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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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  • hypovhypov Posts: 3,068
    didn't do measurements; visualising from memory, the dimension looks to be less than 2 DIN but larger than 1 DIN.

    -Dave
  • shizumaatshizumaat Posts: 12
    By all means, post more info about your stereo set up, I'd be interested in seeing/reading about setups that allow direct iPod connections... thanks
  • purduealum91purduealum91 Posts: 223
    Love that diesel engine. In my Golf, on a summer trip from Chicago to NJ, avg 70 mph, A/C on, 3 adults, a dog, and a full hatch - 50 mpg! I had ZERO problems with my Golf. Best car I ever had.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Sounds like the Legacy GT really does compete well with the sports sedans in that arena.

    I am guessing that the WRX is more of a raw/no compromise peformance car - thus the lack of niceties, harsher ride, and less lean?

    I will concede that the GT is faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile than the WRX though.
  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    Sorry for the double post but I got no response over in the Forester XT forum.

    I note that the '05 OB-XT (MT) is rated higher for gas mileage than the '04 F-XT (MT). Is this just an aerodynamic advantage, or is the engine tuned/geared more towards that goal? Does anyone know of any performance changes planned for the '05 F-XT (MT)?
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Maybe they changed the gearing. It was a little on the stump-puller side.

    Craig
  • hi guys. im new to the subaru forum.i just wanted to tell everyone that i work for subaru but i do not intend to sell or make any money from this site.in fact, as i get time and info i would like to give information to all subaru owners about how great a product it really is,current important info,test drive results, ect.i was a long time corvetteforum member and there dealers provide a great amount of useful info for the people.i just thought i could do the same for this group.i took an 05 out back out today and alls ill say its great.i also took a test drive in a new impreza and it felt like it was stuck to the road.were waiting on new programs for subaru products and i thought i would let everybody know what the current incentives are soon. also remember i am new to subaru and as i learn more about the car and related info ill let you know.i have learned alot about this car from forum members here already and would like to say thanks for being here!...charlie
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    I just received my July issue of Automobile and all it had was a very short summary of the OBXT (5EAT). No real in-depth review.

    People in other forums have seen the July issue of C&D and R&T -- similar deal. No real reviews.

    So is that it for the media coverage? I'm a little disappointed at the lack of media interest in these models. Did Subaru's PR agency pitch these stories on the magazines?

    Ken
  • radracerradracer Posts: 96
    mouth, you didn't explain WHY you found the steering wheel buttons useless. did they not make sense to you? or was it that you just didn't feel there was a purpose to have those buttons on the wheel?

    btw, has anyone driven the GT sedan? i'm assuming the handling would be better than the wagon. also, body roll does not necessarily mean poor handling at the limits.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Posts: 381
    radracer,
    I've driven both the sedan and the wagon. While one was an automatic and one was a manual, I otherwise couldn't tell them apart until I got out and saw the difference. Granted I wasn't tracking them but I feel that unless you're pushing them to their absolute limits you'll have a hard time telling them apart. The wagon is a bit heavier so it may be a couple tenths of a second slower to 60 mph, but that weight is at the back which make make it feel more balanced in the twisties.

    Even those who have driven them hard on a track say the same. Search for ateixeira's and rsholland's posts about their drives from an invite only even in Las Vegas a couple weeks ago. Heck, just go back about 10 pages or so in this thread and you should be able to read their impressions.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • 50thstate50thstate Posts: 1
    "The Car Connection" has posted their review dated May 31, 2004 about the 2005 Legacy (gee, I hope I don't get in trouble for posting this on Edmunds site!):

    http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=181&sid=181&a- - rticle=7169

    It's quite a favorable review. Still am looking for magazine reviews, too.

    Right now I have a basic 4 door sedan and would like something that can haul more kids and their stuff. I'm considering the '05 Legacy wagon and am anxiously awaiting its arrival in late June/early July in Hawaii. That website also has a "spy shot" of the upcoming 2006 Subaru 7 passenger car, which looks quite intriguing. Anyone know more about that one?
  • yesterday, sight unseen, based on all the helpful advice/info on this forum...I am returning to the US from overseas next week and decided I'd just buy rather than deal with car rentals - and the dealer had just want I wanted in stock (right color - silver- too!)....

