Volkswagen Jetta 2006+

ivan_99

And…

When comparing the Jetta GLI 2.0T to comparable cars such as the TSX…

The TSX weighs at 3318lbs, makes 200hp, but ONLY 166 ft/lb at 4500!!
The 2.0T makes 200hp and 207 ft/lb UNDER 2000rpm.

TSX is rated at 22/31 mpg and I believe the stats I’ve seen on the 2.0T will be better for both city and highway.

Their wheel bases and other dimensions are within inches of each other.

The GLI will have at lease one “winner” for me…DSG.

This is not to say the weight increase was a “good” thing, but other manufacturers seem to be able to produce 3300lb autos and still achieve acclaims for their products.

Ohh..price. TSX has an Edmunds TMV of $27,328.

nippononly

ivan: the 2.0T is going to get a BETTER rating than 22/31, which is the rating on the non-turbo 2.5? I will be very interested to see that, and I am not saying it couldn't happen. Turbos aregreat for low-end torque, the only thing is you have to wait for the turbo to spool up. In the old 1.8, that was a long wait. VW claims the new 2.0 is much better in that regard.

aveman: according to the brochure as well as the salesman, alloys are not available as an option on the Jetta Value Edition (VE). In fact, the salesman really doesn't want to talk about VEs at all, as if VW is a little too snooty to talk about the base car. They don't have any in stock at my dealer yet.

micweb: "To get ABS and side curtain airbags on CamCords, you have to buy a more heavily equipped car, or else its the only one on the lot and its hard to make a good deal...."

Side airbags and curtains and ABS are standard on the Accord DX, sticker of $15,800. My dealer currently has about a dozen of this model in stock, and he is not even a high-volume dealer. They do cost more on the Camry, because you have to buy an LE for $19K sticker (ABS included) and add the curtains for $650. Which is still cheaper than all Jettas but the VE. The weight comment I made early is in direct proportion to the size of the car. I personally feel that smaller cars should be more sporty than larger ones, this may not be a view shared by all. Certainly among non-premium cars its size, the new Jetta is quite heavy. Once we get into S40s, TSXs, 3-series, and other entry-lux models, that comment no longer applies of course.

mazda6: yes, the new Jetta "outclasses" the Corolla quite handily, I think (this will mean different things to different people). What I question is the very heavy price premium you are asked to pay for that extra "class", not to mention reduction in performance and fuel efficiency.

jeffyscott: I had the same opinion on the seat materials, although I liked the "T-tech" on the S40 more than you did. The back seat is certainly no better than tight in the S40. It felt a bit more limber in driving than the Jetta does, and is certainly fairly lively with the manual shift - I will have to try the Jetta manual shift when it finally comes out. I have to say I did not consider the trunk space or access a top priority, but the Jetta will have better equipment levels than the Volvo at the same price. Not to mention, the VW stock stereo is pretty great, whereas the Volvo's.....isn't, to put it mildly.

jeffyscott

aveman - You can go to vw.com and try their build a car thing. VE has only two options ATX and ESP. While it is a bit of a hassle we will look to get alloys, just for the appearance factor. I was not aware of an issue you raised "With antilock systems being sensitive to wheel weight and maybe diameter...".

If we get lucky maybe there will be someone buying one with alloys, who wants to upgrade to 17 or 18 inch wheels...well we can hope :-).

Why wouldn't one be able to buy the alloys as a part from VW dealer? This still leaves a problem, the VE has 15 inch wheels, while the alloys are 16 inch...so you would have to change the tires to do this.

nippononly - My wife will still need to buy groceries so she did not like the trunk, and other stuff. We would also plan to use this car for a trip from time to time, now that kids are starting to leave the nest :-). And we actually never even turned on the radio in either car (the VE radio is different from the one we drove anyway).

robr2

Most likely the dealer will have a 15" alloy package avaiable and the 16" should fit as well.

alpha01

Hoping to test drive the new Jetta next week!

Question: Has anyone else been a victim of VWs insanely annoying postcard mailing advertising campaign? So far, VW has been kind enough to teach me how to mow my lawn, and cook an egg, for example. STOP SENDING ME THIS CRAP. Easily the most confusing, unimpressive auto campaign since the Infiniti/Nature ads of the late 80s. (And that one was a huge success!).

~alpha

robr2

Almost everyday I've been treated to a little postcard:

Mow the lawn
Boil an egg
Fold fitted sheets
yada yada yada

It'a all part of their "The Jetta is All Grown Up Just Like You Campaign". I guess they're trying to show that even if you are all grown up you can still have a little fun.

