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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    lower on the temp, I belive the auto-dim/temp mirrors are made by Donnelly.

    -mike
  • Its an auto-dim compass mirror.

    FWIW, the spec for interior components on most cars is -30 to 100 c so if it works at all below that, you are lucky.
  • garandmangarandman Posts: 524
    Er55 is probably an ABS failure code - Speed Sensor. The speed sensors are magnetic rings on each wheel hub. A lot of road salt, grease, or a faulty sensor could be the cause but usually they're just dirty. According to one forum, "According to the service manual if you re-connect the diag connector by the fuse box under the dash, then press the trip knob during the guage sweep it will tell you if/what codes are present."

    Tires are crap (Potenza RE-92). I really appreciate the grip of the GY Assurance TripleTred I had on the '96. Night and day. I have to keep these things on for the remainder of this winter, but there is no way I am keeping them beyond the summer.

    Why keep them? they're poor in rain and snow but are quiet and have low rolling resistance. Subaru forums are full of complaints about these tires in winter. Nokian WR's are All Seasons with the Severe Service Snow rating (the Mountain Snowflake Icon) and would be a good choice if you are sticking with one set of tires.

    I'm surprised it doesn't have a block heater. The Cold Weather package used to have the block heater as standard but I think they removed it somewhere along the line and made it a stand-alone option. But the heated base of the windshield is a great feature. I found the 4 seatings for the seat heaters silly - I pretty much turn them on full for a few minutes, then shut them off once the heat starts.

    My 97 started without drama at -25 to -35 F (in VT) but it was broken in. Are you getting a battery blanket as well? I think Subaru sells one but I'd guess aftermarket ones work just as well.

    It seems Subaru is dropping the Legacy wagon and the Outback Basic is designed to occupy the same market position.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,461
    Thanks for the reply. For the Er55, it happened while I was doing some turn around procedure on the highway to go back and check on a stranded motorist. When I turned around in a lot nearby I suffered some understeer because I was still naive and used to decent tires. The CEL came on then, so I am thinking it had something to do with the slippage. Oddly, the ABS deactivation did not occur until I had checked on the motorist, turned back around, and was accelerating on the highway. Above about 20, maybe 30 mph, the light came on and stayed on for the next 150 miles or so. The next morning neither the ABS nor the CEL lights were illuminated.

    Regarding the tires - honestly cannot and do not want to afford another set right now. I plan to put a set of dedicated winters on it next Fall. Breakup will probably be a problem when my driveway snowpack turns to slush, but I can live with the week-long inconvenience to defer a $500 expense. I probably would not even notice how poor they are if I had not had a set of semi-decent tires on the other one. They are as good as the all-seasons that were on my '96 for the first two years I owned it. *shrugs*

    The block heaters, on Subarus, are dealer-installed options. But, my surprise is that they did not install it as a matter of procedure upon arrival. I talked with the salesman about their standard winterization procedures and he said (verbatim), "We only put block heaters in and adjust the coolant. We don't winterize them like they do in Fairbanks." I was fine with that, as the other necessary heaters/adjustments are easy to make. Imagine my surprise when I fine no block heater as I am installing the oil pan heater and the outlet block! Grr... still annoyed at that. Probably would not be quite so annoyed if it was not -30 to -40 during the 48-hour period the car did not have the heater. As for the battery blankets, I do not think they are useful. As long as the engine (and transmission on an automatic) are properly warmed prior to startup, the battery pad makes no appreciable difference on either battery life or CCA. Maybe I am wrong here, but I had a battery pad on both my truck and car until the pads wore out, and the battery on my truck is 9 years old now - still works great, and only had the pad (operational) for the first 2 years. The car had been sans a pad/blanket for the past 2 years. The car started every time during those two non-winterized days, but it was extremely unhappy about it. I did have the oil pan heater on, so at least the oil was not sludge (5W-30).

    The shifter and hand brake boots are both cracked in multiple places after that introductory cold spell. Subaru will be paying for new ones - and probably will every spring. I'm quite surprised this car is not better able to handle the cold.

    Oh, and noticed the apparently common lift gate rattle this morning. I like the Basic - no regrets having gone with it versus the full trim level. Financially, I probably should have purchased in Seattle (I would have saved that $500 for new tires!), but oh well. :D
  • garandmangarandman Posts: 524
    Collected from other forums or my own observations. I'm sure there are more but here are things other OB wagon owners always say, "I didn't know that," when I show them.

