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2013 and earlier-Subaru Outback Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,508
    What part of the country?
  • chipkchipk Posts: 7
    sry, Chicago.....
  • morin2morin2 Posts: 399
    You can use the Edmunds used car appraiser here:

    http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/outback/2007/index.html

    Consider buying a used car out of state. New England is very tough on cars. Rust from the heavy salt use combined with damaged suspensions from the worst roads in the US make for very difficult used car shopping. My wife and I are originally from Quincy and Taunton, respectively but have lived in MD for 29 years. The quality of the roads is night and day. I commute 108 miles a day and don't see a single pothole on roads that are resurfaced with fresh 3" of asphalt every other year. And our cars don't rust.

    Check with your MVA in MA and see if you can fly out to buy a southern car and drive it back to MA legally.

    And Go Red Sox.
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Posts: 1,207
    Use the 3 below to find their avg. price then compare how far off with dealer sale price
    edmunds.com (here)
    NADAGuide
    KBB.com
  • chipkchipk Posts: 7
    After getting a quote from a local dealer for a grey 3.5 for $500-600 over invoice, we decided that a silver model was the color of choice.

    Same dealer was able to find one in Milwaukee (we're just south of Chicago) but with a sunroof for and extra $1,000, it's simply too small to be of value IMHO.

    Found a silver model with opt pckg 2A, mirror and matts and asked them (internet sales person at LaRiche Subaru in Findlay, OH) if they'd take invoice.

    She said sure, great, when do you want to pick it up? As they are four hours east of me, they were kind enough to meet us half way in Indiana.

    Very pleasant to deal with, no surprises, would highly recommend her!

    I think the MSRP was $32,462, bought it for $30,215.

    That day she had 250 miles put on her and the dash was showing 25mpg??

    Need to top her off and see what she says over the next tank, and while I lost a few mpg with the 6 cylinder, she sure has some pep!
  • curvecurve Posts: 20
    Can you tell us what is a "convenience and protection package 1A"? I have not seen that on any sticker. Is that dealer specific?

    Nobody in this forum seems to wonder why the dealer sold you the Limited under invoice. It makes no sense. There are no cash incentives on this model. Why do you think you got such a good deal?
    Thanks.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,508
    Those grouping codes are typically not used on window stickers. If you go to Edmunds.com and look at the car build-out screen, it will list all accessories and equipment groups. According to the site, the "Convenience and Protection Group 1A" includes wheel arch moldings and splash guards and invoices at $416.

    If you are curious, this link should take you to the Edmunds page I referenced.
  • Sounds like your question about packages was already answered, so as far as the price goes....

    "Nobody in this forum seems to wonder why the dealer sold you the Limited under invoice. It makes no sense. There are no cash incentives on this model. Why do you think you got such a good deal? "

    Don't know for sure! I'd like to think because I'm such a nice guy, but my wife may have a different opinion on that.

    My guess is that they want to do more volume with a lower margin and get their name out. They still made over $600 on the car plus the $150 doc fee, so not too terrible.

    I asked about three dealers if they'd take invoice and most wanted $500-1,000 over, so it was an easy decision!

    Really like the car too!
  • bigdadi118bigdadi118 Posts: 1,207
    Below the invoice there are ...
    2% holdback
    Extra secret incentive from Subaru to dealer, like meeting the sales quota, stair-step style.
    Dealer Admin/doc fee, some charge as $599.
    Dealer Add-on options, extra profit : retail - cost.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    I am new to this forum and new to Subaru.

    Just factory ordered a steel silver 2010 Outback 2.5i Limited PZEV with moonroof and Nav and lots of extras - puddle lights, remote engine starter, XM satellite radio, dimming rear-view mirror with compass and Homelink, shock sensor security upgrade, all-weather mats, all the cargo nets, splash guards, wheel locks, bumper cover, and wheel arch moldings. I didn't need PZEV where I live, but for only $300 more, and the fact that I will probably keep this vehicle for 10 years or more, I thought I would do my small part for the environment.

