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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • Actually the space issue was one of the reasons I was leaning towards the Yakima system for the note you made, putting things on the outside of the clamps.
    I am not too worried about weight, I figure 50# of bike and 50# of baby stuff + 20# of rack and I'm still under the 150# limit with some room to spare.
    I appreciate all of your thoughts and input.
  • feilofeilo Posts: 128
    Thanks for your commentary on the 08 OB, its really helpful. Did you get a 5MT 2.5i?

    After lurking here for sometime now and endless deliberations with myself about getting an OB, I think its time. My VW Passat wagon will need to be replaced and the 08 OB is contender for sure. I have driven in rental pre-08 OB's and there are somewhat unrefined as you stated, which has kept at arms length. Your comments on the overall performance is also encouraging. Its definitely a contendah!
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 683
    I switched to a 2005 Outback 3.0R VDC wagon from a Passat W8 wagon. It's great to be able to keep my car out of the repair bay!

    The 2005 rides better than the Passat did on rough roads and has less throttle lag from a stop. No doubt the Passat had better 0-60 times for those who care.

    The 3.0R VDC has much less understeer than the Passat which you will appreciate. High speed stability seems identical. Fuel economy for my six is similar to the W8 on the highway but much better in city driving. You might want to test drive the 3.0R.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    A friend still has hers in the shop. She's had this Ford Five Hundred loaner longer than she had her Passat, it seems. She fooled me into thinking she's bought the Ford! :D
  • feilofeilo Posts: 128
    Whoa, must have hit a raw VW Passat nerve here ;)

    W8's are great to drive but boy they need some $ for TLC ...

    In all fairness my 03 VW Passat 1.8T wagon has been relatively troublefree over the last 4 years/135K miles and I have enjoyed driving it with a few tweaks (chipped, lowered suspension). I now have to change my ride because its too "old" for our company car plan.

    I have always fancied the OB/Legacy especially one with 5MT. Shame they killed the Legacy GT wagon and the XT is beyond my budget (as is the new Passat Wagaon). I was going to wait for the Jetta Sportwagen but its will be in its first MY and I don't think I will have the same fortunes I have had with my Passat.

    Looked at leftover 07 Mazda6 wagons and while the prices are right (they have $2,750 rebates on them!), the choices were either high-end GTs or low-end VEs, and no AWD.

    I think the 2.5i with 5MT is a darn good package now and as before, its a contendah!
  • My new 08 seems so much smoother in general operation than the previous-generation 03 that I sometimes think my old Outback was actually a lemon. But that's not really the case. One big difference is the new electronic throttle control. What really drove me crazy with the 03 (on hindsight) is that anytime you lifted your foot off the accelerator, even gently, the damn engine would "clunk" and jerk. Now, my foot actions are filtered by the electronic control.

    There is a downside to this: the new Outback is tamer, a little boring even. The current Outback is more like an Accord/Camry appliance; the refinement is there and the comfort and the smoothness but if you are a driving enthusiast you may not like it because that mechanical grittiness has been whittled away. It seems out of character to drive this car aggressively, it wants more relaxed and nuanced piloting.

    And OK, the "brand new car" aura is starting to wear off. Some issues: the power windows squeak occasionally when lowering them, I notice a lot of little vibrations and noises but they happen in different places at inconsistent times, the felt covering the back of the rear seats is ALREADY starting to pill, no weather band on the radio, the new lighter tailgate shuts with a cheap, tinny sound, the headlights don't spread light high enough, I'm uncertain about how well the cloth seats are going to wear - the "suede"-like part seems a little cheap, the Potenza tires have ridiculously short tread-height (designed to be replaced too quickly). The theme here is cost-cutting and I don't see Honda/Toyota-esque build quality.

    But for the price ($22K)... eh, you know, I just want to avoid the shop and the hassles of warranty repairs. I once owned a Ford Contour and I want to say "never again, Ford". My old Outback had very little problems and very favorable TCO so if I see the same out of my new Outback I will be satisfied and may continue to buy Subarus. Even though it's a wagon I appreciate the way it looks, I like the image it invokes - it suggests I am an educated, passionate, financially-secure, liberal-minded, outdoorsy-type who is confident enough to drive a station-wagon instead of a dreadful SUV. This kind of stuff can be a little hookey but it's true to a certain extent. Whenever I am at the trailhead or launch ramp, I always see Subarus, one after another after another. It's like a fraternity.
  • I think your points about the isolation and refinement are interesting. Did you get a chance to try the '05-07? We have really enjoyed our '05, but it still lacks the NVH characteristics of an Accord or Camry (although I think that is one of the reasons we like it so much).
    I thought your comments about drive-by-wire were interesting also. I thought the 03/04 still had a cable, but it might have been an early drive-by-wire implementation. I always felt that having a real cable controlling the throttle was smoother and more responsive than the computer controlling it, as it took out a few middle-men (you push gas, gas pulls cable, cable opens TB vs you push gas, electrical sensor reads pedal position, relays information to computer, computer runs algorithm to determine how much gas it should put in, tells the fuel system to put that much fuel in...etc).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Funny thing is she showed up last night at my house, our kids had a play date. She still has the loaner Ford. It's been over a month now! I didn't have the heart to ask her about it, but it was engine trouble last time I asked. :sick:
  • feilofeilo Posts: 128
    Gandalf ( ;) ) - Did you get a 5MT?
  • I did not drive the 05-07. The 08 is merely refreshed so it should not behave much differently. Before I bought the 03 Outback I owned an 01 Accord Coupe and I wouldn't consider it to be superior to the 08 in the NVH department (of course there is a 7 year gap). I do know that my 03 Outback model had a mechanical linkage not drive-by-wire. I am not bothered by the inherent electronic complexity of DBW because any new car is loaded with CPUs and circuit boards anyway.

