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Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

18283858788356

Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Wish I could, that's not even a pipe dream right now since we're house poor for a while. We should recover in a year or two, though.

    Honestly if one of my cars blew up right now I think I'd be stuck with just one car for a while, at least.

    -juice
  • cbellcbell Posts: 11
    If you extrapolate from the current tuning options for the Forester XT, the most notable thing is the (wait for it) "area under the curve". In this comparison, peak torque moved down about 1,000 RPM. All of that extra low-down grunt is what you'll really notice in daily driving, especially with the 5EAT. -cheers, cbell
  • nygregnygreg Posts: 1,936
    stated that Subaru redesigned the brake booster to reduce play and increase firmness.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, peak torque is at 3600rpm, that's pretty early. Actually a lot earlier than it is for the non-turbo.

    We'll have to start talking about non-turbo lag. LOL

    -juice
  • jim1969jim1969 Posts: 62
    Could anyone tell me what the invoice is on this car? I live in Long Island,NY. I have an idea from this site and cars101.com but they have different costs. My dealer wants $500+invoice. I want to be sure of what invoice is. Thanks.
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Try Edmund's New Car Prices. Just scroll to the top of the screen and click on the appropriate tab.

    You'll also get TMV pricing which will give you an idea of what folks are actually paying in your area.

    Wow, I'm starting to sound like a Town Hall Host!

    Ken
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Posts: 1,760
    have a street full of subarus in front of the condo???
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The funny thing is our daughter is booked in so many camps this summer that we've only gone there a couple of times!

    -juice
  • rsq798rsq798 Posts: 35
    I've noticed the same stutter. I thought maybe it was a problem with my particular car but I see others are feeling it also so maybe I won't worry about it as much for now. If anybody figures this out, I too would love to know the reason behind it also.
  • rsq798rsq798 Posts: 35
    Anybody else buy a GT Ltd in New England? My dealer offered $400 "over invoice," which turned out to be another ~$400 over "true invoice." When questioned, they said that Subaru of New England charged its dealers a little more, including at least a couple hundred dollar fee. That reminded me of the $275 advertising fee that was mentioned in http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2005.html#price, and I still got it for $27.5 after dest. charge so I wasn't really complaining.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    SoNE does have different pricing vs. SoA for the rest of the country. A strange little monopoly they have for distribution in the NE.

    -juice
  • rsq798rsq798 Posts: 35
    Another thing, I had told the dealer that I had just joined IMBA a couple months ago (which was true) and that I was just as willing to wait another 4 months to get the car at invoice than pay too much right now (which was also true). Later on, the dealer said that their "invoice" of ~$400 over true invoice ($26,763 for manual GT Ltd) was in fact the VIP program price.

    Another tidbit as I saw this question asked earlier, the dealer said that normally they get another $300 back from Subaru for selling a car on the VIP program. So they were making about as much on me as if I had gone through the VIP program.
  • rsq798rsq798 Posts: 35
    That's good to know. In that case, one would think that KBB, NADA, Edmunds, etc., would be able to tell you the localized invoice given that we input our area codes?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Now that is true, VIP cars do end up with a small credit to the dealer from Subaru. I hadn't heard the amount until now, though.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    The reason we are getting the 5EAT is two fold, one because my wife has this problem of wearing three inch heels to work every day and to she doesn't want to learn how to drive one.

    Is she a dancer? Hee Hee ;)

    -mike
  • rsorganizersorganize Posts: 131
    Got my 3.0R OB Ltd. Wagon (VDC) for $300 over the invoices I saw on Edmunds and other places. (Fair trade-in value, too.) Stacy Subaru in Brattleboro Vt.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Posts: 381
    And this is just with their stage 1 power package (an ECU reflash to you and me)!

    image

    Here's a link to their info about this package:

    http://cobbtuning.com/forester/power-s.html#stage1

    I think their Legacy GT reflash and exhaust should easily get you upwards of 300 hp maybe more (their claiming 280 for the Forester XT Stage 2 package).

    BTW, I just got my oil changed at 1177 miles. The service advisor looked at me a bit funny and tried to explain that having the oil changed after the first 1000 miles was out dated advice and that new cars don't need this done. Maybe he's right, but I feel it's better to be safe than sorry. Besides, I won't have to pay for any more oil changes as they offer a program of free oil changes for life with a new car purchase. ;-)

    Cheers!
    -Ian
  • kenskens Posts: 5,869
    Ian,

    It is better safe than sorry. I will probably be changing the oil at 1000 miles myself.

    Ken
  • ntk1ntk1 Posts: 57
    Ian
    I thought I read somewhere that overly frequent oil changes on a new engine could slow down the bedding in process ? I think that practice stopped when new engines shedded metal fragments into the oil.
    I am interested to hear you appear to have the same stutter/hesitation problem as me, I intend to wait until the 1000 miles run in period has passed and then take a visit to the dealer - has anyone else noticed this ? Patti any news/advice

    Pete
  • jchagtdijchagtdi Posts: 55
    There is the true invoice, which is what the dealer pays for the car, but dealers must also pay a compulsory advertising fee. Carsdirect.com's "invoice price" is actually invoice + ad fee.

