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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I'll respond directly since you're shopping...

    Yes, actually I drove your car, a wagon with Sportshift. It was the 2nd of the 3 cars I took on the infield course (see review in Meet the Members). The instructor held me back, but not the car.

    I was impressed. You'll recall I thought the auto took the edge off the Forester XT? Not so here. The tranny prevents lag by choosing the right gear. It also doesn't hesitate to shift like the F-XT did. In essence, I felt my lap times would be no worse with the Sportshift, and we didn't even get to use the buttons on the steering wheel.

    I'm sure the 5MT is half a second quicker, but we're talking 5.5 to 6.0 seconds, i.e. mega-super-ultra fast vs. merely super-ultra fast. I'll still be envious.

    They mentioned Nav, and not the others, so I don't think so. It was broad day light in the desert so we could not try any of the lights, inside or out.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,725
    Can't answer that yet, but my guess is that it's a non-issue. We didn't drive the GT wagon under street conditions. The VDC we drove on the highway was VERY quiet.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The GT wasn't that loud at 125 mph, so road noise is *not* a problem. Still, the VDC felt more quiet.

    What I can't comment on is the ride on the Legacy GT. The Legacy 2.5i soaked up some man-made bumps they put out for us to drive over, but the GT has lower profile tires on bigger rims, and the track was smooth as a baby's bottom.

    I'll upload some pics now...

    -juice
  • pon1pon1 Posts: 196
    Thanks Juice (& Bob)! Just the info I needed. About as close as I can get without driving myself. Considering there are no 05 cars in Canada yet (someone correct me) I suspect we will have to wait till about July for the XT and the H6. The OB XT LTD is just not affordable here, needs a price cut or a base model, so it's the base H6 or the FXT (as the GT rides too low and will get beaten up on camping trips). JP
  • salbaby1972salbaby1972 Posts: 165
    The new 05s are up on www.subaru.com for you to build and price. Has more pics.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Posts: 381
    Bob and Juice - Thanks for the reviews! Sounds like you guys had a blast! I have yet to make it over to MTM but so far so good. ;-)

    Ken - I too am deciding between the 5EAT and 5MT. Sounds like it will be a close call indeed. Guess I'll have to drive both!

    On the topic of stability control...all I know is what I've read like many of you. I'm surprised it's not an option on more Subaru's as well. I'm sure it will "trickle down" to all models soon, but in the mean time if the car you really want doesn't have it take the $2000 you would have spent on it and take some sort of performance driving course. It will serve you better in the long run.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    You'll recall I thought the auto took the edge off the Forester XT? Not so here. The tranny prevents lag by choosing the right gear. It also doesn't hesitate to shift like the F-XT did.

    Grrr...I'm happy to read this but frustrated at the same time. I get the feeling this tranny will never make its way into the current generation of Forester XT.

    The new Legacies/OBs are handsome cars and are poised to take the marque to a new level. Still I would feel uneasy doing things to one of these that I'd do to a Forester with no hesitation. Things like throwing one down a dirt or gravel road, crossing a plowed field to get to a remote fish pond, or carrying a load of mulch, stone, or greasy old car parts in the back.

    Maybe these new cars are too nice for me?

    Ed

    PS: Oh, yeah - nice reports, guys. ;-)
  • trevian2trevian2 Posts: 22
    Does the rear seat of the legacy sedan fold down for 2005?
  • beanboybeanboy Posts: 442
    Just a pass-thru. Have to step up to the wagon.

    -B
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    "The new Legacies/OBs are handsome cars and are poised to take the marque to a new level. Still I would feel uneasy doing things to one of these that I'd do to a Forester with no hesitation. Things like throwing one down a dirt or gravel road, crossing a plowed field to get to a remote fish pond, or carrying a load of mulch, stone, or greasy old car parts in the back."

