or any 2WD car) slips in rain until I drove an AWD car for a couple years. I'm not talking about sliding out in a turn - I'm talking about a random, constant slippage sideways/back/forth while going 55-75 mph on a straight highway (w/ excellent tires). It's so slight you would never feel it until you get used to the AWD feel. At times there is only 1 drive wheel connected to the pavement - and sometimes, none!

    The Accord is also a tinny car to me - the 96 at least. And although they have improved the car and crash stats from the 96 I have , Subaru seems to make a beefer, safer car... And w/ the Detroit show showing more concepts looking like tanks, the hummer trend is unfortunately here to stay.

    I've resigned myself to arming my family when it comes to my purchase this year... Excellent crash stats all around and AWD on the ground.

    Now if there was an AWD Accord....

    Ralph
  • hondafriekhondafriek Ottawa CanadaPosts: 2,931
    There is an AWD Accord, just not in North America, in Europe yes.

      Cheers Pat.
  • otis123otis123 Posts: 426
    I'll stick w/ Subaru... the H6 engine seems to be a winner... I hope their tweeking doesn't mess things up...

    Ralph
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Posts: 464
    I've owned 2 new Accords (an 88 LXi and a 91 SE) and a new 99 Civic Ex prior to buying my 2001 Outback and 2004 WRX...the Hondas were all GREAT cars that were imaculately finished and extremely reliable. I ended up going to Subaru, though, because Honda doesn't offer an AWD wagon and I won't buy an SUV.

    Although I had quite a few problems with the Outback during the 55K miles I owned it, my WRX has been flawless during its first 13k miles and I expect it to hold up as well as any of my Hondas. To me, the WRX feels like it's put together better than my Outback, but that's hard to quantify.

    Having said that, we just bought a 2004 Accord EX-L that is in another league all together in terms of quality feel inside and out. Everything in the 04 Accord moves with a precision feel and has an expensive look to it. Definitely a step above my Subarus in terms of fit and finish. The FWD Accord is fine in most cases, especially since we also have the WRX for trips to the snow, but I'm not sure it would suffice as our only car. Having owned AWD Subies since 2001, I don't think I could be without it for those trips over I80 when it's snowing. It's so reassuring to have all 4 wheels clawing for traction in crappy weather, it makes me forget about all the things that Honda does better.

    Brian
  • Mike (redkey1),
    Depends on which model you want. The NA (naturally aspirated or non-turbo) Legacy 2.5i is starting production in March so should hit showrooms in May with the Outback following in June and the Legacy 2.5GT (with turbo) in July.

    -Ian
  • bigelmbigelm Posts: 995
    the turbo is going to be at dealers?
  • mjc440mjc440 Posts: 76
    Three months ago I traded in my '99 Accord EX V6 Coupe (with 100,000 trouble-free miles) for an '04 Legacy 35th Aniv Sedan 5 spd manual.

    My comments:

    - Exterior fit and finish is better on the Accord. For example, the Legacy's driver door doesn't close quite right (It requires some muscle and I can hear the door scraping on the latch if I close it really slow - If you're used to GM; you won't notice anything wrong.)
    - Accord has a much stiffer ride (almost uncomfortable); the Legacy has a better ride (and still handles well)
    - Accord's steering is a little too over-assisted; Legacy's is weighted better (best road feel of any car I've driven).
    - Accord's 200 HP Automatic 3.0 V6 got better gas mileage (29.5 mpg) on highway vs. Legacy's 5 spd manual 2.5 (27.5 mpg). The reason is the 5 spd is geared way too low for normal highway driving. The 2.5 revs at 3,000 at 70 MPH vs. the Accord's ~2,700 at 70 MPH. I don't recommend buying a manual transmission Subaru until they add an extra gear (or figure out how to make it geared higher).
    - FWD Accord slipped and slid in bad weather (and torque-steered under hard acceleration in dry weather). Legacy's 2.5 doesn't have enough torque to torque-steer, but it's grip in rain and snow is uncanny. It's unstoppable in a foot of snow. The AWD makes all the difference in the world in snow and ice.

    Overall I'm glad I bought the Subaru - it came in very handy in the last snow storms here in the Northeast. It's actually a pleasure to drive in the snow. I'll never own another FWD car again. The only regret I have is getting the ridiculously low-geared manual transmission (next time I'll test drive at highway speeds before buying) - I'll put up with the '04 for a few more months until the '05s come out.
  • sebberrysebberry Posts: 148
    "Legacy's 2.5 doesn't have enough torque to torque-steer..."...