    So, this is just a thank you to all the contributors here and Edmunds - really great to have access to this sort of information....

    Will post a few lines of review after I pick her up and drive a bit...
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    I'm not certain what everyone considers a real review but the C&D issue I received yesterday has about a two page write up on the 05 Outback. I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it was definitely more than the "Short Takes" that they sometimes have.
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Excellent! That's the same trim and color I'm waiting on right now. Please post your impressions when you get it. BTW, did you get 5MT or 5EAT?

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Congrats! I'm envious.

    Glad to hear all the positive comments on the ride. GT better than Accord, OB better than Camry, and people seem generally pleased overall with the ride.

    I think soft is not always best, Subaru tuned it to be well controlled and I prefer it that way, just not harsh either.

    Someone said there was no free service? True, but get the Chase Subaru Card and the 3% reward in Subaru Bucks will cover your service easily (if you use your card as much as I do). Voila, free service, life time.

    Interesting to see someone cross shop a Pilot. The Honda feels like a semi compared to the Outback. Taller, bigger, heavier, ride is harder and handling not even close. The performance just isn't there. For a family vehicle, it's a great value, but I just don't it compares with the dynamics of the Outback.

    In fact, I think a minivan would compare more closely to a Pilot. If you don't go off road, wouldn't an Odyssey truly serve you better? It's cheaper and more fuel efficient, if you're really shopping for value.

    Mazda6's rust issue scared us away. I love my Miata but our 626 was a money pit, and parts are hugely expensive. $28 for a gas cap for my Miata. Ouch. But that's nothing compared to the $220 for an O2 sensor for our 626. Don't buy without checking prices for parts first.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    XT vs. Bean? Tough one, but I'd pick the XT. The turbo engine is a lot quicker but only slightly less refined. Mileage is the same and price is better, so my pick is the XT.

    Of course if it were a car in which I'd shuttle around clients or my mother-in-law, the refined H6 might be better.

    Outback or Legacy? This is a tough one. I prefer to drive the Legacy by far. But how often do you really get to carve those canyons? How many curvy roads are there?

    The Outback offers real-world ground clearance for speed bumps, snow accumulations, and the occasional trail. Then again how often do you need to go on those trails? Only you can answer that.

    Get two. A Legacy for me, and Outback for the wife. We'd take the OB to the beach and camping, the Legacy for longer road trips on pavement.

    Price? Ah. Isn't it ironic? We ask for plusher carpets, more content, more power, more space, bigger moonroofs, bigger rims, and when we get it and realize you get what you pay for, we whine about price. :o)

    Compare to Passat 4Motions, Audi Quattros, Jaguar X types, and you see value, IMO. Mazda6 and TSX are budget alternatives but both are FWD and neither is nearly as quick.

    Besides, Subaru has the Forester XT, and I've seen a few dip below $23 grand in price. For 2005 you can get the MT5 with leather and moonroof, probably about $25k, that's their bang-for-the-buck model. Rumor has it they revised the throttle-by-wire for better fuel economy for 2005, too. We'll see.

    alum: absolutely, go on the SIA tour, I'm sure you'd be very welcome.

    -juice
  • rob_mrob_m Somewhere North of BostonPosts: 807
    That's what I did!

    I have my 99 GT LTD for daily commuting to work, and my wife has the 03 Outback for errands, weekends and ski trips. Your idea is not so crazy .... it works for me!
  • moutbackmoutback Posts: 39
    "mouth, you didn't explain WHY you found the steering wheel buttons useless. did they not make sense to you? or was it that you just didn't feel there was a purpose to have those buttons on the wheel?"