I went to the Jetta Road Show last week and they gave me a DVD with a little short on starring Joe Patolana (sic) - Ralphie of the Soprano's. It touted the same idea.

Which leads me to this. I read an article today that VW decided to move the Jetta up in size, price, and positioning because current Jetta owners weren't buying more Jettas as they got older. So they decided to keep them in the fold by up everythinging the Jetta. Did anybody at VW ever thing that perhaps they could've sold Passats to those folks and left the Jetta as an smaller, younger targeted vehicle?

Where does that leave younger buyers (the coveted demographic) who want a VW? The Golf? It may be a nice vehicle but it's still a hatch - and hatches aren't big sellers in America. Further look at it this way: Hmm I bought a Jetta after college because I could afford it and it fit my lifestyle. I'm a little older now and I aspire to more. Let's see, VW offers me another Jetta - Um I was hoping for maybe a new model.

avenger1

I was hoping that I could move up to a Passat now that I am settled and have two kids (need a bigger car).

Now VW is punishing it's bread and butter audience because it has luxury aspirations. "You can always buy another Jetta" will be the common quote told to buyers who will be shocked by the new passat and it's upgraded price.

Kind of like..."well, we've decided to increase the price of milk. But don't worry, your baby can still drink water...or you can go to the generic brand of milk from overseas..." Thanks VW!

The only good news is that Saturn will be importing Opels next year to revitalize their lineup...now only if they will bring over their diesel engine options as well.

jeffyscott

I've been getting the impression that the new crops of young people like hatches. Seems weird to me and maybe I am mistaken on that...any youngsters here that can confirm or deny this?

alpha01

(though that may be different than being young), and right now, I do not in any way want a hatch, at least not one that looks like a Golf or Civic Si or even Matrix.

I like edges, and the TSX's, Legacy GT's, suiting me quite well, for example.

~alpha

mark75

I'm considering leasing a new Jetta for either 36 or 48 months. I'm hoping some people can give me a lease range that I might be able to expect on this car from everyones personal experience. Please let me know...thanks

ivan_99

The only mileage I've seen for the 2.0T has been for the Euro test. So they're not comparable to the EPA's...although their "super highway..thingy" was just over 40mpg.

I was told high compression engines (running at lower rpms) can give better mpg than lower compression engines.

Not to say EPA is accurate either.

venus537

the 2.0T is going to get a BETTER rating than 22/31, which is the rating on the non-turbo 2.5?

well, yes. the audi A4 2.0T with the CVT has 24/32 EPA ratings. by the way, audi claims 7.3 seconds from 0-60 for that configuration. the jetta 2.0T with the DSG should be just as good. why is this so surprising since the much more powerful 1.8t had better mileage then the base 2.0 from the old jetta?

i know every one is entitled to their opinions, but lets have them within reason. the corolla is the sports car compared to the the jetta? really!

i don't know why some people have a problem with a $27k sticker jetta? you can't find another car with the same build quality, workmanship, classy interior, creature (and there are a lot of them!) and safety features, and driving dynamics at this price.

well, i guess i do have one problem. the 2.5l isn't up to snuff for a $27k car. not so much with the power but with the smoothness and sound quality. my advice to WV would be to have the 2.0t standard for jettas with the package 2 option and available for jettas with the package 1 option (my choice).

alpha01

"i don't know why some people have a problem with a $27k sticker jetta? you can't find another car with the same build quality, workmanship, classy interior, creature (and there are a lot of them!) and safety features, and driving dynamics at this price."

Aside from creature features, I dont see how the Jetta Pkg 2 is any better than the more efficient, more powerful Acura TSX. I'd venture that the TSX is more reliable as well.

~alpha

merc1

I think the key ingredient that the Jetta is missing is more power from what should be a gem of an engine considering its roots. Why not 170-180hp and then have the 2.0T model at 225hp. VW needs to start tuning engines differently from Audi. This dropping the same engine in both brand's cars across the board needs to stop. The Passat is to get a unique engine, seperate in tune/size from any Audi V6, so why not give the I5 in the Jetta more hp if the targets are the Altima and other similarly sized more powerful cars.

M

auburn94

My wife has always been a fan of the Jetta. As luck would have it we will be in the market for a new car for her later this year. She loves the new look, as do I and is not as particular about the handleing and performance as I would be. I am concerned with price. In doing some "pre-shopping" on the net a local dealer has several listed at ~24600. This is with auto and leatherette. They have 2 with leather and those are running ~26k. Of course this is just sticker, but I have a hard time paying that much money for a car this size, even though it is bigger than the previous version. I'm not sure if I am willing to pay that premium for the cache of a VW vs. a more practical purchase of an Accord, Camry, Altima et al. Interesting marketing strategy VW has taken. They have priced the Jetta somewhere between Corolla territory and Camry size. Worked for Dodge on the Dakota truck, let see what happens...

jeffyscott

Price range (MSRP) will be from about $18,500 to $27,500 depending on trim level and option packages you want.