    I got a 5MT and this is one area where I want a traditional mechanical design. I know it is only a matter time before all cars (save performance/specialty cars) have mandatory automatic transmissions, even though these will likely be advanced (6+ speeds, CVT, etc). There's just no way in hell I am going to buy a 2008 model with an archaic 4 speed slushbox...and then pay $600-$1000 extra for it! That's just nuts.

    I would have considered the 2008 CR-V but since Honda killed the MT for the current generation, Subaru re-earned my business. The only alternative I felt I had was the Suzuki SX4...just not the right fit.
  • The 4 speed AT is really not that bad, their are ceratainly much worse 4 and 5 speed ATs out there. The 5 speed ZF in my VW Passat wasn't any better and it had a extra cog, plus is had ridiculously expensive proprietary fluid requirements.
  • The 4AT in the Outback may indeed be OK - I can't judge because I haven't driven it. But I'm incredulous that a 4 speed automatic is a $1000 option. Maybe it costs that much because it offers clutchless manual shifting. But still, $1000 ($1200 for XT)? I suppose I should be grateful that I can drive a stick since I am saving a bundle.*

    * - Heh, yea, until I trade in the car! Dealers like to low-ball you on your 5MT trade because they say "nobody wants manuals".
  • nickelnickel Posts: 147
    Hi. Just wondering who is responsible for changing the tires in a lease car, like after 20,000 miles, the company or the buyer?
  • Unless you have a service contract the lessee is responsible for all maintenance including replacing wear items like tires. Subaru's standard warranty picks up the tab for brake pads, clutch linings and wipers (among other things) but tires are not covered.
  • feilofeilo Posts: 128
    Hi shrinermonkey - wasn't sure it was you until you mentioned this in your post above;

    The 5 speed ZF in my VW Passat wasn't any better and it had a extra cog, plus is had ridiculously expensive proprietary fluid requirements.

    I'm close to leaving the world of VW too ... do you have an OB?
  • Gee, it would be wonderful if the leassor paid all maintenance on the car, but unfortunately all us leasees pay and pay and pay. Tires, oil changes, brakes, windshield wipers and everything else that wears out not covered by warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    It costs $1000 because that's what some bean counter figured the market would bear.

    Retail cost of the option likely has little to do with actual costs.
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    does anyone know if the speedometer on the OB or any Sube is specific for the OEM tire size?
    I mean, would a say 08 OB with stock 17in wheels have the speedometer calibrated differently than say the base OB with the 16in wheels or would the manufacturer consider that for such a small difference (about 0.3in diameter for stock tires) that one car will be "inaccurate" and the other "accurate". It seems that quite often even comparable tire sizes are in reality different in diameter by 1/2in or more or even between different makes of the same size tire. It would certainly seem that if different wheel sizes are optional on a specific model it would be too much of a hassle in the factory to make sure the speedometer was specifically calibrated for one tire size.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Generally they set the speedo for the largest stock tire, so smaller tires would read a little fast.

    I believe odometer laws actually prohibit them from reading fewer miles than have been actually traveled, hence my reasoning for that logic.
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    thanks juice, makes sense.
    will probably get 215/65-16s for winter - 0.1in larger than the stock 17in RE92As (then when I replace the junk stock Potenzas with Nokians in the future I can put those 215s on another car which comes with 215/65-16s - the Sienna!)
    now all I need is my darn car to be delivered from lafayette! I asked for a PZEV spec one and its taking forever, I just missed the cutoff for an order for Sept delivery!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You realize September is going to feel like the longest month in your life?
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    and so was the last half of August and likely October as well!! :-)
    I can't understand why the dealer says he doesn't get a definite date till they are almost delivered! whatever! I'm saving on my car insurance as I got rid of my 98 legacy already though with the insurance company having tripled the rate on one car as we put our 16year old on, it doesn't make too much difference in the end! at least its a girl and not a boy, probably quadruple or quintuple if it were a boy! can't wait till next year when the oldest boy is 16 too!
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The speedos are set to the size of the tire that is delivered on the car. Larger diameter tires will result in a lower milage, smaller diamter will result in more milage.

    -mike
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    hmmm, so I guess I should not go with the 225-60-16 even though thats the "old" OB size.
    thanks mike.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    You should have kept the 98 Legacy as a beater, and put only liability insurance on it, for your daughter to drive. Your insurance rate may actually drop.
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    the comprehensive was only about 40 bucks or something for the year for the 98.
    she actually drives a windstar if she drives anything regularly as she helps take the other kids to their music lessons and they have lots of musical instruments to cart around.

    the 08 Outback LTD came into the dealer last night and I just picked it up!! there is even a PZEV logo on the tailagte!

    just saw Tirerack are advertising TPMS sensors for subes for their winter packages for about 40 bucks, so maybe I won't just use black tape over the light on the dashboard after all!
    can you just add a TPMS sensor to any sort of wheel? I was going to use my 16in WRX wheels for winter. I still will have to pay the dealer to reprogram the sensors but it beats the 100+ bucks the parts dept said the sensors were.
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    shoot, looks like Tirerack will only sell the sensors with a wheel! :mad:

    back to the black tape, is electrical tape or duct tape more aesthetic on the dashboard?? :D
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    Try Ebay. I bet that you can find the sensors pretty cheaply there.

    -mike
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    only thing I can find there is a whole new system, not just the sensors.
    anyone know the manufacturer of the Subaru sensors?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 29,178
    Have you tried calling them? I know they sell the BMW sensors ala carte..

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