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Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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  • to Lexus' future, I'm sure they have an intelligent gameplan for it's market position and strategy.

     

      It is my understanding that the 530i will be replaced by a 535i with aprox. 275HP.

     

      I wonder how often makers look into the crystal balls of their competition?

     

      I would go with three engines like Audi and BMW have , 245HP, 285, 340-350HP.

     

      Pricing is key. One thing Lexus does want to do is make the V8 model more popular, as 90% of the GS sales are V6 (inline).

     

      They should go back to what worked for them with the LS and "buy" market share, and severely underprice the car, and force people to buy it on value, then make the money back later with repeat business and higher prices down the road.

     

      I would go $37,900 to start, and under $45k for the V8, loaded no more than $51k or so, similar to 1998 pricing.

     

      A 525i is $42k, stripped! A E320 is what, $48k?

     

      Lexus is making BANK on their other models. Bite the bullet with this one. The ES has plenty of happy customers in the pipeline. The IS pricing is pretty much static. The RX is a freight train of profit, so they can make it work at a discount. Squeeze the dealers a little bit on their margins.

     

       

      Lexus needs BODIES in this range! If as nothing else, to hold buyers away from the comp. The ES and LS will give them profits, with people either going for a high margin, loaded ES, or a LS, which at over 30k units sold last year, has become THE hottest luxury large car around. No invoice deals there.

     

       

      DrFill
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Even at $51K loaded, they will still face fierce competition from arch nemesis Infiniti, as that seems to be their game plan as well. What both cars will do is reveal the RL for what it is, a bloated, overpriced TL. I dont see the RL selling at or above sticker for too much longer.
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Posts: 326
    The GS isn't being shown at Detroit? Is that right? What gives? Why not?
  • mg808mg808 Posts: 22
    Totally agree with callmedrfill.

     

    Lexus needs to understand that they sold like 50 GS300's in 2004. MSRP of $51,000 for a loaded GS300AWD is too much, they will need to discount the car. Infiniti will definitely discount, due to the M's previous lackluster sales. Its a great time to buy a luxo AWD car. This debut is their only shot at denting MB & BMW. And look out for Infiniti. My backup plan...stroll into the Acura dealer in May/June and get a Acura RL at invoice.....
  • mg808mg808 Posts: 22
    Totally agree with callmedrfill.

     

    Lexus needs to understand that they sold like 50 GS300's in 2004. MSRP of $51,000 for a GS300 is too much, they will need to discount the car. Infiniti will definitely discount, due to the M's previous lackluster sales. Its a great time to buy a luxo AWD car. This debut is their only shot at denting MB & BMW. And look out for Infiniti. My backup plan...stroll into the Acura dealer in May/June and get a Acura RL at invoice.....
  • danldanl Posts: 6
    My area lexus dealer said pricing is still up in the air. His own guess is pricing will be very close to the 05 model with an upcharge for the awd of perhaps 2k or so. Does anyone else have better info to share, I,d sure like to know.
  • Went to the Los Angeles Auto Show today. Saw the new GS430 coming out in March of this year. Boy, was it slick!!!

     

    Expertise needed: Want to buy the new GS300 (same body style as the one I saw today). I am not sure where you are getting the 50K price tag. I thought the GS430 V8 was that price. Of course, they would not give any indication of the sticker price at the Auto Show. They are however, taking pre-orders at certain dealerships. Do you think the new V6 has decent power for the $$? Please explain what you are talking about regarding the August 2005 release? Is this yet another version of the GS300?

     

    As I am ready to place an order, any valuable input would be very appreciated as this is a big purchase for my family to make.

     

    Kind Regards,

    Shasta1
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    All of the new GS' info has been released on the canadian Lexus website. www.lexus.ca

     

    The 3.0L V6 is the same one in the Crown Athelete, the 3GR-FSE.
  • sortersorter Posts: 146
    It is priced just under the GX according to the web site you mentioned. AWD and RWD is about 2400 CAD difference. the 2004 GS 300 cost 61700 and GS430 was like 69500. Quite a jump on pricing. Why?

     

    If that is the new pricing plan for Lexus, I expect same for IS and next ES.
  • Many of us have been dickering about the 2006 GS 300 being the 350 (3.5L engine) released this March in the USA. It seems that the Japanese model will be the 3.5L released in August but that we might have to wait another year or so and just get the new 3.0L engine this March.