    Edmunds dealer invoice price was $31,440. I got $500 below invoice. Is this a good deal? I already gave a $500 deposit. When I actually have to sign the sales contract after the vehicle arrives in 4-8 weeks, do I still have room to negotiate a bit more? I am trying to recoup some money since I missed out on clunkers and could have gotten $4,500 off the price of a new vehicle for my 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan with almost 139,000 miles.

    The dealer gave me an independent appraisal of $1,000 for my van trade-in but did not list it on the buyer's order. I have gotten another appraisal of $1,200 at another dealership that buys used cars even if you don't buy from them. Of course, I am still driving the van and putting more miles on it and these appraisals are only good for 7 days, so I may not do as well in a month or two when I finally get my new car and have to get rid of the van.

    Just want to make sure I am getting the best deal possible since I am new to this car negotiation thing.

    Thanks in advance to anyone for your help and response.
  • Judging from mesages posted last year it seems that fall incentives (a.k.a. rebates) appeared starting in November. They seemed to range from $1,000 to $1,500 which would give me an incentive to wait before buying, no? Anyone with more past info and/or future speculation?
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    rkrat,

    Umm, are you seriously asking if $500 UNDER invoice on the all-new 2010 Outback was a good deal? There are no factory or customer incentives on this new car, so $500 under invoice is basically seriously eating into their holdback, and they are probably making a couple hundred dollars profit on it at best.

    I was able to order my new Outback at invoice using the Subaru VIP program and considered myself very privileged to get it at that price, so count your blessings.

    If you don't mind, please expound on your location and what you did to get it that far under invoice! Is there fine print on the sales order for things like prep fees and advertising fees that make up that $500 under invoice? Sounds too good to be true.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    I'm in Northern VA. I originally was dealing with one Subaru dealer during clunkers who refused to give me any concrete numbers. So I went to another Subaru dealer that advertised via their internet sales that they would beat any price by $150. As soon as I walked in the dealership and asked if they could quote me numbers, they did. I think I knew right then I had found the right dealership.

    We are USAA members (husband is retired AF), so while getting my insurance info on-line during clunkers month, I also sent out info to USAA certified dealers via the USAA website. One Subaru dealer in MD came back with $200 below invoice. The dealer in VA beat that with their additional $150.

    Then while doing all my research on how to go about negotiating the best deal, Consumer Reports suggests starting at the invoice price minus the holdback. So I presented a number to the dealer and he said he would give me $500 below invoice. I had the chutzpah to ask if that was on top of the $350 quoted so far and he said absolutely not! So I knew from his voice over the phone I had reached my bargaining limit with him.

    There was one more dealer in VA that advertised they would beat any deal by $200, but by then I was tired of playing the game and I had already asked the current dealer I was working with to order the car.

    I guess I have read too many posts where people have gotten $1,000 below invoice when negotiating a car deal and I was kicking myself for procrastinating on my "extras" before deciding what I wanted to order during C4C. If I had made my decision earlier, the dealer probably could have ordered a car in time to get a VIN number for me to qualify for C4C and I could have gotten $4,500 for my van. However, I wonder if more dealers were quoting MSRP and then taking $3,500 - $4,500 off, rather than selling close to or at invoice and then taking the C4C money off.

    The only other fees quoted are VA sales tax (3%) on invoice plus processing fee of $289, a dealer license fee of .17% on invoice only (I checked these fees on the VA DMV site and they are legit); and $62.75 in tags and registration. I have to find out from the dealer specifically which fees quoted on the VA DMV site this includes.

    Unfortunately, VA has no legal restrictions for processing fees as does MD ($99), so the doc processing fee is all over the map at VA dealerships. The first Subaru dealer had a fee of $369 and I have seen some other non-Subaru dealerships as high as $399.

    What I didn't know is if I could still negotiate during the sales contract signing for anything else (since I have a buyer's order in hand) such as throwing in the car mats or cargo nets since I specifically ordered them with the vehicle, or if the doc fee is negotiable.