    Both. They don't make sense because there's no purpose in having shifter buttons on the wheel of an automatic transmission, whereas they make sense for BMW's SMG (and for F1 cars). Sure, they may be convenient and even useful at times, but that convenience/usefulness is very marginal when compared with the convenience of audio controls on the wheel, which are infinitely more convenient and useful (and safer too). (See BMWs w/SMG--they have paddle shifters AND audio/temp controls.) But the shifter controls now resemble the tacky set on the Pontiac Grand Prix (which BTW has audio controls too)--not good. The most irritating part is the fact that Subaru has the technology, but won't offer it for all models--the same, cheap tactic it employs on new generation cars. This is not the way to reach out to an "upscale" market.
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Usually, I consider anything more extensive than the "Short Takes" to be a full review in C&D. The full reviews will have performance data taken by the C&D staff.

    That's good to know that the C&D article is a bit more substantial. Based on the NABISCO forums, it appeared it was just a short take. The Automobile article is definetly a much more abbreviated article.

    Ken
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Posts: 1,640
    my Chase Subaru allows up to $500/yr for 4 years for a total of $2,000 max. Is your card different? That wouldn't cover "lifetime" service, if I hang on to my Forester beyond 2007.

    John
  • Ken, I got the 5EAT. I was essentially neutral between the manual and the 5EAT, and the one they had available is 5EAT. I drove a 2005 OB with the 5eat last month and thought it was fun enough that I wouldn't miss the manual...
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,712
    I agree, the media coverage on the new Legacys and Outbacks to date has been nothing but lousy at best. I don't know if SOA's marketing dropped the ball or what.

    Bob
  • zman3zman3 Posts: 857
    FWIW I think the C&D article was an Outback XT with the 5EAT. The only gripe I concluded from the quick scan of the article was the speed in which the auto kicked down when pushed. They seemed to have a favorable opinion on the manual feature of the auto.
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Bob,

    Part of my responsibilities here at work are managing new product introductions. One of the tasks I need to do is make sure we have good media coverage when we intro a new product. I work with our PR agency to pitch our product and story to various publications to get in queue for future issues. Unless it's a very visible product with high anticipation, we need to do quite a bit of selling to get on the editors' lists.

    Maybe I should go work for Subaru and get some Legacy and OB reviews written!

    BTW, have you seen any of the new TV ads? They're different from what Subaru has done in the past, but I'm not sure it grabs my attention. "I have X-ray vision" -- really?

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I like the buttons on the wheel - in aggressive driving you don't have to take your hands off the steering wheel, like for shifting on a wide turn.

    However, the tranny is smart to begin with so the manual mode becomes far less important.

    John: $2000 max for one transaction, like a new car purchase. I don't think that's the lifetime maximum.

    You could pay for oil changes, tire rotations, and the 30k service and still have some left over. Then you could begin accumulating more credit to pay for the 60k service later on. I think the Subaru Bucks coupons are valid for 4 years.

    I like the ad with two views of Lance and the Outback, it's pretty neat.

    -juice
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Posts: 381
    I got to test drive both this past weekend and to say I'm impressed would be an understatement.

    A little preface though, I haven't driven nearly as many cars as some of you on this board and I'm coming from a 1997 Honda Civic and my wife drives a '93 Acura.

    XT impressions:
    It was a limited model with the 5EAT wearing the Atlantic Blue Pearl with Granite Gray cladding and charcoal leather. I drove this first and was hard pressed to tell it was 8.7 inches off the ground. It felt very smooth and NVH was nearly non-existent. The auto tranny felt very smooth compared to my wife's Acura (the only other automatic I have a lot of experience with). I got it on some twisties but this is a route with a lot of bicyclists (I know as I ride these roads all the time on my bicycle) so I didn't open it up too much. Didn't seem to roll all that much (more on this later). I didn't play with the manual funcion of the tranny as much as I could have as it felt strange to me to not have a clutch involved in the shifting process. I'm sure I'd get used to it though. On the other hand, I don't know that I'd use it all that much because the "sport" mode felt great to me.

    GT impressions:
    I actually drove an automatic sedan limited (Atlantic Blue Pearl with charcoal leather and a spoiler) right after the XT and then the next day found a manual wagon (also limited in Atlantic Blue and charcoal) at another dealership in my area. The first noticeable difference of course is the suspension. The GT felt much "tighter" right off the bat. Just going over some rough pavement leaving the dealership I could tell this was a different animal all together. Still a very quiet and smooth ride. You definitely feel the road more in the GT though. Not in a bad way, in a more connnected to the pavement sort of way. Likely the slightly more taught suspension set up and lower profile tires coming into play.