     

    You might go back a couple of weeks in the messages here to get the flavor. The 2006 GS300 pre-brochure lists the 0-60mph time to be 6.8s.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    as 00boxsters said, I would expect roughly 7 seconds or so. Basically competitive with Germany, but it will lose to an M35. It doesnt seem like it will be badly underpowered like the old GS300.
  • So, after reading some of the posts of this group and doing more research over the Internet... Want the opinion of those with expertise (I don't know much about cars and want the most value and dependability for my money - we have a 15 month old..): Please help:

     

    If I can get the GS300 for $40,000 USD or the new Infiniti M35 for about that price, which would you recommend and why? Thank you very much - Heather
  • Tell me "it ain't so"!!! Did the pricing conversion via info on the Lexus Canadian Website you recommended. Fully loaded $67,100.00 CAD = $55K USD?????
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    YOu can't take a straight exchange rate conversion and extrapolate GS prices from that. Lexus in Canada is more expensive for some reason.

     

    2006 Canadian prices went up by about 5% from the 2005 models. I expect the same in the US.

     

    As for M35 vs. GS300, gotta wait for them to come out to make any sort of recommendation.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    So far at least, the Infiniti M seems like it will be the sportier of the two cars. It's also got more power and a more advanced AWD system. The GS's interior is a little simpler and more streamlined, arguably more elegant. It looks very classy in parchment, but the dark colored wood doesnt seem to suit the black leather option very well. At least with the M35, you dont have to worry about its V6 being replaced in as little as a single model year. As jrock has said, I'd wait for some road tests (and of course drive both cars yourself) before making a decision.
  • It is a shame that the closer we get to the introduction of the new GS, the less enthusiastic I become. I appreciate the usual anticipation aspects but the more I learn about the GS (particularly the 300) the less excited I am. Perhaps that it is unlikely to be introduced as a 3.5L while the RL, M, E and others will be (are) or perhaps that it may be 'quickly' made obsolete by an '07 GS350 is the greater let down.

     

    I wonder if Lexus, now less than six weeks til official availability, is not 'holding back' an actual test report out of the media because they fear comparison and tester critique that could blunt their grand intro.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Its funny, the whole process of some of the world gets GS350 for '06 and we get GS300 for '06 still makes zero sense to me.
  • Just wait and purchase the GS350, let the sales of the 06 GS300 hit rock bottom. The current leftover GS's are selling at or below invoice because consumers know a new car is coming out. Why would anyone with half a brain buy the all new GS when you could wait 12 months or so and get a more powerful engine? What happens to the resale value of the GS300(245hp) when the more powerful engine is introduced. There is absolutely no incentive to buy this car with the 245hp engine, it is underpowered and will depreciate too fast when the GS350 comes online. In my opinion wait, let the suckers purchase the car that most dealerships won't be able to sell at invoice. Look at the 04 & 05 GS absolutely pathetic!!!!!!!!!
  • I am surprised by (but appreciate) the agreement so far about my being disappointed with the 2006 GS300 introduction. It seems clear that I am not alone.

     

    I was somewhat hoping for an argument to bolster the new GS. I expect someone to come along and trash my 'regretable' post soon enough...
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I think the majority of even the Lexus faithful such as myself just dont get this senseless move Lexus is making with GS300. A $33-35K Toyota Avalon has 280hp and 260ft.lbs of torque. A $45K+ Lexus GS300 has... 245hp? What? If only I knew Danny Clements personally, I would ask him what the heck Lexus USA is thinking. If they dont want the GS350 to be too close to GS430, hold off on releasing the V8 GS until the new V8 is released. That way there are no unhappy customers with GS300s thinking they got screwed. V8 sales of these cars are always meager anyway, so why intentionally hurt GS V6 sales, which Lexus desperately needs, to protect a few thousand GS430s?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    You are not alone in this feeling. It is preposterous that Lexus will treat the NA market with such disdain with a 3L motor, while releasing a higher output/displacement 3.5L in Japan !!! I am pissed big time... I think it is a potentially HUGE mistake, especially having Toyota release a 3.5L engine in the lower-grade Avalon (relative to the GS).

     

    I hope that when it comes to the LS, Lexus better get it right. No screw-ups permitted.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Has anyone emailed Toyota asking what's up with this?

     

    A couple possible reasons I could think of:

     

    1) There is a shortage of the new 3.5L V6, at least for a year.

     

    2) They already have some 3.0 V6 made, and it makes the most sense to put it in the U.S. GS300. Japan is launching the Lexus name for the first time, and they want to put out the best (GS350) in Japan. The U.S. Avalon, being a larger car, was developed from the get-go with only the 3.5L in mind.