    It certainly does. You have the manual, so you can't put it into front drive only mode like I can with the auto, but if only the front wheels were pulling, there'd be some torque steer. The rear wheels get power too quickly and keep the car on the straight and narrow for you to notice any torque steer. Another beauty of AWD!
  • Over the past year i have been drooling over pics of the new Subie. However, after seeing the US bound version, there was not that same excitment.
    I gave it some though and realised that the extended front and rear bumpers resulted in a slightly GM looking car(seen on Subdriven.com). Models sent to the rest of the world have a crisper look.
    I hope they fix that for future models.

    Mutsur
  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    Lucien,

    Glad to know someone else out there is not so impressed by the looks of the new Lagacy/Outback. I have become increasingly dismayed by SoA's movement away from its independent heritage. One example is the limited variety of manual transmission vehicles available to the American public (even in comparison to what's offered in Canada). Pandering to marketing-induced, cookie-cutter tastes. And the new Legacy Wagon/Outback looks awful--like an old Saturn. That said, they're still the best cars out there for the money, mechanically speaking.

    The Mudge
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They are not HIDs, but projector beam headlights work very well and look awesome. SVX had them, so did some Lexus models.

    No wipers on sedans, that's a features saved for Japanese models.

    Prices have not been announced yet, but Cars.com guessed $21k for a base Legacy all the way up to $30k for a loaded Outback.

    I heard production will start in March for the Legacy 2.5i, April for the Outback, and May for the 2.5 GT (turbo).

    Folks, there is LOADS of information in Subaru Crew Future Models, more than you could ever want to know about it. About 100 photos, too. We just got back from the Detroit show.

    Overall, it is a *substantial* upgrade from the current model. 0-60 in 5.5 seconds, huge moonroof, 5 speed Sportshift on the GT turbos, 17" rims standard, vented rear disc brakes, floating calipers, four piston front calipers, I could go on for an hour, but check Future Models because I listed the 80 or so improvements there.

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Posts: 1,760
    "No wipers on sedans, that's a features saved for Japanese models."

    they really are trying to keep costs down on this model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ha ha. Rear wipers, but I think you knew that.

    It's late, I need sleep!

    -juice
  • I'm not sure if it was answered before (if it was, I missed it) but have they decided on pricing for the new Legacy 2.5GT? I'd think it would have to be somewhere over $25k, otherwise they'd end up cannabilizing some of their WRX sales...of course, if they're priced close, then my car purchase for this year just became a harder decision.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Link to that tons of information, please?

    This is not always the easiest site to navigate. I doubt I am the only one having problems finding it.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,712
    Here ya go...

    sweet_subie "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" Jan 10, 2004 12:43am!make=Subaru&model=All&ed_makeindex=.ee9956a

    Scroll back a hundred or so posts.

    Subaru site navigation hint:
    When I log on to Edmunds Town Hall discussions, I select Subaru, then show all threads. I also have my Edmunds preferences set to show the most recent postings first.

    You will end up with 9 pages of threads. From around pages 4 - 9, they're all archived (read only) threads. Once you read pages 1-4 (all the active threads), you will find (as long as you stay on top of things) that you will spend most, if not all your time on page 1. It's really very easy, again, if you stay on top of things.

    I also book-mark the Edmunds Subaru all page, so I don't have to go to Edmunds Home, etc. When I log on the Internet, I go directly to this bookmark.

    If you set your Edmunds site up this way, (as opposed to doing subscriptions), any new thread that is added to this site, that's Subaru-related, will automatically show up.

    Bob
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    EXCELLENT advice, Bob!
    There is also an advanced search feature. Its kind of hidden under the keyword search, but if youre in a discussion and click on that little link under "Search by Keyword," you get some options to search for words or phrases within that discussion. I tend to use it when someone posts about a problem with their vehicle that I'm sure I've seen covered before but can't remember when. Ha, old age!

    We'll all be happy to help you find your way around here, John.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    If he had told us that that discussion was under the owners forum, I could have found it!

    People forget that what is obvious to them because they use it all the time is not obvious to those of us who don't use it at all!

    Thanks (and I have posted a few times on Edmunds before, tee hee).

    Now, anybody KNOW if we will be able to get a 6 in the Legacy, or are they going to push us into the Outback in the USA still?
  • Does anyone know if any of models of the 2005 Legacy will have a navigation system?
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