    The manual transmission felt just great. I thought I might have trouble like I did with a friends brand new Audi S4 which I killed at a stoplight a couple times before getting the hang of the clutch. No problem in the GT. It was plenty smooth and not grabby in the least.

    I was really happy I fit with that big moonroof in the wagon. With some of the reviews in this discussion saying they didn't have enough head room I was worried. No problem though as I'm 6'1" with a 34" inseam. The seats felt good. Not as aggresively bolstered as my wife's Acura, but she's had complaints from co-workers who are a bit more rotund than I that they're too tight. So I guess I'll have some room to grow. ;-)

    My only complaint is the lack of adjustability in the front passenger seat. A tilting seat bottom would have been nice as would an inch or two more rearward. I wasn't able to stretch my legs quite enough. Definitely NOT a dealbreaker. Maybe the seat rails can be modified for a bit more room.

    As a comparison I also drove a Volvo V70R automatic. I didn't get to push it in the least as the salesman was along for the ride. While it did feel quite good, it wasn't $12,000 better so I'll be going with a Subaru.

    Overall, very impressive offering from Subaru. Like I said though, I haven't driven many comparable vehicles besides the V70R and S4 Avant.

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,712
    Yeah, you got my vote for heading SOA's marketing.

    Yes, I have seen the TV ads, and I like them a lot. I also just saw a double-page Outback ad in R&T, and I think it's the best ad I've for Subaru to date. It's very well designed, and Subaru (the brand) looks very sophisticated and positions Subaru as an upmarket brand. Very nice indeed.

    Bob
  • The 2005 outback is sweet. period. the interior is much nicer than my 2000 outback and I'm very impressed with the styling revisions. But in terms of advertising, Subaru needs to get on the ball! I, a current owner, didn't know there was a new model at all until I just read these forums today and as a result researched on the web. I want to see some ads in TIME magazine, Newsweek and other magazines that people read. AND a catchy TV commercials like Nissan, Cadillac and Acura all do. C'mon Subaru, get advertising!!! Or this new model will be a flop :( no matter how good it is.
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    I had a little time before a meeting so I drove down to the nearby dealer. They had just received a GT Ltd sedan and wagon. Although it wasn't PDI'd, the salesperson let me take a quick drive on the wagon.

    The wagon was a silver 5EAT, just like the one I have on order. Despite the Check Engine light blinking, no AC, no stereo and plastic sheets on the exterior and interior, I was all smiles.

    We couldn't go far so I had about 5 minutes on local streets where I could not go above 35 mph. Even then, I was able to notice the difference between Sport and Normal modes. I even had a chance to try out the wheel mounted buttons too. With just mild throttle application, I could feel the car start to pick up speed. Nice.

    The only thing that I noticed, and perhaps it was due to being pre-PDI, was that the brakes felt a bit soft. I've read about the improved brake booster feel and was hoping for a real demo today.

    Oh, and the dealer was asking 3000 OVER MSRP. I looked at him as if he were crazy and he quickly came back with "don't worry, we can work that out".

    The dealer's lot was filled with OBs and 2.5is. The wagon I drove was parked next to an OB XT so I was able to get a very good side-by-side comparison. I like the appearance of the OB better from the front. The thicker bumper, bigger fogs, chrome bar and fender flares give it a very muscular Allroad-esque look. However (and this is my biased opinion), the GT lines flow a lot better from the side and to the back. The 2.5is did look a bit underwhelming -- I think it's the wheels.

    My waiting just got even more painful!

    Ken
  • check this out....the subaru products come in limp mode from the factory.at the base of the passenger footwell the panel there pulls off and inside is a wire plug that must be disconnected to be a full power on daily use.subaru does this so the cars dont load up in the little use they get until sold.secondly in the fuse panel under the hood is a 15 amp blue fuse that is 1 spot over in the dead position.this moved to its correct spot will activate all electrical componets.it all takes about a minute to set the car up to run rite.most salespeople should know this and should never test a limp mode car.hope this helps...charlie brown.
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