    * If you lock the window lock button, the lights on the other three windows go out on the controls and then come back on signifying the windows are 'turned off'
    * When the lights are on and you adjust the dimmer setting the dimmer setting is diplayed on the trip display; iLL1-ILL6
    * If you press the lock button on the key fob three times in five seconds it beeps the horn and flashes the lights to help locate the car in a parking lot.
    * If you leave any door open or the trunk and you try to lock the car it will beep four times to let you know that something is open.
    * You cannot lock the doors with the key in the ignition and engine off. They unlock again.
    * When you start the car and the outside temp is below 37 degrees, the console will flash the temp as a freeze warning.
    * The divider in the cup holders is removable. Twist it counterclockwise and you can take it out.
    * You can press the control knob for the A & B trip odometers and it will light up even if the ignition is off.
    * There is a second power plug in the center console.
    * If you have the rear wiper on intermittant and you put the car in Reverse, it goes on full speed. The rear wiper on the wagon is speed sensitive. The Slower the speed, the slower the intermitten span, as you speed up, the span gets shorter.
    * The sun visors have plastic panels you can pull out about 6" from each inside end to cover the whole side window or close the gap between them.
  • That is great now I will have to play with that stuff when I am driving around today. I know about the freeze warning and the ILL (the ILL control went, well, ill and would flash that intermittently...took me a while to figure out what that was). The console power plug is where the phone charger lives, and the sun visor extension I thought was for when you put the visor along the side window, but I guess it works for both.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    The visor extenders are for when the visors are off to the side.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    The entire cupholder liner (not just the divider) is removable for easy cleaning, as is the rubber liner in the little cubby at the top of the dash. Also, depending on your phone, the flip-down ashtray makes a cool cell-phone holder. :shades:
  • wmquanwmquan Posts: 1,817
    I've read posts complaining about the Bridgestone RE-92A's (as well as some defending them). Got to experience how bad they are first hand this weekend.

    On Saturday, it snowed lightly, putting a thin, wet layer on top of the compact snow and ice leftover from Wednesday's storms in the Pacific Northwest. I noticed on the way home that the ABS was chattering even when I was slowing down. Other vehicles didn't seem to have as many problems stopping, and I wasn't going fast.

    My driveway is 30 feet down a steep hill. I slowly turned down the hill, but could not turn into my driveway. The Outback just slid downhill, and eventually the tail started swinging around. No traction at all. I let the tail go around, hoping to control my descent by sliding tail-first down the hill, with a gentle curb assisting me. I ended up getting to a stop 75 feet past my driveway. I let it down another 25 feet to avoid my neighbor's driveway.

    I had to sand/salt the 100 feet to successfully climb back up.

    Obviously there's no miracles when you don't have traction. BUT other vehicles didn't seem to have as many problems as I did. My 2001 MDX seemed to handle the slippery stuff better. Its AWD system isn't better than my Outback's, so it's got to be the tires (Michelin Cross Terrains vs. the Bridgestones). The Outback's tires were properly inflated and have only 13k on them.

    So, my advice is, if you expect occasionally slipper stuff but don't need/want winter tires, add a tire replacement cost to your Outback acquisition. The stock tires are awful! I don't know how Subaru, a company that markets its vehicles go-anywhere capability, can provide such bad shoes on the Outback.
  • Does anyone know when 2008 legacy/outback will be available?
    Does Subaru release the new models every year at the same time?
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    Should be available for sale July-ish.
  • jeffmcjeffmc Posts: 1,742
    "On Saturday, it snowed lightly, putting a thin, wet layer on top of the compact snow and ice leftover from Wednesday's storms in the Pacific Northwest. I noticed on the way home that the ABS was chattering even when I was slowing down. Other vehicles didn't seem to have as many problems stopping, and I wasn't going fast."

    Same experience here w/the ABS/tire slippage. Only 8.5k miles on the orig tires. I'd really like to try some Nokians on my OB... At this point I'll probably wait 'til summer though.

    Anyone comment on road noise on the Nokians vs. OEM tires?
  • wmquanwmquan Posts: 1,817
    Only 8.5k miles on the orig tires. I'd really like to try some Nokians on my OB.

    We've all read good things about the Nokians, but I'm not sure if I want the small compromise in normal dry driving. It's a smaller compromise given that they're all-seasons, but it's not what I'd want for my XT. I'd settle for good quality all-seasons that can handle some occasional bad conditions. From what I understand, there are tires superior to the stock Bridgestone RE-92A's. Ones that are better in ALL phases -- dry, wet, and snow/ice.

    Like you, I don't like the idea of buying replacement tires so soon after the purchase of our vehicles, and am hoping it can wait a bit. This IS the worst winter in my locality (Redmond/Bellevue) in the 12 years we've lived around here.

