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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • mcjaymcjay Posts: 7
    Hi, I am from Vancouver, Canada.

    I am just wondering if anyone from Canada got their new legacy under MSRP. If so, what's the model and by how much.

    I am currently negotiating with my dealer now, can't wait to get it over with.

    Thanks.
  • grove4grove4 Posts: 95
    Alot of knowledge being thrown around here with the larger displacement vs smaller turbo.The post above about the auto/trans turbo spool up is right on.My auto fxt even with the low gearing takes a second from a dead stop until it wants to get up and move as opposed to the legacy GT 5sp.As far as mileage goes a subaru will always be a little less with all things being equal b/c it is AWD all the time.Now if you compare an outback with a X-terra or a Murano or even a Honda pilot the subaru faires pretty well in fuel mileage and performance.Another thing is a smaller turbo has less weight hanging over the front wheels so handling should be better.Hey,the way I see it is at least subaru gives you a choice on engines instead of the wimpy n/a four cyl and a V6.You can get a turbo 4 or a smooth 250hp H6.The one thing I am concerned about is gas prices going up and everyone else going with hybrid technology and subaru being left behind.I hear the new accord will have better peformance than the 240hp one now with civic gas mileage.Other manufactures will get better accelleration with electric motors and better gas mileage to boot.Will subaru be still slapping turbos on and getting only 25 mpg on premium?This wont be to much of an issue real soon if gas prices come down some and stay there.However, if hybrid technology is as great as what I am reading about then why would anybody not want it.This was a concern for me b/c I traded an accord for this legacy GT.And I got it when gas prices were the highest about a month ago with the accord getting 20 city 30hwy.All on regular gas unlike the subaru.But I really wanted the Legacy and thought prices were going to come down.I just think the doors to hybrid technology will open in a big way a few months from now and I just hope 4 or 5 years from now I am not stuck with car nobody wants b/c of the cost of operation.I see the posts about a 300hp legacy sti and I honestly think that if by then that 300hp isnt getting 40 or so mpg it is not going to be very desireable.Maybe subaru has some plans we dont know about and I hope they do.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Right now it is mainly Toyota and Honda producing the Hybrid technology.

    In other words, it is the large-manufacturer's game right now. Toyota and Honda have the revenue for their R&D that Subaru just does not have. Unless GM helps out.

    I believe Ford used Toyota's technology to build a hybrid Escape. GM is supposed to come out with a hybrid truck, but not sure who's technology they will use (if it is not their own).

    Honda's technology is simple while Toyota's system is extremely complex.

    FYI

    Toyota is planning on going hog wild with the Hybrid technology in the next few years.
    - The Hybrid RX400 and Highlander are comming out later this year (more power than earlier models)
    - A Hybrid sports car to replace the MR2 is comming out around 2008, with an approximate 300hp.
    - A new Lexus sports division (to compete with AMG) will be comming out with Hybrid sports versions of the LS and GS versions (the GS producing approximately 479 hp).

    All per Car and Driver
  • dsattlerdsattler Posts: 135
    According to my sales guy, when a dealer sells a car at invoice as part of the VIP program Subaru gives them some extra cash to make up for the low profit margin. I don't know how much and didn't ask.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Posts: 1,760
    but we have to come up with a new fence club for ken
  • luck11luck11 Posts: 425
    Check out the Subaru Crew - Canadian Owners thread.

    luck11 "Subaru Crew: Canadian Owners" May 25, 2004 3:28pm

    shizumaat picked up an XT in your neck of the woods (somewhat) for $900 under MSRP (which, IMHO, is very good considering models were just released here), but have not heard any other reports to date. Unfortunately, we don't have same purchasing power as as customers in the US. Therefore, if you can purchase for 2-3% over invoice, you have paid a fair price. But its too early.....demand is high. In this case, as with anything new on the market, the early bird gets the worm, but pays dearly for it. If you can wait a few months, you'll be able to negotiate a better deal. I waited 'till fall for my 00 OB and negotiated a very fair deal. Plan to do the same for my when I trade up to an 05.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Is it possible to "custom" order a Subaru? Specificially, a basic Legacy 2.5i 4A? And if it is possible, assuming that We'd like to take delivery in mid-October, when would be an appropriate time to order the car?

    Thanks!

    All these awesome reviews, commentaries, and purchases- make me want to drive away in one RIGHT NOW!!

    ~alpha

    PS- A while back someone posted that the Legacy Turbo is rated at 19/24.... I thought it was 19/25.... not a huge difference, but a difference nonetheless.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    Automatic is 19/24 manual is 19/26. Last year was 18/23 and 19/23 for the Forrester, so it is a little better.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Just checked the brochure- says 19/25. Are we talking OB or Legacy here? Same ratings for manual and auto, and sedan and wagon. Are the figures published in the literature wrong?