    I also didn't know if the dealer quotes me lower on my trade-in than they did a month ago how hard I should push that issue since the KBB and Black Book values I have are higher.
  • when I was shopping in late July I was offered $700 below invoice on a '10 OB without any negotiation ... from the same dealer in NoVa where I instead bought my '09 OB Ltd (which I much prefer to the '10)... maybe deals have tightened up but that was the pricing I was quoted when the '10s were just beginning to come into dealer stock (they had about 20-30 or so IIRC).
  • rkrat,
    Of the MD dealers which offered you the best deal? Thanks.
  • 204meca204meca Posts: 366
    Elliot: You say htat the VIP plan price is AT invoice. I had the impression that with the VIP plan the pre-negotiated price was 2% BELOW invoice. Can anyone clarify which is correct? Also, does the VIP appply factory options such sunroof, Autodiming mirror, puddle lights...?
    I will be contacting two dealers via internet this week to get prices on a 10 OB & will inform them up front that I have the VIP membership. One already told me he would sell us an OB at less than the VIP price so I want to be sure I have the proper understanding of what is included in VIP pricing structure. Thanks.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    seabrook7039 - It was Heritage Imports in Owings Mills. It was an internet quote of $200 below invoice via the USAA website.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    Fendertweed - Which dealer in NoVA offered you $700 below invoice on a 2010 Outback with no negotiation? Were you buying off the lot from their inventory? And how did you manage to get such a great offer? I am just curious to know if it is the same dealer I am working with. Thanks.
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    Fendertweed - Just went back and read some of your old posts where you mentioned the dealer - Stohlman. That is who I am dealing with. They are much nicer than some of the other dealers I contacted in No VA.

    Still would love to know how they offered you $700 below invoice on a 2010 Outback Ltd. Great deal offer.

    Do you think I still have room to negotiate when I actually have to go in to sign the sales contract when my vehicle is delivered?

    I have also seen people mention the VIP program to get additional money off the price of the car. Can anyone shed some light on this for me? Thanks.
  • Do dealers get the holdback for factory ordered cars or does it only apply for cars that are on their lots?
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    > "Elliot: You say htat the VIP plan price is AT invoice. I had the impression that with the VIP plan the pre-negotiated price was 2% BELOW invoice. Can anyone clarify which is correct?"

    The EXECUTIVE VIP Program is 2% below invoice. AFAIK, that's reserved for actual Subaru employees and other direct affiliates. I have no idea how to get that. The "regular" VIP program offered through many employers and via memberships through various sporting clubs is AT invoice.

    The regular VIP program's terms are that everything ordered from the factory is at invoice.

    I ordered an 3.6R Ltd (Azurite blue) with nav, moonroof, protection package 1A, puddle lights, interior LED lights, mirror with Homelink, trailer hitch, and several cargo nets -- all factory installed and at invoice price -- Invoice is $33,635 (MSRP $36,781). So I effectively got $3,100+ off of MSRP.

    My dealer (Glanzmann Subaru in Philly suburbs) charges a $99 "dealer prep" fee with gugs me big time but they swear on their first born it is non-negotiable. Total charges including that dealer fee + tags, PA doc fees, tire tax, etc. total a reasonable $295 + 6% PA sales tax. Compared to some posts with $289 and higher just for dealer "fees", I can see how they can get away with charging under invoice and still pay the rent.

    That said, I still feel envious that so many are easily getting deals under invoice with no negotiation, which quickly deflated my ego that I was getting such a good deal. Congrats to all who are pulling off those deals -- and I hope that those deals aren't padded with undervalued trade-ins. (I always make sure my deals are independent of the trade, and in fact I'm selling my old Forester privately using a courtesy pass-through at the dealer to save PA sales tax.)

    Elliot
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    Seabrook - From all my research, dealers get the holdback for every car they sell regardless if it is factory ordered or from their inventory on the lot. In fact, some info says to negotiate for the entire holdback on a factory order because the dealer doesn't have to expend any money to put the car out on the lot. The car comes in, the car goes out. (That's why I was wondering if I negotiated hard enough with a final offer of $500 below invoice after hearing about some of the other deals people got).

    On the other hand, some info said Subaru holdback is 2% of total MSRP; other info said 3% of total MSRP. Consumer Reports gave an actual dollar amount of $849 for the particular model and options I ordered. That amount equates to 2.5% of MSRP.