    The Tire Rack survey sums it up pretty well:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+R- - - E92A&vehicleSearch=true&partnum=255VR7RE92A&fromCompare1=yes&minSpeedRating=V#Su- - - rvey

    And they're near the bottom here:

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=HPAS&width=22- - - 5%2F&ratio=55&diameter=17&tireSearch=true&autoMake=Subaru&autoYear=2006&autoMode- - - l=Outback%20Wagon%202.5%20XT&autoModClar=Limited&minSpeedRating=V

    My wife is leery of driving the Subaru in snow now. That isn't the opinion that works well for Subaru.
  • garandmangarandman Posts: 524
    Anyone comment on road noise on the Nokians vs. OEM tires?
    I have three sets of tires for my Outback: Goodyear F1 GS D3's; Nokian WR's; and Nokian RSI's.

    The stock RE92A's are quiet, have low rolling resistance and decent dry handling. I can't imagine a poorer tire for an Outback in the snowbelt.

    The Goodyears are AMAZING on wet and dry roads but helpless on snow and ice.

    The Nokian RSI's are arguably the best studless tire on the market for snow and ice. They're not too noisy on a dry highway and have good hydroplaning resistance and wet stopping. Like other dedicated snows, wet cornering isn't very good, and they have no UTQG treadwear rating or warranty.

    I only got the WR's last week but we have had them on our Mazda MPV. I had a chance to drive in the rain for a few days and on ice/freezing rain today.

    These tires are just about the ideal tires for the snowbelt. I don't find them "squishy" in dry handling or highway use by the simple expedient of pumoing them up to 38/36 psi.

    If there's a big storm forecast, I'll put the RSI's back on - because I can - but if I had it to do over I'd use the WR's from November through March, then use the Goodyears. The RSI's have proven overkill for the last two seasons. The WR's acquit themselves well against dedicated snows on snow and ice, but last much longer. They have a 50,000 mile treadwear warranty. They're not cheap - but if you need AWD, these tires will make an significant difference in stopping, turning and accelerating on snow and ice.

    image
  • nickelnickel Posts: 147
    First big snow in the Twin Cities, today, 7 inches in my neighborhood. Just getting out of my house, first corner, and pushing the gas softly, a 360 that finished luckily onto a powder snow curb. At least they cleaned the streets really fast this time, so when I came back everything was on asphalt again. It wasn't the Outback, were the tires. Worst mistake Subaru has ever made, that agreement with Bridgestone. On my former Forester, I had to change the OEM tires on 6 months (Bridgestones too) because they didn't get a grip. Those were Dueler HT.
  • My 02 came with the RE 92 and they were terrible in the snow. They were hardly worn at 27k, but I threw them out and got Nokian WRs and they were great in the snow, ice, and heavy rain, and fine in the summer. Just traded in my 02 and the tires were showing wear with 38k on them, but seemed ok for one more winter.

    My wife has an 04 OB also with the RE 92 and last week in the snow she slid all over so I just put a set of Nokian WRs on her car. Expensive. If we lived in a less snowy area, I would have considered the Bridgestone Turanza LSH or an LSV with an 05 OB.

    I am now driving a 07 OB and I already see that the RE92A is not very good, but I better get at least one winter out of these tires.
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    Anyone comment on road noise on the Nokians vs. OEM tires?

    I am switching back and forth between the OEM tires and the WR's on my 06 3.0R wagon. I can say that the Nokians are definitely noisier. It was quite noticeable driving out of the tire store the first day they were on.

    Now that they have been on for some time I do not find the noise at all excessive. I have apparently gotten used to it.
  • I, too, noticed the Nokians were noisier when I drove away from the tire store, and thought they were a little noisey on the highway when I had them on my car, but so bad that it kept me from getting a set for my wife's car.
  • smittynycsmittynyc Posts: 291
    I'm sorry to read about folks having problems with the OEM tires on the Outback.

    Interestingly, the first year of the redesign (2005), the Legacy sedans and wagons got the same tire (different size, obviously). But starting with the 2006s, the Legacys got a Yokohama tire -- the Advan A82. So far, I'm pretty pleased with them -- I went through a puddle taking up half my highway lane at 60+ without any problem, they track well, they're quiet, they have good bite, etc. The biggest drawback is that they have a laughably bad treadwear rating -- 160! I swear I'm seeing treadwear after 1.4K!

    Anyway, I'm wondering if any fellow 06-07 Legacy owners could share their impressions about how this tire works in snow and ice. Assuming we get snow and ice in NY this year, I'd like to know what to expect!
  • ncc4ncc4 Posts: 16
    As a new ( and very proud ) owner of a 2007 Outback I have a couple of questions I could use help with.

    The heater seems to have quite a low volume of air movement. My previous vehicle was a Camry and the fan would really blow a lot of air. The Outback seems a little restricted in comparison. Is this a "normal" trait, or have others noticed this and found a way to improve airflow?

    Also, if you have a flat and need to install a fuse in the receptical in the underhood fuse box, what amp should you use? I can't find any reference in the owners manual. There is a selection of spare fuses inside the lid of the underhood fuse box so I've lots to choose from, but which is the right one?