    ~alpha
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    I'm on a roll. I took up Bob's advice of checking out the H6 models and seeing if the 5EAT behaved any differently. This is my third test drive since last Thursday. ;-)

    Anyway , it was back to the local dealer to take a LL Bean out for a test drive. Unfortunatley, they had no VDCs on the lot. This was my first time in a 05 Outback and the higher ground clearnce is pretty evident. The interior with the wood inlay steering wheel has a more country club feel to it. Nicely done with the exception of the Momo AT shift knob. It looks *completely* out of place.

    The 5EAT with H6 does tip-in a bit stronger than with the 2.5T. That comes as no surprise as the extra 0.5L of displacement are right there. However, acceleration afterwards is unrushed and consistent all the way to redline. Overall it's a great package for composed driving, but it's not a thrilling ride.

    A few conering moves and the longer travel suspension makes itself noticed. There is quite a bit more body lean in the LL Bean, something I'm accustomed to with the Forester. Steering feels nicely weighted and the vehicle likes to track very straight.

    Overall it was a nice and polished ride, but it's not what I was looking for.

    After the drive, the salesperson offers a spin in a GT wagon, 5EAT. Sure, why not and we're off again.

    I don't know what it was this time, but the GT 5EAT felt stronger. When coming off a start, the pause until the rush of power hit seemed shorter and the engine/tranny overall more responsive. I was having fun!

    Could this be the same combination I had driven before? I know for a fact that I was driving a different vehicle than my previous test drive. Could there be a big vehicle-to-vehicle variation? Or was it simply the contrast after coming off the LL Bean model?

    The previous GT 5EAT I drove already had 168 miles on it and was obviously PDIed. The one I drove this afternoon was not fully PDIed (check engine light was on) and only had 28 miles so I don't think it could have been an issue of how broken in the tranny was. Maybe the previous model was filled with 87 octane gas?

    Anyway, I'm thinking I should sample a few more 5EATs before jumping to the 5MT camp. My dealer informed me that the Subaru had an early order cut off this month (for August delivery) so if I change my configuration, I'm looking at a September delivery now. Otherwise, I still have a 5EAT GT arriving in a few more weeks!

    Ken
  • zmanzman Posts: 200
    Ken,

    I notice that Swampy allocated a new fence club just for you (#2336). Since I don't have one to myself, I wonder if I could park there just for a while, if you don't mind (oh, and my wife, too--pretty demanding aren't we?).

    Here's the scoop:

    1. We have finally decided on the '05 OB MT. That's progress, considering we've been at this for almost a year (but, boy, I admit it's a lot of fun! And waiting for the '05 to come out was really worth it).

    2. Were going for the Limited package. I want leather and my wife wants the moonroof. We both want the upgraded audio system. So, that part of the puzzle has worked out, too.

    3. Atlantic Blue Pearl over Granite Grey Opal (who comes up with these color names?)

    4. Ooops! Here's the rub: 2.5i (the wife's choice). 2.5t (guess whose choice that is?) Anyone care to weigh in or vote on this issue? I have not driven the OB-XT, and they are hard to find still, especially in the MT, but I loved my test drive of the F-XT, and I'm expecting more or less similar results with the OB-XT.

    Hmmm....looks like we've got some work still to do, but my dealer said the same thing about allocations. It may be wisest just to wait until September, and pull it off then. Plus, there might be a touch more wiggle room then, and maybe gas prices will be more settled as well.

    Zman

    p.s. we're willing to pay rent.
  • jwatsjwats Posts: 72
    I was curious as to whether a couple of favorable reviews have been building early traffic and sales in Subaru dealers. This is a watershed product and launch for them, and you aren't " new" for long. Has anyone heard dealer feedback? are prices tightening up?

    Thanks
    John
  • andmoonandmoon Posts: 320
    I got my $25 test drive cert. in a mag/brochure yesterday and I saw that all models get dual exhaust with equal length headers. ( I think the picture was a na motor with two cats joining (2 to 1) then going to the back of the car with the usual cat/resonator/ muffler but instead of ending with a single can, a pipe leads from the left to the right to another can. I have a feeling the 2nd can is more for looks than performance.
     
    Does anyone know where the turbo sits in the leg/ob? It has to be close to the intercooler but that is right above the trans/diff/diff.

    In the wrx the left headers come over to the right and join the right ones before going to the turbo on the top right of the trans/center/front diff. not equal length.

    Don
  • bluesubiebluesubie Posts: 3,497
    No matter how many times I read the posts here, I always get thrown back to the middle of the posts (page 62, etc.).

