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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I think people here need to just allow a bit more time for the big advertising push associated with these vehicles. Dont forget, they are still fairly trickling into dealerships, and most are not NEARLY at full levels of inventory.

    Im not in the auto industry (YET!), but marketing is a ramp-up effort for many of the products Im familiar with, and I'd bet we are going to see A HUGE PUSH from SoA on the new Legacy/OB once they are more readily available- say, late summer.

    Somewhat unique in the market of non-luxury automakers, Subaru has the status of being a car with strong loyal following, whose ownership experience purports to, and does indeed, include a feeling community, and to some degree- reasonable exclusivity. It is because of this, that I feel a soft initial introduction can be well to Subaru's benefit, as its loyal following spreads word of mouth opinion on, and factual information about, these new and exciting vehicles. This in turn, continues the feeling of community (the Subaru fans are the ones that know about the car first, purchase the car first, enjoy the exclusivity, etc.), and re-inforces owner loyalty, whether or not the owners realize it- its nice to have something before everyone else.

    Afterwards, once the vehicle is fully stocked, more REAL PR is necessary, and Im sure it will come.

    Just my .02.

    ~alpha
  • cptpltcptplt Posts: 1,075
    Had a drive in a 05 Bean today, was actually hoping to find a GT but no dealers near me seem to have seen one yet or even an XT!

    It is much nicer than my 98 Legacy GT for sure. Have driven a friends VDC before and the power seems comparable to the old H6 despite the increased power . One thing for sure , the 5EAT sportshift is a zillion times better than any Audi or VW one I have used, they all seem to have this horrible delay before they actually shift.Its even smoother than on an E series Benz.

    I'm 5' 8" and no problems with head room despite the sunroof. Every recent Audi and Lexus I have been in seems to have the headliner about a half inch from my head no matter what I do with the seat in a driving position. There seems to be more headroom on the Bean. But I think I have a tall body and short legs ! Seats themselves seemed just fine for my torso though I was only driving for 15 minutes.It was in the 50s so I tried the heated seats. Hate those heated seats, makes me want to go to the you know where!

    The back seat seems to have less leg room than my 98 though! Yes, there is little footspace under the front seat for backseaters as some have found but not worse than on an E series or a LS400. Though the Lexus has oodles of leg room per se so needing the additional footspace is irrelevant for most people. The back seat headrests are perfect for me! Not that I will be back there much.I can also actually see quite a lot out of the back unlike every other wagon I have tried in recent years except for a V70!Having had a succession of wagons and hatchbacks for the last 2 decades as my main driver I have found all sedans very claustrophobic in the rear view mirror and it seems to be getting worse with recent cars. The vertical dimensions of the back window seems to be edging towards non existent in almost every sedan I sat in at the Chicago autoshow!

    Much less noise than my WRX! But the WRX feels more "tight" on curves and while I didn't go above 4500rpm I doubt the H6 could snap my head like the WRX can if really pushed it. The Bean is definitely the "luxo" cruiser compared to a WRX!

    I think the GT will definitely be replacing my 98 in the future here. Will wait till next model year though to see what additional goodies they add. Only problem with the GT is that it will need 17in tires for winter. Major $$ compared to 16 in wheels! Guess I'll have to go back to 16s all year on the WRX and move my 17s to the GT!
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    charlie brown, thanks for the info!

    Re: the marketing, I do agree that Subaru should be low key until they have a good supply of vehicles in dealers. Nothing angers customers more (especially loyal customers) than not being able to get the product they are excited about. I have watched Apple blow it numerous times by announcing and hype-ing up a product and then not delivering for weeks or months.

    Dennis -- you could certainly use 16" wheels and winter tires on a GT, assuming 16" wheels clear the calipers (surely some will).

    Craig
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Good info, Charlie. If I was only in limp home mode, I'm impressed!

    Ken
  • shizumaatshizumaat Posts: 12
    Hey has anyone driven/seen an 05 Outback XT with manual transmission? I'm wondering because the auto has shifting controls on the steering wheel, I'm hoping the manual trans version has stereo controls...

    Thx
  • kmartinkmartin Posts: 427
    I am thinking that perhaps the ads will come once a few more of the OBs show up at the dealers. Maybe we're just jumping the gun a bit.
    The dealers I have visited are also really pushing the last of the '04s, and there are factory incentives which are nice deal-makers out there.