I think that is pretty similar to the price range of the other cars you mentioned.

nippononly

"They have priced the Jetta somewhere between Corolla territory and Camry size"

They have? There is no Corolla this expensive. The Jetta is solidly in Camry territory. In fact the bulk of Camry sales happen in the $19-22K range, so Jetta may have actually crept to the top of Camry territory. Next up is the Avalon, a car with 50% more power and passenger/cargo space than the Jetta 2.0T for the same price. And even at that price, Avalon is not outcontented by the Jetta.

I am totally with merc in thinking VW and Audi ought to have unique engines. VW ought to be making the turbo engine standard in any car above the regular 2.5 at $21K. Start to add those packages and the price rises quickly - the engine should rise along with it.

venus: "i don't know why some people have a problem with a $27k sticker jetta? you can't find another car with the same build quality, workmanship, classy interior, creature (and there are a lot of them!) and safety features, and driving dynamics at this price."

I can't find just one, I can find about 20, and I listed many of them in an earlier post. The TSX is a good example, as is the Audi A4, the Volvo S40, the Saab 9-3, the Mercedes C230, the BMW 325i, heck VW's own Passat 1.8T (and the 2.0T when it arrives later this year), the MazdaSpeed Mazda6s and Subaru Legacy GT (both turbos with at least 250 hp, BTW), should I continue?

As for mileage ratings, you will note that I said earlier that I wasn't declaring it impossible that the turbo could outrank the NA 2.5 for fuel economy, and after what you have said I will be waiting with curiosity for the EPA ratings when the new engine is available later on.

auburn94

Ok, so Edmunds lists the top end of the Corolla price as 17500. The point is it is an individual choice as to whether or not the styling, features, build quality etc of a VW is worth the premium price for a smaller car. It has grown closer to Camry size, but is still a smaler car. I think they are aiming to be the poor man's BMW.

mark75

Does anybody have invoice information for the new jettas? I noticed that it hasn't yet been updated on Edmunds.com. I usually thought they were on the ball about this kind of thing.

Please let me know.

Thanks,

Mark

nippononly

of folks that think the Jetta is near Camry size to please go sit in a Camry. Then sit in a Corolla. Then go over to VW and sit in the Jetta. Make sure in all three cases to sit in the front and the back - be sure to make the comparison totally apples to apples.

I know the Jetta has grown from the last one, but the space for passengers hasn't grown that much. It may be slightly bigger than a Corolla, but it doesn't feel that way. The driver's legs are more cramped for one thing. Your knee space in the back seat is no better than the Corolla. And the Camry is a WAY bigger car.

Now is the Jetta a "premium" car compared to the Corolla? Oh yes, it is nicer alright. And the equipment level is way higher, excluding the Jetta VE. But the 2.5 starts at $21K with steel wheels and no moonroof, and the Corolla S goes for $15K WITH alloys and a moonroof. That is 40% more money. I remain unconvinced that it is 40% more car.

auburn94

Well put, nippononly. I think we are trying to make the same point. The Jetta is a great looking car, but if I'm going to plunk down 24k of my dollars, I want to be able to haul more than 5 year olds in the back.

But, back to my original post, the Jetta would be for my wife and as you may know, if momma ain't happy.....

jeffyscott

Thae back seat in the Jetta is certainly adequate, IMO. When I adjusted the front for myself, I could seat reasonably comfortably in the rear. I am 5'11" with fairly long legs...34" inseam.

I have sat in larger cars that were not as comfortable in back as this one. It is, of course, not a Ford 500 or anything like that.

The rear seat is high enough for an adult to sit on, not like some cars that have a very low back seat. In addition my feet were able to easily go under the front seat.

I think the height adjustable front seats also help...if you go up a little you do not have to go back as far. We tend be more comfortable with the seats up a little...but that may not be everyone's preference.

To me the seating space is comparable to the Passat.

jrct9454

...IS comparable to the Passat. And the trunk is simply huge.

Having said that, I think the car is going to be, over time, a marketing disaster for VWoA. The pricing strategy is simply wrong-headed, period. You can buy, without any haggling at all, an Accord LX automatic [with everything std except stability control] for $19k anywhere in the country. I've owned everything, both Japanese and European, over the past 43 years, and VW simply does not have the dealer network, the reliability record, nor much of anything else that can justify the kind of price premium they want for this car.

