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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • bookemdanobookemdano Posts: 55
    It's a dead-giveaway that you like the car! (Ya gotta make the salesman think it's the great price he's giving you that sold the car!) :-)

    Regards,

    Dan.
  • legacy191legacy191 Posts: 29
    Went to the local Subie dealer in MPLS and looked at the 05' 2.5i sedan. Turbo won't arrive for about 2 weeks. To me the 05' seems tighter than the 99'GT we had a year ago. Since they didn't have a turbo,I didn't drive the car, but heres what I got out of it. If they decide to put NAV. in the car, watch out for increased attention from the state police just because of where it is installed. Since I didn't drive it and WE are also comparing it to a G35 with the Premium Pak. and body kit, for the tightness of the G35 I don't see the justification for the $6500 difference. But if this turbo doesn't drive as good as I think it should, I won't blink twice to buy the G35 over the Subie. But I have 2 weeks to wait till a turbo arrives at a Luther dealership in Minnesota..

    Tony T
  • legacy191legacy191 Posts: 29
    The legacy I looked at yesterday had Leather, sport shift, power driver seat, and 6cd in dash for about $26400. I'm hoping the turbo comes in at about $3000 more...

    Tony T
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    You dont have to hope, here is the pricing on the Legacy:

    :)

    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2005.html#price

    The model you saw was the 2.5i Limited, by the way.

    ~alpha
  • grove4grove4 Posts: 95
    I wanted to let you all know my thoughts on this awesome car.I got the silver gt with black leather.I cant see how anyone could spend for anything else for 27,500.Thats what I paid totally loaded and no ext warranty.I also have a forester xt so I was expecting same power.The legacy is a 5sp.This thing fricken rips,it has power everywhere in the rpm range,doesnt seem to matter what gear you are in.I just cannot believe it is a 4cyl.I just cannot believe that.The car handles evenly with a wrx and I drove them back to back.I also drove a BMW 330i sport package.The BMW will be looking at this cars tail lights, believe me.Also you get all weather capability and a very quiet ride.What more could you want?I will comment more when i get more seat time.
  • chassolchassol Posts: 95
    grove4 - Where are you in the US?

    My dealer hasn't even seen the invoices for any GT Limited let alone the vehicle.

    Thanks,

    Chassol
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,657
    Congrats on your new ride! Keep us posted, as I'm sure everyone here is dying to know what it's like to "live" with.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,657
    All the '05 models and specs are now on the SOA website. Some interesting specs here on turning circles for various Subies:

    05 Legacy GT, sedan & wagon = 35.4'

    05 WRX, sedan & wagon = 35.4'

    05 STi = 37.4'

    05 Forester XT = 34.8'

    I'm surprised that the long-wheelbase Legacy has the same turning circle as the short-wheelbase WRX. Even more surprising is that the F-XT gas the smallest turning circle.

    Bob
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    First of all, welcome to the Crew! You'll find a lot of knowledgable people here. Be sure to explore some of the other topics as well.

    On to your questions.

    I don't believe wood grain is available in the GT or GT Ltd. Although it was a pre-production vehicle, the GT Ltd. I sat in at Detroit was wood-free.

    Here in the SF Bay Area, dealers are not getting GTs until the end of June.

    It is interesting that those vehicles come up in the comparisons with the GT. I guess Edmund's bought into Subaru's new positioning of the Legacy. However, I do feel that other car publications will compare it with a few more affordable models.

    The G35 is a very nice vehicle. For me, the biggest downside is that there is no wagon version in the US. The Legacy GT gives me almost everything that the G35 does but at a much lower price point. I don't know what G35s go for, but I would not expect the GT to sell for at or over MSRP several months into it's intro.

    In fact, I just placed an order with my local dealer for a Legacy GT Ltd. wagon. Their pricing from the get-go was $1000 over invoice. At first, I was a little taken back since Subarus typically go for $200-500 over invoice around here. However, considering it is a new model and that $1K is just about 3% of the total vehicle cost, I felt it was fair.