    It's making it difficult to keep up with Ken's tranny dilemma. :-)

    Any tips??

    -Dennis
  • brupopbrupop Posts: 63
    Dennis, try SUBSCRIBING to this board. If you already do, maybe one of the moderators/staff can suggest something.

    GregB
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,674
    Ken, as I said earlier, get in as many test drives ahead of your purchase. That's the only way you'll get the answers you need—and it seems to be working. :)

    Whatever you ultimately end up with, I think you will then know deep down that you made the right decision.

    Bob
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Posts: 1,760
    ken, i believe your prior test drive order was MT than EAT. i think coming from the OB to EAT made the EAT issues not so noticeable.

    btw, you know you really want the MT.....

    i am also amazed at how strong some of our members are here. i cant visit a dealership unless i know i am buying a car.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    alpha: I'd order it 6-8 weeks before you wanted to take delivery.

    Ken: maybe that one had been on a few more test drives, and driven hard?

    Bottom line? Test drive YOUR car before you take delivery. If you feel it's hesitating, try another one. It's best if you're slightly flexible on color and options.

    -juice
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Thanks everyone for chiming in. Lots of great advice!

    Yes, I think the key is to test drive and test drive until I'm sure. The only problem is that the dealership I'm buying from is far away and I've overextended my welcome at the local locations. :-)

    juice: Driven harder, maybe, but it had the least number of miles out of all the 5EAT wagons I've driven; hence the discrepancy.

    Ken
  • Karen_CMKaren_CM Posts: 5,018
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  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    "i am also amazed at how strong some of our members are here. i cant visit a dealership unless i know i am buying a car. "

    - Why do you think I passed up a test drive on an STi??????!!!!!! ;-)
  • k9nolesk9noles Posts: 14
    Woo-hoo! Wife and I just took delivery of HER Atlantic Blue, taupe interior Legacy GT Limited sedan 5MT last night. (Yes, the lady had to get back to a 5 speed-been hearing about that for last 2 years!)

    One of the first of its kind to show up in the Boulder, CO area, we're told-Got some serious looks all the way home.

    Beautiful handling, great accel-let those RPMs climb a bit and boom! First time we saw it, we owned it! Usually wouldn't do that, but got it for 3% over invoice by ordering in April. Dealer says that price is just a dream now...MSRP all the way, and very few even coming in...

    Still reading manual, learning how to take care of our first turbo, etc. Will gladly share any impressions, if wanted.

    Our dealer, Flatirons Acura/Subie, in Boulder, said their Subie rep was in yesterday and "Had no knowledge" of any of the special offers I have seen reference to on this board. Hmmmm....What do you make of that? We're previous Subie owners, also here in Rocky Mtn. region...

    This board has been a big help-Helped me discern that our Legacy was not yet built when the side airbag thing came up. Thanks to all...off to hit the road. (sorry for long post, but yesterday ended 5 months of waiting!!!)

    Steve
  • mfhmfh Posts: 37
    the $500 above invoice deal at Stevens Creek through end of June. Sounds alright, except that "invoice" there seems higher than what Ive seen online.

    Just in case, you were ready to make the deal.
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Yeah, I heard about the Stevens Creek offer. However, I don't trust that dealership for a minute. I'd gladly pay more and go to a dealership that I trust.

    I just received a call from Santa Cruz Subaru. My Legacy GT Ltd Wagon (5EAT) is due in on July 12th! So I have a few weeks to make up my mind.

    Ken
  • mfhmfh Posts: 37
    Good for you. I'm having transaction-phobia, it stems from some deep-rooted problem in my bank account!

    Where are you going to take your car to be serviced?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Ken: you should have purchase *that* car, the one you drove. You should still consider doing that, IMO.

    Tell her congrats Steve. GT LTD sedan manual, boy that's a fun combo! Nice color too.

    -juice
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 683
    Since the W8 Passat wagon is discontinued I have been considering what will replace it in a year or so. Tried the Bean and found the new six to be very pleasant...adequate linear acceleration, smooth trans, low sound levels, BUT much rougher ride and poorer handling than my W8.

    Then drove the GT wagon which to my surprise rode better than the Bean even with the low profile tires. Handling was superb. However, I think hesitation followed by breakneck accel would be very hard to live with in Chicago's heavy, closely spaced traffic. Bottom line: If my W8 were stolen or totaled, the Bean (or preferably VDC) might be the only choice available. Too bad when Subaru was polling for opinion on engine choice for the GT most said they wanted the turbo.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    FWIW, Subaru is field testing an H6 with a 6 speed manual in a Spec B Legacy (in Germany).

    The turbos mate up nicely to the manual trannies.

    -juice
  • andmoonandmoon Posts: 320
    what is spec b, c, etc?
    Don
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