The only unique thing they have going for them is the diesel - which isn't even available yet, and which will be priced from $22k and up when it is. I priced a TDI DSG on their website, and with no extras at all it came to $23k. For that and another $800 or so, I can buy an Accord EX V6 in most urban markets in the US. Or if mileage is really important, availability of the Prius is now at the point where they can be purchased all day long in most markets for under $25k.

I think the car is a significant improvement over its predecessor, and a very nice piece of work - but the competition is brutal at the pricepoints that VW seems to have to charge to make a buck on this car. Good luck.

jeffyscott

Mr. Nippon - Buy that lousy Corolla
already, then. There is more to cars than just the dimensions.

Toyotas have seats that are uncomfortable because they are too small, a floaty disconnected ride and vague handling...but I don't feel compelled to go on Camry or Corolla discussions and go on and on and on about it.

jeffyscott

Looking over the features the Accord LX seems comparable to the value edition of the Jetta. This will go for about $19,800 so price is comparable to the Accord. That price includes the optional stability control (unavailable on Accord LX) and 4 wheel disks (also unavailable on Accord LX).

The Accord probably has a couple things the VW does not. But for us the good brakes and stability are important safety features.

nippononly

OK, will stop raining on everyone's parade. I believed the hype, but a visit to the dealer was a cold shower for me. A very nice car whose price is too high and power is too low, I think. We will see what happens relative to sales of years gone by. I will wager the Jetta III (or IV maybe?) will end up marking the pinnacle of U.S. sales

robr2

I received a follow up call from the dealership at which I did the Road Show drive. They asked me for my thoughts and I told them I was pleasantly suprised by the vehicle but that at $26K it wasn't a very good value in my eyes. He didn't have any response for it but just asked me if I minded if he followed up with me after I drove a couple of competitors.

jeffyscott

Did you tell him you were going to look at a corolla next :-)?

robr2

Ah no. I'm looking at the TSX and S40. For that much scratch I want a little more prestige/snobbery than the Jetta can provide.

600kgolfgt

Methinks the dealerships are trying to pump up their profit margin a bit too much... I would price it in the low 20's range. Mid to upper 20's is a stretch...

mazda6s

$24600 is waaaaay to much for a car with vinyl seats.

ivan_99

How about leatherette?

Maybe it’s just semantics…a vase (vaz) sounds better than a vase (vAs)

venus537

only the TSX comes close to the cars you listed and it's not any more powerful than the jetta when equipped with an automatic transmission.

with the exception of the mazda 6, the other cars you listed get well over $27k when they're similarly equipped. the mazda 6's workmanship is economy fare compared to the jetta. the point is that when the 2.0t becomes available these premium compact cars will have nothing on the jetta.

i know you didn't say it was impossible for the 2.0T to get better gas mileage than the 2.5 but you did find this hard to contemplate.

it was the last jetta (IV) that is by far the sales champ. i'll have to think about that wager of yours though.

venus537

the jetta 1.8t actually had 10 more horsepower than the audi a4 1.8t because the jetta had a transverse mounted engine that was better able to get turbo boast.

now the jetta 2.0t will have the DSG transmission and the audi 2.0t won't. that's right, VW has yet to designed the DSG to work with a longitude mounted engine. go figure.

merc1

Yeah I do remember that, but I'm looking for VW to make these engines their own when it comes to hp. There is no need for the complexity of a I5 if its only got 150hp imo. They should have at least tuned it for 175hp then I'd see the point. A Mazda 3 has a nice 4 banger with 160hp? I guess torque is higher with the I5, not sure?

So what if the Jetta has more power than a base A4, let Audi worry about that. VW needs the edge right now.

M

ivan_99

It would be nice if VW had "approved" tuners where you would still get to keep your warranty, but modify the car with a chip.

Similar to what MB did years ago with AMG...or DINAN with BMW.

merc1

Well Mercedes pretty much had no choice but to embrace AMG since it was started by a couple of ex-Mercedes engineers. The 500E collaboration between Mercedes and Porsche wasn't going to cut it with AMG poised to tune every MB model. I wonder what MB will do about Brabus. Brabus tuned Benzes make the AMG versions look tame. There is already a Brabus A-Class officially available from MB in Europe.

BMW interestingly enough has already worked with Alphina too. Dinan puts out some truly wicked BMW conversions.

VW should go this route I guess in some form. I'd like to see more "R" cars from them. At one time, before the initial sales didn't happen, there was talk of a R version of the Phaeton. What a car that would have been. I'm sure there will be a R version of the new Jetta, Golf and maybe even Passat at one point. Lets hope.