    - I was under the impression that the OBs have greater ground clearance and less overhang vs. the previous editions, which should make them much more capable running off-road and doing some (if not all) the things you do with your Forester. Previously, I know the Forester had much less of an overhang than the OBs, with a shorter wheel-base, which made them much more capable off-road vehicles.
  • sodak2sodak2 Posts: 4
    I test drove the 2005 Legacy 2.5i today at noon time. It was the Lite-Blue color with a 5-speed MT trans. I drove it up and over Parley's Summit in Utah. Parley's Summit is between Salt Lake City, Utah and Park City, Utah. On my trip out I drove the vehicle in a conservative fashion (w/. A/C on). The vehicle took the 10 to 12 mile stretch of 6% to 8% grade with no down shifting required, no power lose, and no speed reduction. The RPM held constant. However, to increase speed I had to down shift. This was not possible with either the MT5 trans or AT in the 2004 model I test drove a month earlier on the same route. It handles great, but all the Legacy I tested have handled great. The interior is nice and clean (IMO). All in all I am glad I waited for the 2005 model. I look forward to a purchase in the near future.
    PS. I am a long time Honda Accord owner since 1985. I look forward to the change.
  • snowbirdsnowbird Posts: 120
    Thank you Bob and Juice for your excellent impressions.

    Would it be fair to say that driving on long journeys on highways, the Outback H6 is more comfortable in terms of wind/road noise and seating?
  • cusafrcusafr Posts: 184
    I was not sure if I wanted the Legacy GT Limited or the Outback LL Bean.

    After your review, I have now made up my mind!

    I WANT BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks for the great reviews.

    CUSAFR
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Posts: 1,676
    Did you happen to notice the thick "tape" like pieces scattered throughout the interior (under the hood, under carpet, in the cargo area, etc.? I wondered what they were. They were very heavy to the touch. I was told that they are in strategic points to go along with other sound deadening materials in the vehicles. It seems so well thought out - IMBO!

    Patti
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,725
    I doubt it. Wind noise, or lack-there-of should be the same. The GT does have slightly larger side bolsters on the seat back, which may be good or bad depending on your perspective. They're designed to better hold you in place during aggressive cornering.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the GT has slightly faster steering than the other Legacys and Outbacks. It has 2.8 turns lock-to-lock; whereas other models, including the Outback XT, have 3.4 turns lock-to-lock. The turning circle is the same for all models, at around 34.5.' The GT also has larger brakes.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,725
    Patti, no, I missed that. Maybe juice saw that?

    Bob
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    I just saw the wheels they are sticking on the 2.5i models (SOA website), they are the same wheels on the 05 WRX. Comparing the 2.5i and the 2.5GT pictures, the GT looks awesome while the "i" looks like it should be on a rental lot. I even Photoshopped out the hood scoop on the GT to remove one more visual difference. Those 16" wheels make the "i" look like a dog. Maybe it will look better in person, we'll see. If not, that's a big strike against the Legacy in my Legacy vs. Accord downselect with the wife.

    Craig
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Actually, the wheels on the 2.5i are similar to the WRX's, but I do not think they are the SAME. I may be wrong, as Im not an expert on the WRX. However, I have seen the 2.5i up close, and can tell you that it looks far from like it belongs on a rental lot.

    Im sure youre aware that Accord DXs, LXs, and LX V6 come standard with wheel covers, right? And the rubber on the EX 4 Accord is 15 inches compared to the 2.5i's 16? You also wont find the jazzy chrome finish dual exhaust on the Accord, or on rental cars, but I digress.

    Im just curious as to why you feel the 16-inch wheels make the 2.5i look like a "dog" compared the GT. The only differences are the hood scoop, and the larger wheels/tires. (Personally, I think the 5 spoke alloy design of the GT is more generic than the split-spoke design on the 2.5i.

    ~alpha
  • subewannabesubewannabe Posts: 403
    Many thanks , Juice and Bob, for your selfless dedication to spreading the word to the Crew! Great reports, including the $40.00 wallet report on the way home. The Bellagio , esp., is truly amazing..you have to wonder how much the average visitor leaves in Vegas to pay for that level of excess.

    Re: my prior post, I should have specified stability control, not traction control. The state of the art systems integrate engine controls, individual wheel braking and lots of sensors to react far quicker than any human could. A trained driver will be better able to keep a car out of trouble than an ordinary driver, but no driver is perfect and black ice, for example, recognizes no professional driving certifications .
       Fence-wise, my wife has really gotten into this adventure and now realizes that the Subarus generally get better gas milage than most comparable AWD vehicle. I was shocked by her report on the milage numbers for the Sorrento, the Santa Fe, the Freelander, etc.

    Mark
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    The Accord EX comes with 16" wheels and tires, that's the model we've been comparing to.

    The WRX is a classic example -- the fenders were sized and proportioned to look great with 17" wheels, which is the standard size in Europe and Japan. The WRX has always looked ingrown with the smaller 16" wheels offered in the US.

