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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+



  • bury the dead horse already
  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    someone should design, build and market a HVAC control that kills ACC and lets you use a standard DIN radio too.


  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    samiam's fix seems to address it (make the ACC work) on the F-XT's HAL...


  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    The biggest problem is the poor documentation. If they improved that, 90% of the user-related problems would be solved, and then we could focus our time complaining about the "real" hardware problems!


  • locke2clocke2c Posts: 5,038
    whaaaat... the problem is not 90% users not knowing how to use it!


    I've said it before, but my '93 Taurus SHO has ACC and it does exactly what it should 95% of the time. the ONLY time I have to mess with it is max-effort defrosting (it tries to leave some air on feet).


  • You're right, Colin, about the SHO. Had a '92 and the ACC was great!
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    Yeah, I have to agree with Colin. It's not poor documentation, at least not on the Forester's version. It's the temperature sensor thing near the ignition key that doesn't suck in enough ambient air to correctly read the temp - making it slow to react (overwarming the cabin for instance). Samiam's fix pulls more air in and allows "HAL" to correctly adjust the HVAC as needed.


    I know the '05 Forester introduced more fan speeds and it seems that has eased HAL's behavior a bit.


  • sdufordsduford Posts: 577
    It's both!


    The user interface is quirky, and the temp sensor is inadequate.


    I've learned to live with the quirkiness, thanks in large part to Craig. But there is nothing I can do to make the temp sensor work better, short of making large changes in temp setting, which defeats the purpose of an ACC in the first place!


  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Seriously, the documentation is horrible and first time users have no idea of all the modes of the system or the quirks. For instance, setting the temp to 65 means "no heat" while setting it to 66 means "target temp of 66F". Setting it to 85 means "max heat" (and will exceed 85F) while 84F means "target temp of 84F". On my wife's Acura, these analogous extremes are labeled "LO" and "HI" respectively, which makes more sense. On Subarus, people just get confused as heck when 66 is warm and 65 blows cold air. But it's actually the correct operation -- 66 is a target temp and 65 means no heat added in winter and max cool in summer.


    The "AC" indicator comes on and means that AC can kick in, but it's not necessarily on all the time. So people see "AC" on when it's 45F outside and are confused as heck even though it's really not running! On my wife's Acura, there is no indicator for AC -- it just cycles on/off in the background and you never know (ignorance=bliss with ACC). However, there is an "AC OFF" indicator when the driver presses the AC button (overrrides it to OFF all the time). Again a case where the Acura implementation makes more sense and is documented.


    The worst is the purgatory mode between full auto and full manual. Here, the system will react every time you tweak a control, because it's still trying to maintain the set temp with every new constraint the driver throws at it. In this crazy mode, it would seem like the system is fighting your every move, but in reality, it's just trying to meet your set temp with fewer ways to do it. Again, a case where the manual doesn't talk about this, nor does it talk about the proper procedure to get into full manual override where you truly have control.


    All of these things (and more) are examples of why people get extremely frustrated with the system and say it doesn't work well. Once you understand the way the system operates, these issues (and more) become non-events and the system is a lot easier to live with. At that point, the only complaints center around hardware issues -- like the systems tendency to overshoot because of poor temp sensors. In fact, you can't truly notice the real hardware issues until the more troubling basic operation issues are out of the way.


    Seriously, if Subaru had better documentation and explained all the modes of the system, it would eliminate most of the complaints I see online.


  • dcm61dcm61 Posts: 1,457
    Seriously, if Subaru had better documentation and explained all the modes of the system, it would eliminate most of the complaints I see online.


    But how many people RT*M?


  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Posts: 1,394
    any complaints with turbo lag ? or climate control ?
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,744
    I'll compare this to my Odyssey. You set a temp between 65 and 80 IIRC. The extremes will automatically go to max but will slow the fan as that temp is reached. There is a big button marked AC than turns the AC on and off manually but in auto mode the system will turn the AC on and off to reach the target temp. There is a big button marked auto that puts the system is full auto mode. There is a button to select which vents but that will disable the auto mode except for the fan. There is a fan control that will disable the fan speed but not the auto vents.


    But it's actually the correct operation -- 66 is a target temp and 65 means no heat added in winter and max cool in summer.


    Then the little display should say max heat or max cool - not 65 and 85. The latter is not intuitive. People see a temp and they expect it to be a target temp.


    The "AC" indicator comes on and means that AC can kick in, but it's not necessarily on all the time.


    My Ody will also do the same but if I hit the A/C button it displays A/C off.


    With the Ody, I can manually control every aspect of the HVAC if I want or leave it alone at a certain temp and it does it's job.


    Also, the Ody has 2 temp sensors. One is on top of the dash trying to sense heat on the windshield. The other is down by the driver's knee trying to sense interior temp. Maybe that's what the Subaru system needs.
  • tsytsy Posts: 1,551
    Funny. My ACC did something strange today. Hit the A/C button, turned it off, hit AUTO and it went into auto mode with the A/C off. I don't think I could do this again, because I don't remember the exact sequence. ;-)


    I find that I use the semi-auto mode the most, and it seems to work just fine.


    I don't think Subaru is the only one with problems with it's ACC. I played with a '05 Mazda 6 ACC last week- same problems. Maybe they are both made by the same company? ;-)


  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,391
    The worst is the purgatory mode


    That is just hilarious. Sometimes it is really nice just to have manual controls....
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Sounds like the Odyssey system is just like my wife's TSX.


    I agree, Subaru should label the 65/85 extremes differently since they are certainly not interpreted as temperatures.


    Subaru does have two sensors -- one sun sensor on the dash and one thermocouple/vent sensor by the driver's knee. I think it is the latter that is lacking -- seems to lag the true cabin temperature in many cases (and how bad varies a lot).


    Fortunately, Subaru's ACC also has a full manual mode which I tend to use when I am skiing -- dressed up with thermals and wearing contact lenses makes me very finicky about HVAC. I normally set it to 66, with floor mode, fresh air, and fan on 1 for the whole trip. Seat heaters do the rest.


  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    I know, I tend to prefer full manual myself. I honestly don't have any huge gripes about ACC, but definitely prefer manual systems. In fact, the three knob arrangement in my WRX was ideal.


  • I've wet myself a couple of times laughing after reading about how the Outback turbo is "Scary Fast". So I thought I would give those people who think so a reference point.



    If the 250HP/3500lb Subaru Outback is considered "Scary Fast" what do you suppose the driver of the Porsche GT-2 Turbo thought when Hans Stuck blew buy him in his F-16?
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    Wow. Think he's driven that track a time or two?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Scary fast?


    Well, in my review, I called the Legacy GT "stupid fast".


    So I guess stupid is more fast than scary? ;-)


  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    wow, that was insane fast! Only towards the end on one little turn did he get a bit squirrly. I can only imagine that to the onlookers and those in the cars he passed that he must have looked like a blur!


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