    In case anyone in New England was wondering, Subaru of New England is owned by the Boch "Automile" family. In 1999, Boch's Subaru distribution firm was sued by several Subaru dealers, claiming the cars it provided were padded with unwanted options to boost profits at their expense. The company and Boch disputed the allegations. The suit, filed at U.S. District Court in Concord, N.H., has yet to go to trial.
  • snowbirdsnowbird Posts: 120
    kmartin. Thanks for the post and reassurances.
  • rsq798rsq798 Posts: 35
    Thanks for the pointer to carsdirect.com. Never heard of it before. So looking at the page for the Legacy GT Ltd, it seems that I was not charged the $100 advertising fee but the $20 dest. surcharge and the $370 NE Subaru Distributor Invoice Charge, which brings me to about what was quoted to me as dealer cost. Strangely enough (for getting overcharged by SoNE), that makes me feel a whole lot better.
  • k9nolesk9noles Posts: 14
    Hello-Been pushing our GT Limited Sedan 5MT around a little-about 500 miles so far, but I haven't noticed the problem you referenced. Was it betweeen 1-2 or 2-3? I'll pay closer attention, in case we're picking up on a model-wide bug here...Thanks...

    Steve in Denver
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    I've found that carpoint.com has the most accurite invoice pricing (as per my buddy who is a car salesman)

    -mike
  • ntk1ntk1 Posts: 57
    Hi Steve - The problem is most noticeable in 2nd and 3rd, it is more pronounced with moderate throttle ie mild/medium acceleration, it is also more evident at cold/mildly warm engine temperatures. Another manifestitation can be seen if I hold 3rd gear at lowish constant speed (say 30 mph) then the car seems to be quite jerky (similar to an old fashioned intermittant mis-fire)
    A little odd but there are at least 3 readers here with similar problems
    Pete
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    The 02-03 WRX has similar behavior (browse over on NASIOC). It was real apparent to me when my 03 was new, but I hardly notice it now. Two things that helped smooth out the engine were installation of a grounding kit and the Prodrive exhaust. Can't say which one had the most impact, though I suspect the grounding kit had a small effect.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Posts: 4,487
    Geez, I'm off on a 2 day business trip and you guys leave 81 posts to catch up on! We picked up a new silver TSX for my wife tonight. I was trying to steer her into a Legacy GT Ltd, but she was really in love with the TSX and I can't complain much -- it's a very slick car. We got it for $25K ($2K under MSRP and about $400 over invoice) which seems like a bargain to me considering the high equipment content. After driving the TSX and looking it over carefully, I have noticed all sorts of little convenience and luxury features. Acura did a really nice job with the car, and the size and feel is just what my wife was looking for. So I'm happy that she's happy.

    The car is actually equipped a little better than a loaded Legacy GT Ltd, and that really astounds me for the price difference. And there are some features on the TSX you just can't get on the GT (HIDs, folding rear seat, stability control). I was thinking it was about a $2K difference between the GT and the TSX, but it's more like $4-5K when you take everything into account. For someone like my wife, who will benefit from stability control but not miss AWD, that $4-5K is a big factor (she also won't miss the extra 50HP from the GT).

    The good news is that I put down the sizeable deposit on the TSX using my Subaru MasterCard, so it will earn points for my eventual OB XT or Leg GT wagon purchase!!

    One other interesting note: this TSX is the first car I have driven with HID headlights. I was shocked by how sharp the cutoff pattern is -- there's actually a visible horizontal line out in the distance in the front/side views where the beam ends. That will take some getting used to. Otherwise, the HIDs do a great job.

    Craig
  • paisanpaisan Posts: 21,181
    My guess is that the price difference in 2-3 months won't be so great...

    Stability control v. AWD AWD is better IMHO v. the best 2wd stability control.

    -mike
  • k9nolesk9noles Posts: 14
    Pete-Ok, just came in from driving the GT, both highway and neighborhood cruising (beautiful night here in CO) and I think I know the time frame (in terms of shifting) that you're referring to. For the 2nd to 3rd thing, I have felt, maybe once or twice, a slight hesitation, but I've never owned a turbo, so I chalked it up to not having RPMs in the correct peak torque area for the gear. As for the 3rd gear jerky thing, the only way I could simulate that was to intentionally hammer the gas and then let up, repeatedly. Up to about 600 miles on the car now...

    Don't know if that helps any or not, but I'll continue to pay extra close attention to the car's acceleration and shifting behavior...I'll continue to watch the board here, too-Great resource!

    Steve
  • k9nolesk9noles Posts: 14
    Pete-Ok, just came in from driving the GT, both highway and neighborhood cruising (beautiful night here in CO) and I think I know the time frame (in terms of shifting) that you're referring to. For the 2nd to 3rd thing, I have felt, maybe once or twice, a slight hesitation, but I've never owned a turbo, so I chalked it up to not having RPMs in the correct peak torque area for the gear. As for the 3rd gear jerky thing, the only way I could simulate that was to intentionally hammer the gas and then let up, repeatedly. Up to about 600 miles on the car now...

    Don't know if that helps any or not, but I'll continue to pay extra close attention to the car's acceleration and shifting behavior...I'll continue to watch the board here, too-Great resource!

    Steve
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