    Ken
  • iluvsubaru2iluvsubaru2 Posts: 56
    For What's It's Worth,
    The Bean is among the best handling vehicles I've driven. The 17 inch wheels, the more even front and rear default torque of VTD, and improvements in OB suspension create impressive handling. If one added VDC superb fair weather handling should carry over into rain, snow and ice.

    One item needs fixing though, and that's Bean's nasty "turbo lag". Punch the accelerator from a dead stop such as entering a freeway or making a left turn and it takes too long before the Bean moves. It's unsafe. In the Sportshift mode (1st gear) lag is cut in half but still too long. For no turbo lag off the line, you might want to look at a real turbo, Forester XT.
             
    Stability Control and AWD: for those of you who think AWD alone is protection on ice, be careful because it's going to hurt. AWD is little better than FWD with excellent snow tires. From my own experience, tires make the most difference on ice, though not much difference. AWD on the non-VTD AWD that Subaru uses in all MT/AT Foresters and most OBs doesn't much help for icy roads. On snow or mud at VERY slow speeds AWD helps. But on icy streets and highways at traffic speeds AWD alone doesn't count for much.
     
    Breaking traction is the problem. 4X zero traction is no better than 2X zero traction. Subaru's version of yaw control (lateral stability) and traction control (forward motion) is VDC. It works very well. But not all traction/stability controls are created equal.

    The criteria of an effective Stability/Traction Control System are fast and accurate detection of imminent loss of vehicle's intended forward and/or lateral motion AND the effectiveness of corrective action (ie does the system save your bacon?).

    Lexus's first traction control systems, to cite one example, were OK on wet pavement but did not react fast enough for icy roads to prevent loss of traction and stability.

    What makes Subaru's OB VDC so good is VTD coupled with VDC. VTD moves torque around faster (VTD has more even front/rear torque split at it's default setting vs rest of Subarus AT AWDs) and VDC makes sure lateral and linear traction don't break, and if one tosses in 2005's superb suspension system, the OB VDC is about as good as it gets.

    Jake
    PS: I won't be buying a 2005 OB VDC. The sad fact is for drivers over six foot, the OB w/moonroof is uncomfortable. If one is over 6'2" it's unsafe as well. Outbound visibility is seriouly reduced by the mirror at or below driver's eye level. Worse, a tall driver's head is so close to the B-pillar and interior ceiling near the door that head injury is almost guaranteed in a side impact collision (ie the seat deployed SAB don't provide full head coverage for taller drivers and side curtains don't appear to offer protection from contact with pillars and roof, and likely don't provide enough deployment force to move the head out of harms way). For me collision avoidance and crash protection deficiencies are deal breakers. Are you listening Subaru?
  • grove4grove4 Posts: 95
    I live in lancaster Pa.I am pretty sure I am the only one around that has one so far.Actually the guy that ordered this car sold the one he had and needed transportation immediatly so he bought a s60r volvo.Just so happens this is the color and everything I was waiting for so I grabbed it.My dealer says the invoice is 27,000 and he took 500 so I paid 27500.You can expect to see it with a sticker of 29k or so.I am talking limited GT.What a wonderful car in all aspects.I am really suprised how upscale the interior is and how quiet the cabin is.That was one of the beefs I always had with subaru,but this car is totally different.Oh I wanted to say this car came off the truck to the dealer on 5/18.The regular 05 cars were there on 5/16.This thing is worth waiting for and if you are considering a sports sedan you got to drive it.On top of all that it goes in the snow.You cant beat it.
  • snowbirdsnowbird Posts: 120
    Ken: $1,000 over invoice is not that bad, considering this is a 2005 "Hot" model. Whereabout is your dealer located?
  • kmartinkmartin Posts: 427
    I can't get the page to load, either. Must really be a system error (a computer first!?)