    I have seen the new ads, but mostly on HGTV, TLC, and other "homey" type channels :-) I think they are right on the money as far as targeting the right type of consumer, but they need to get the word out to other networks!

    Also, I have read somewhere recently that Subaru has fired their ad execs and are looking to hire a new company. I hope their timing doesn't affect the OB's '05 premier.
  • kmartinkmartin Posts: 427
    Charile Brown, maybe you can solve my previously-posted seat belt chime dilemma. Any way to disable the nuisance chiming that keeps going on and off even when you're in park? Thx! -km-
  • "Oh, and the dealer was asking 3000 OVER MSRP. "...

    Ken, I'm paying $30,400 for my 5EAT GT LTD Wagon (plus tax and title)... a few % over dealer invoice, I think. Good luck "working it out" with your dealer...!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ian: glad to hear a tall guy fit nicely. I'm 6' tall and fit inside a Legacy GT Limited with a helmet! :o)

    Ken: that's funny, you thought it was peppy even in "limp bizkit" pre-PDI mode!

    Dennis: I also felt the 5EAT was brilliant. It really puts the H6 in its power band nicely.

    -juice
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Yes, it is a full review with over 4 pages. Spoke very highly of the Outback, they liked the raised-car approach and the peformance.

    0-60 in 7.1 secs. (auto)
    1/4 mile - 15.6 secs. (auto)

    - Comparible to a Honda Accord V6 sedan.
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Oh, don't worry. I'm NOT buying my Legacy at that dealership. The dealer that I am buying my Legacy GT is charging me a fixed $1000 over invoice. I just had to laugh when the salesman mentioned the $3K over MSRP without blinking.

    Unfortunately, the overpriced dealership is just down the street from the office whereas the reasonable one is on the other side of the Santa Cruz mountains.

    Ken
  • mfhmfh Posts: 37
    Do you mind sharing the name of the dealership that youre happy with vs the one youre not?

    Im assuming youre on the SF peninsula/South Bay.

    thanks

    Michael
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Not bad, with AWD and that raised suspension it still matched the 240hp Accord. And the Legacy is lighter plus with smaller diameter tires should be a few ticks quicker.

    Plus, you can get any of the turbos with a manual, Accord only comes that way in a coupe.

    -juice
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Curious to see. I am wondering if the Outback has a lower 1st and 2nd gearing for more off-roading, while the GT has a higher gearing in 2nd for better 0-60 times?

    Just curious.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I think gears are identical. But the GT has smaller diameter tires, so that means each gear is slightly shorter, and it should be quicker.

    Plus, it's lighter and more aerodynamic.

    Those 3 factors should put it about 1/2 second ahead, is my guesstimate. I say 6.5 seconds for the auto, just under 6 seconds for the MT5.

    -juice
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Michael,

    Sure, I'm buying from Santa Cruz Subaru. The overpriced dealer that I mentioned is Stevens Creek Subaru. They do price match on occasion, but they're a very old-school dealership in my opinion.

    Another good alternative to Santa Cruz is Carlsen. They also do no-haggle up-front pricing but they were asking full MSRP on the GT.

    Ken
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    I need a memory check -- didn't the original Subaru press release mention tire pressure monitoring on the GT also? I've learned that it's only available on the Bean and VDC models.

    Ken
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    I would be surprised if the GT sedan is not at least close with the Forester XT. The XT has been timed at 5.3 secs 0-60, so I expect the MT GT to be around that, maybe at 5.5. I think the better aerodynamics and weight will help. About 150 lbs. less than the Outback.

    Now, if C&D can finally do a test!!!
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Posts: 1,640
    don't forget the 40 more ponies for the GT. The 210 for the FXT turbo is on the conservative low cost insurance side, but the GT has a different peak HP rpm so I think the GT has more juice than the FXT engine.

    John
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Don't forget the effects of gearing however. 0-60 times are also very much about 1st and 2nd gear ratios. IIRC, the FXT is geared lower than the GT.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ken: H6 only, I believe. But the funny thing is that the models in Vegas we tested all had that warning light on. Not sure if the tires were aired down for the off road section, or what.