    Thanks
    Nigel
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Which model do you have Nigel? I am wondering if you have the manual climate control or the automatic.

    I had auto climate control in my 05 Outback XT, and it blew pretty strong with the fan on the highest setting. Obviously, the perception of the airflow differs depending on which vents are open/closed. I always tried to keep the outboard vents open, to make the airflow quieter and softer. When the outboard vents are closed, the middle vents blew too strong for my tastes.

    I never ran into issues with heating or cooling that suggested more airflow was needed. If anything, the system would get too hot or too cold if you left it at a temperature extreme.

    Craig
  • bat1161bat1161 Posts: 1,784
    I have to say that I've had no problems with my RE-92's. I have a 06 LL Bean OBW with 13900 miles on it.

    This past weekend I did the 48hrs of Tristate with Paisan and company where we drove through back roads upstate NY and VT. There was mud, rain, and a little snow and I had no problems with the tires. Biggest problem was seeing due to the headlights being coated with all the road grime ;) .

    Wish the OB had headlight wipers/washers!

    Mark
  • kmcleankmclean Posts: 173
    I live in the Bothell/Kenmore area, and agree that this winter has been pretty bizarre, as today's snow confirms.
    A couple of years ago, I bought a set of Goodyear Eagle GT-HRs for my OB - mostly for our typically wet winters - but they've proven to be quite good for snow (NOT ice). They now have about 25K on them, and allowed me to scoot up a very steep neighborhood street this morning. Steering control had been quite good, and braking (depending on the snow/slush/ice conditions) OK. They really do facilitate the get-up-and-go part, so getting stuck is not a concern - just don't get over-confident in the braking department. When I bought them, Tire Rack had good ratings all around, and they are excellent for both wet and dry. I got them at a good price at Woodinville Goodyear - in "downtown" W-ville. I believe they're still available.

    Good luck - let's hope this craziness stops soon!

    Ken in (snowy, icy, paralyzed) Seattle
  • ncc4ncc4 Posts: 16
    Craig, I have the "Touring" model available in Canada which has the manual climate control. The system puts out lots of heat, but there is very poor airflow, especially to the rear seats through the ducts that are underneath the driver/passenger seats. I checked to make sure the carpet wasn't in the way, so that's where the question of actual volumn of air flow came from. I haven't tried closing the outer dash vents as they help to keep the side windows clear in our lovely Canadian winter!

    Nigel
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,461
    You cannot lock the doors with the key in the ignition and engine off. They unlock again.

    Let us take that one a bit farther:

    *You can lock the doors with they engine running (key, obviously, in ignition!) if you are inside the car with the doors closed, but if you try to lock them with the door (driver's) open, they will all unlock.

    *You cannot use the remote while the key is in the ignition (car can be running, on, or off).

    *You CAN lock the car, not be in it, and have the engine running, but you have to outsmart the car - First, lock all the doors from inside using the driver door lock. Next, unlock the driver door (only) using the lock lever located next to the door handle (not the lock switch below the window controls). Finally, exit the car, close the door, and use a "door key" (second key - chipped or not) to manually lock the driver door.

    A truly lovely feature. :mad:
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Ah, OK. I can tell you that the rear seat floor vents have never blown very strong on any car I have owned (Subarus and Hondas, with a Mazda thrown in along the way). They all just trickle air out onto the passenger's feet. I remember seeing the duct when I installed the underseat subwoofer in my Outback, and it is very small and skinny -- clearly not intended to carry much air flow.
  • garandmangarandman Posts: 524
    I, too, noticed the Nokians were noisier when I drove away from the tire store, and thought they were a little noisey on the highway when I had them on my car, but so bad that it kept me from getting a set for my wife's car.
    What tire pressure are you running? I notice the nokians are noisy around 30 psi, not so much about 35psi.

    We now have them on two cars and two friends with Subarus have also purchased them - one Outback and one Legacy GT.
  • I asked the tire installer to put 34 in the front and 33 rear, and thats what I used in my car, too.
  • Most replies here are about the tires. How come no-one mentions that another issue is the over-sensitive ABS in use by Subaru?
    I regularly drive other newish vehicles with ABS and the ABS does not kick in as easy as my Subaru. It's downright scary sometimes. Like when you hit a bump in the road when braking and you feel like you have no brakes for several feet.
    I changed all 4 tires last winter to Yokohama Avids and it made no difference with the sensitivity. I have considering disconnecting the ABS this winter if we get snow! I read in other forums that some people actually do that.
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The ABS issue is related to the tires. There have been tons and tons of posts on NASIOC and here about the ABS, it is all related to the tires. Had the same problem on my Armada with the stock Contis and my Tropper with Bridgestone 684s.

    -mike
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