M

iancar

At the first glance at the new Jetta, the word "corolla" almost roll out. Of course, VW got a beauty edge there, but how can they built a slightly bigger corolla with camry's price tag. Whos going to pay a premium on top of a small eco-car without a prestiage badge on it? And worse, VW do not have the legendary reliability and resell-value records like Toyota's. 150 horses is impressive for 5 years ago, but now, a mustang can crank out 300 horses with a price tag just little north of the Jetta's. I guess they havent learned a lesson from phateon yet. Producing great cars without the prestige badge, the good reliability record, and the right market with the right price.

600kgolfgt

With the 150hp 5-banger, there's no incentive for me to upgrade from my 180hp 1.8T. Besides, I don't upgrade my vehicles until the car is close to the end of the production cycle. By that time, most of the bugs will have been worked out. I have no desire to become a Beta tester for any automobile company.

Look on the bright side - if it weren't for the Europeans, Japanese or Koreans, we'd all be left with the Cavaliers and Cobalts of the world.

nippononly

"Look on the bright side - if it weren't for the Europeans, Japanese or Koreans, we'd all be left with the Cavaliers and Cobalts of the world."

Well, yeah, but that is a LOT of folks to leave out - more than 40% of the market these days! :-)

venus: "only the TSX comes close to the cars you listed and it's not any more powerful than the jetta when equipped with an automatic transmission"

I'm not understanding your remarks here - the auto TSX is rated for the same power as the manual, I believe.

jeffyscott

No fan of vinyl or "leatherette" myself, but BMW 325i list price is over $29K and vinyl upholstery is standard. And for $29K you get that plastic upolstery on an uncomfortable (too hard and too small) seat, imo.

Apparently the majority of american buyers see vinyl as an upgrade over cloth.

nippononly

"Apparently the majority of american buyers see vinyl as an upgrade over cloth."

If so, I am not one of them - give me cloth any day. It is too bad BMW doesn't offer regular old cloth as a no-cost option (I believe they do in the 1-series that we probably won't get now). In fact, I would rather have cloth than real leather in most cases. On topic, the optional leather in the Jetta is pretty nice.

venus537

I'm not understanding your remarks here - the auto TSX is rated for the same power as the manual, I believe.

to be more clear i should have said that the base jetta is on par with the automatic TSX in terms of acceleration. the extra 40 horsepower from the accord i4 seems to only help manual transmission TSXs in most driving situations.

the torque of VWs 2.5 is similar to the TSX's torque and more is available at lower RPMs. add a more efficient 6 speed auto and the jetta does indeed keep up with the auto TSX. i will say this though - the TSX sounds a lot better.

the buzzy 2.5 engine isn't appropriate for a $27k car. it should have nothing less than the 2.0t, which is what i'm waiting for (maybe).

venus537

if you equate small cars to economy cars then the jetta isn't for you. the jetta may not have the prestige of audi but the last jetta did establish itself as a premium small car.

lets turn this around, how can a camry cost as much as a jetta? it doesn't have the classy interior, craftsmanship, attention to detail, solidness and no where near the driving dynamics of the new jetta. i agree the 2.5 is a sore spot in comparison. c'mon 2.0T!

jeffyscott

I certainly agree on cloth. I prefer cloth over leather. But, the Jetta leather was very nice for leather.

We are only planning to buy an under $20K Jetta. The non-turbo engine that uses regular gas is preferable to us over a turbo. I think we are in the majority on that unlike the leather/vinyl/cloth issue :-).

We did look at some $27,000 cars that had turbo 4's, I considered that to be a negative actually. I'd rather have a small V-6 with torque at low RPM...if I were interested in upgraded engine. To me the 5 cyl is a preferable compromise to a turbo 4.

wetwillie

Isn't the 2.5 5 cyl. a half V-10 Ferrari engine?

jeffyscott

1/2 a Lamborghini V-10, they claim.

nippononly

with SLIGHTLY less than half the power, LOL! :-)

ivan_99

The turbo 4 produces more low-end torque than many “regular” sized 6 cylinder motors.

You maybe thinking of the “old school” turbos of the 80’s.

Example.

The 3.0 Liter Accord makes 216ft-lb of torque at 5000rpm
The 2.0T in the VW makes 206ft-lb of torque at 1800rpm.

But this engine doesn’t wall within your price constraints so 5 cyl looks like the way to go.

jeffyscott

I was not really thinking of a comparison of turbo 4 to 6 cyl.

What I meant was if I wanted more torque than a regular 4 cyl, I think I'd prefer to get it by going to a V-6 over going to a turbo.

The 2.5 5 cyl is enough power to satisfy us for this size/weight of car.