    I am guessing it may be the same story with the Legacy. It looks spectacular with the 17" wheels, no doubt. But I really find the 16" looking a little "off" (part of it may also be the less agressive split spokes). I came across more pics from SubieGal, and it just confirms my impression.

    BTW, you can compare Legacy 2.5i and WRX pictures on the Subaru website (they both have images of the wheels in their photo galleries). The wheels are the exact same but painted slightly different colors -- silver on the Legacy, light bronze on the WRX.

    Craig
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    True point, my apologies on the Accord EX 4 cyl wheels. About Legacy vs. WRX wheels.. in my book, if they're different colors, that makes them different, not the same. You might want to check out the Legacy in person, thats all Im saying.

    ~alpha
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 15,670
    if the only thing you don't like about the car is the wheels, the dealer would be more than happy to swap them/upgrade them in most cases.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (daughters college car)

  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    "The WRX has always looked ingrown with the smaller 16" wheels offered in the US. "

    - Is this because of the cost factor to keep the WRX below the $25K threshold, when it was introduced, and to give it a better ride quality (compared with the European cars) for American roads?
  • dlydrvrdlydrvr Posts: 18
    Is it just me or is 250hp not enough?

    The Legacy is the only Subaru option for the current WRX driver to move up to. A 13hp increase and 33 torque bump for 200 extra pounds does not cut it.

    I could not live with myself if I moved up to a 250hp Legacy when there are 280hp Infiniti's, 300hp Mustangs,and 340hp Hemi Magnums available at similar prices.

    Subaru, I am not the only WRX driver who feels this way. I don't want our relationship to end after my WRX. I think you know what needs to be done. 2006 Subaru Legacy STi.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,725
    This model was not at the Las Vegas Dealer Convention. However, juice and I were able to get brochures on both the Legacy and Outback. So if you need any specific questions answered, fire away.

    The Outback brochure indicates that the Outback sedan will come only with the H-6, and it's will only come in monochromatic paint. So no more 2-tone Outback sedans. I think that makes sense, as I think this will have a better chance of luring those who are wishing for a Legacy H-6 sedan.

    Also, some models will now allow you a choice of two interior colors per exterior color.

    Bob
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    stickguy: of course, I could always upgrade the wheels myself (that was the first upgrade I made to my WRX). But that's going to add, at minimum, $1200 to the price of the car, which is already about $1200 more than a comparably equipped Accord EX (except for AWD, obviously). My wife would laugh me right out of credibility if I pitch that one.

    kevin111: The WRX definitely rides better on the stock 16" wheel/tire combo than on 17", and costs held equal, a 16" wheel will generally be lighter than a 17" wheel. Rotational mass affects the WRX quite bit in acceleration department. So, 16" is the better choice for all around comfort, cost, and faster acceleration times. Whether or not these factors were driving the decision, I don't know.

    Craig
  • lark6lark6 Posts: 2,565
    I must respectfully disagree. Several WRX owners have replaced their cars with Forester XTs and many of them appear to be pleased with the change. (edit: There is, of course, the WRX STi...)

    I'd reserve judgment on the Legacy's power and performance vis-a-vis the cars you mention until having driven all of them.

    Ed
  • chronochrono Posts: 149
    Do I even want to take the bait? Your all over the place buddy. The GT is a sports sedan. The 280hp is only reserved for the g35 coupe. The Hemi twins are substantially larger cars that weigh about 4000lbs. And you threw in a rustang? Gimme a break. Let's compare apples to apples. Look at the TSX, g35 sedan, 325, 330 or even a TL. If your a horsepower junky get an STI. The GT is a high performance, AWD, sedan that is refined. 250hp might not sound great when you just throw out HP numbers but power to weight ratio is good. The GT weighs around 3300 lbs combined with AWD, razor sharp steering and a nice interior makes it very competative in it's segment if not leading the pack. Lastly, I'm sure there will be mods available to increase HP since the GT is a turbo ....
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Stock WRX is 227HP, so you'd gain 23HP going to the Legacy GT (plus a larger displacement motor that is a heck of a lot easier to live with than the WRX's frenetic on/off powerplant). I believe the power to weight ratios are pretty close between the cars.

    Craig
  • dlydrvrdlydrvr Posts: 18
    I don't care if it is a sedan or coupe.
    I want a high performance, AWD, sedan that is refined.
    I have faith in Subaru, I think they can do
    that with 300hp.
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