    -juice
  • rob999rob999 Posts: 233
    I think the primary difference in the GT vs Outback is the axle gearing. Someone posted these a while back. IIRC the GT has 4.11 gearing while the OB has a lower ratio.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,632
    regardless of which number is true, the turbo is a fast car. For normal use, the diff. between 6.4 and 6.9 (or 5.5-6.0, etc). isn't really significant, especially if you aren't running it at the strip.

    Makes you appreciate how good you have it now though if you can look at 7.0 for a mid-size AWD station wagon and have a caniption that it is "too slow".

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (daughter stole that one), and 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, *chuckle*.

    When I drove the Forester XT, I felt like I could pass anyone at any time, you just ease into the throttle. Pass at will. Really it has more power than anyone can reasonbly justify. It'll outrun most sports cars!

    -juice
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Yes, but don't forget the GT gets lower profile tires with a smaller circumference. IIRC, the net difference in effective gearing was relatively small.

    What I'd like to know is if the ECU map between the two are any different.

    Ken
  • andmoonandmoon Posts: 320
    I am going to admit I can't 'reasonably justify' this craving for power but i think half to one second isn't much if it's 9 or 10 seconds but I feel the diff from a 6 second 0-60 and 5 second 0-60 is quite big. I want it all! 0-60 in 5 sec. 30mpg highway. low NVH and great handling, loaded for 28K. Best part is the GT is almost there.
    It's like motorcycles...99% of the time I never even get close to using full power but that 1% or 0.1% when I do I love it and the rest of the time I love just knowing it's there.

    Somebody tell me how to reasonably justify a new GT to my wife.
    Don
  • Hey Kens. I have been doing some research on where to test drive and buy the Base Legacy 2.5i I think I want. I havent had a chance to get out of my office to test drive yet, but I have test drove the competition, Mazda 6 and Passat wagon. If the Legacy is 1/2 as good on paper in person Ill buy it. There is a lot of info on the NASIOC site about Carlsen, Stevens Creek, and the Santa Cruz Dealer. Do a search on there to find the info. There are some really crazy and funny stories about the Stevens Creek dealership. They have a horrible reputation based upon the info from that site. One post was from a guy who said they called him an idiot and an a**hole for not buying the car at their inflated prices. He obviously didn't buy a car there. He wrote letters to SOA and they werent very helpful either. Carlsen has a very good reputation according to posters at NASIOC as well as the Santa Cruz dealer. Carlsen is also supposed to have an excellent repair staff. I live a stones throw from Stevens Creek, but will pass on them. I'll try Carlsen first since I work close by. $1K over invoice for the GT sounds excellent as long as Destination Charge is not extra. CarsDirect has the GT listed at MSRP. 2.5i at $900 over invoice. When is yours supposed to be delivered?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I find that a little hard to believe, at least it had to have been provoked by something. Did he promise to buy there, they did all the work, then he walked to another dealer to save $10?

    You don't get cursed just for not choosing to be a customer there.

    Just remember, Nasioc is the same site where you have guys bragging about chirping the tires in 4th gear (yes 4th) with their heavily modified cars and then complaining that Subaru won't repair their tranny when it's shredded.

    I take it with a grain of salt...

    Don: not sure you can. Do you live at altitude? Turbos don't wheeze climbing steep hills. Safer passing if you live around lots of two-lanes. Stuff like that. Bigger brakes and better tires are safer. ;-)

    -juice
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Yes, Stevens Creek does have a reputation. I've been to all three so I know first-hand what they are like.

    Carlsen and Santa Cruz have both excellent sales and service staff. Actually, for a while, Santa Cruz had the edge, but I believe Carlsen has made an effort to up their service recently.

    In any event, you can take you Subaru to any dealer for service.

    My GT Ltd. Wagon is due in early July. Can't wait!

    Ken
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Posts: 1,676
    that your friend did not find our staff very helpful. I really hate hearing stuff like that. Possibly it was a situation where we were not permitted to intercede? Because of all of the fair trade laws, we are a bit limited on how much we can get involved with a retail sales transaction. That being said, we often are doing things on our side that might not be apparent to the retail customer. Whenever we are made aware of a problem at a dealership, we notify folks throughout the organization to try to get a resolution. I know that Stevens Creek has come a long way based on the feedback we received from customers and we've seen a real commitment to improvement. Maybe check it out for yourself?

    Anyway - if you do have a problem yourself, please let us know. We can always try!

    Patti
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