     

    3) Combination of the above.
  • Toyota's recent 4th out of four rating in an accurate recent popular mag. test with the Avalon behind the Chrysler 300, Ford 500, and Buick make me understand their need for a substantial redesign upgrade. The Avalon is likely to meet and prob. exceed these three which placed higher in 2004.

     

    With the Acura RL and shortly introduced Infiniti M, Merc E350 and the upgraded BMW 5 series, how does Lexus expect to meet let alone exceed the competition in this bread and butter class?

     

    Let me beat a dead horse and again mention the deathblow, chop us off at the knees, hit a man while he is down (and any other pathetic cliche) Lexus GS350 release in a year or two.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    It still makes no sense to me. I know the 3.5L is a chopped and tweaked version of 4Runner's 4.0L V6. Is it possible that Toyota feels the Avalon version isnt Lexus refined enough? (Similar to how Caddy XLR uses a more refined DOHC but significantly less powerful V8 than its Corvette cousin). Perhaps they want more time with it to banish any remaining "trucky traits?"
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Posts: 1,289
    I think you're blowing the resale value thing out of proportion. Okay, so they bring out a 3.5L V6 for the '07 model year. The new 5-series is getting a much more powerful inline-6 also. Will it affect resale values of the 5-series with the older engine? probably not. Cars go thru mid-life updates all the time with engines & horsepower. Resale value usually does not drop much if at all.
  • Since I would have leased the new GS, the (drop in) resale value would not mean so much. I also understand your point about mid-life updates (the 5-series is said to be upgraded to 255hp) but after 7 or 8 years with only modest updates why would lexus do a total remake GS model only to replace the heart of the car so shortly after its grand intro?
  • mg808mg808 Posts: 22
    I like the new GS300, but the GS350 bothers me like everybody else on the forum. What can you do. Its a corporate decision.

     

    GS sales in '04 and '05 were awful. They need the GS350 engine to compete. Everybody else has the same gadgets as the GS300, except they have bigger engines. I'm also sure the base price will be $3K more than a M35.

     

    The winner will most likely be Infiniti. They will reasonably price the M35 and possibly offer some discounts. Infiniti is building prestige through sales while Lexus believes you should buy a GS because its a Lexus. That mentality is only reserved for the leaders, BMW & Mercedes, and they are having trouble selling $60K E320's & 530i's.

     

    Lets hope the GS300 is priced accordingly.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Infiniti M class pricing is available at nissannews.com. Its not that low, its reasonable though. M45 can hit $60K. I think its premature to state that the base price of the GS will be 3 grand more than the M. Let's just wait and see.

     

    Also, I feel that people forget that BMWs entry 5 series is powered by a 184 horse 2.5L. 245 hp is significantly more than that, and the Lexus 3.0L has more torque as well, so if the pricing is similar to to the 2.5L 5 series, I dont see the big issue. Last I read, the base 5 series has "leatherette" (read: vinyl) standard even, so one would likely need to get a few options on the 5 as well, to bring it up to the basics provided on the Infiniti M and Lexus GS.

     

    I think this is just an interim strategy for Lexus regarding the engines. And who's to say that the 3.0L is going to be replaced by the 3.5L? Couldnt Lexus run a GS300, a GS350, and a GS4xx once the new V8 is introduced?

     

    Just my .02

     

    ~alpha
  • sortersorter Posts: 146
    With the way Toyota is going to priced this GS, it is a Suicide for sales volumn. How can the dealer put a V6 GS AWD side by side with a V8 GX for about the same price?
  • The First Ting: Alpha is right (for once)!

     

      Lexus WILL have 3 engines in the GS. Why? 'Cus A6 had 3, the 5-series has 3, and the E-Class has 3. How would a 245HP GS300, 280HP GS350, and 310HP GS30 stack up against BMW's engine lineup (218, 258, 333)? I'd say pretty good.

     

      Mind you buyers in this class aren't here for power first! People get the E-Class because the S-Class is too expensive, and the C-Class is cheap and cheezy. People get the 5-series because the 745 pissed everyone off, and everybody else bought a 3-series!

     

      Lexus needs to make a Lexus LS, but with bolder styling, a fun suspension, hipper interior, and a sweet price. Make a younger, hipper LS, with big rims, sharp handling, and a glitzy interior. Make it fun! Then make the IS (in your offices, over the past 3 years), a smaller offshoot of that image.

     

      Then Lexus can trump them all with a 4th engine (GS450h)!

     

      The 2nd Ting: Is I only know one Ting!

     

      LOL!

     

      

      DrFill
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