    -KarenM-
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,657
    One item needs fixing though, and that's Bean's nasty "turbo lag". Punch the accelerator from a dead stop such as entering a freeway or making a left turn and it takes too long before the Bean moves. It's unsafe. In the Sportshift mode (1st gear) lag is cut in half but still too long. For no turbo lag off the line, you might want to look at a real turbo, Forester XT.

    Turbo lag? Not on the Bean, as it doesn't have a turbo. What you're talking about is a lack of low-end power. I agree, hence my earlier comment regarding my desire to see a 3.3 or 3.5 engine. As the H-6 is currently tuned, it's a mid to high-rpm engine. It's much better than before, but there is still a lack down low grunt.

    As to handling, I really can't comment on the Outback, as our drive in that model was limited to mainly straight roads. The Legacy GT, on the other hand I can comment on. It seemed mostly neutral driving through the infield at Las Vegas Speedway. If anything, there's a hint of oversteer, as I came close to applying some opposite lock on the steering to keep the rear end from swinging out. All-in-all, an excellent handling car. I can't wait to drive one under normal road conditions.

    Bob
  • heavybheavyb Posts: 5
    One item needs fixing though, and that's Bean's nasty "turbo lag".

    Turbo lag in an L.L. Bean Outback???

    The sad fact is for drivers over six foot, the OB w/moonroof is uncomfortable.

    Not sure where this is coming from. I'm 6'1" and I didn't notice any horrible visibility issues with the 2005 Outback ltd I sat in today.

    Cheers,
    HeavyB
  • iluvsubaru2iluvsubaru2 Posts: 56
    Bob,
    Obviously the the Bean ain't a turbo, hence "turbo lag". But the effect of executing a left turn (from a standstill at an intersection) was a delay long enough to cause real trouble if one misjudges either the speed of on-coming traffic and/or the coefficient of friction of the pavement you're standing on. It was far from responsive.

    As I said, sportshift cut that lag in half but for a 30K car I was surprised. As for the rest of the torque range, for other gears, it was fine, but not spectacular. My point was really aside from your observation of a 3.5 vs 3.0. This "lag" from a stop reminds of the earlier 2003 Foresters. After sometime, as I recall, SOA tweaked the computers and more or less fixed the problem. It's not a problem in the normally aspirated 'O4 Forester and the XT never has had turbo lag.

    Jake
  • iluvsubaru2iluvsubaru2 Posts: 56
    I hear ya HeavyB,
    If I was two inches shorter the Bean, VDC or any OB with a moonroof would be doable. But at a shade beyond 6'3" it's not. It may not seem like much but add two inches and mirror blocks my visual field, so I lose about 15 degrees of central. And then, as I said, there is that little matter of headroom.

    Look, I've no doubt SOA has it's reasons for insisting anyone who wants a Bean must take a moonroof with it. The Bean's about luxury. But I have no patience for SOA withholding VDC, after what, four years?, from every other vehicle they produced except an LL Bean.

    Jake
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,657
    Jake

    Part of the problem is 250 HP from a 3.0 is a lot, as most of that power is made higher up on the rev scale. Couple that to a ~ 3500 lb car, and something has to give. If Subaru offered 250 HP 3.5 engine, I'm sure there would be a much better response at low rpms.

    I know Honda offers ~ 240 HP on their 3.0 Accord, but I'm sure it's quite a bit lighter than the Outback.

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Posts: 3,613
    is only available on the VDC Outbacks. VTD is available on the WRX AT and the '04 Legacy GT. I think the Baja Turbo AT gets it too.

    -Brian
  • luck11luck11 Posts: 425
    This discussion has peaked my interest. I am just a hair over 6'4" and with my current 00 OB, I like to keep the seat at max height. I believe the moon roof will also be an issue for me considering that my head is rather close to the roof in my current OB.

    Another thing. I notice on current and past model years (00 -04), the Ltds and Bean's had a blue sunshield at the top of the windshield. If my current vehicle had this band, and if I drove in my desired seating position, I would be looking through the blue band. Do all the 05 OB or GT wagons also have this sunshield?
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