    Consumer Reports also said that a fair profit for the dealer is between 1% and 5% of the total MSRP. When I crunch my numbers, I compute that my dealer is making 1% of the MSRP with the below-invoice price he quoted me. So I think I got a good deal - and I am getting a new car with lots of goodies - something I never had before ! :)
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    eps105 - May I call you Elliot? Thanks for this info about the VIP program.

    Are the interior LED lights you ordered the illumination package? I was thinking about getting that but then I thought it might be a distraction for me while driving at night. Please let me know how they are when you get your vehicle.

    Be thankful for the $99 doc fee. It galls me to be paying $289 in VA (and that is cheaper than some VA dealers), especially since neighboring MD is $99 by law. Not sure if I can negotiate that fee down some when I actually sign the sales contract. Some research info says you can and some says you can't. But then again, some research info says you can't touch holdback, other info says you should negotiate price with the holdback in the mix. I guess it is all a matter of how hard each side is willing to dig in their heels and not budge on their bottom line price.

    I'm glad you mentioned about the trade-in. I will definitely try to sell mine to another VA dealer that advertises buying used vehicles even if you don't buy a car from them. They offered me $200 more for my van than the Subaru dealer I am buying from. When I am ready to actually sell, I will have my KBB price in hand and fight for the highest amount I can get. In fact, my Subaru dealer offered me $500 less for my van than the lower end of the KBB value, so that is definitely how they would make up the $500 below invoice they quoted me, as you stated in your post. Thanks for helping me out!
  • eps105eps105 Posts: 216
    Yes, I ordered the illumination package. I actually haven't seen it in real life, but as far as I know, it is a very soft glow no more distracting than the glow of the dashboard backlighting or the nav system.

    Driving at night, I find that I have trouble grabbing my drink in the cup holder, so the illumination package goes beyond purely aesthetic to actually being functional, at least to me.

    Elliot
  • rkratrkrat Posts: 25
    The picture of it looks neat on the Subaru web page under the accessories and options.

    I wonder if it is too late to add to my factory order. (This is exactly the type of indecisiveness that led me to miss out on C4C! :( :confuse: )
  • Well, we are late to the OB bandwagon, having had a summer we didn't get around to looking for cars, and the only Caravan not eligible for C4C.

    Does anyone know what is a *fair* price for used 09 2.5i Specials, autom tran, ranging from 6-13 k miles? Kelley BB has them listed abt that price; but I see from yuor June-July postings buyers were getting the 2.5is (not specials) new for 18-19k.

    The ones I've found on the net in our area (Bucks Co PA & Trenton NJ) all appear after Carfax check to have been in rental fleets near airports.

    Thanks for any help!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    They were such bargains back then that I'm not sure the price will be significantly lower now.

    Still, if you can get one for 16-17k or so, that's a lot of car for the money.
  • I'm in the Detroit area - Offered $31K (plus tax, title, plates) for the following. Expect to hear today.

    Options:

    Factory-ordered Cypress Green 2010 Subaru Outback 3.6R Limited 4dr Wagon AWD (3.6L 6cyl 5A) with:
    Optional Equipment:

    04 Power Moonroof

    MSRP: $995

    Invoice: $829

    LP2 Protection Package 1A (arch moldings, splash guards, rear bumper

    cover, all weather mats and wheel locks)

    MSRP: $766

    Invoice: $483

    E0A Media Hub

    MSRP: $349

    Invoice: $227

    K0D Auto-Dimming Mirror w/Compass and Homelink

    MSRP: $271

    Invoice: $176

    Q0G Moonroof Air Deflector

    MSRP: $111

    Invoice: $72

    M0C Rear Side Compartment Cargo Nets

    MSRP: $65

    Invoice: $42

    M0B Rear Cargo Net

    MSRP: $52

    Invoice: $34

    M0A Front Seatback Cargo Net

    MSRP: $52

    Invoice: $34

    Other options to be included: Hood protector, Ski rack and Center armrest extension, cargo mat and std carpeted floor mats.
  • I am seeing them listed at around 21-22 k, owned for abt 7-8 months, with 6.5-13 or 14k mi on them. Carfax showing no accidents, just being owned in towns that happen to house large airports. They are the Special edition, not stripped. Not that we want that, but it seems to be what they ordered for the rental fleets.

    Does that seem reasonable to you folks, and if we should be bargaining, what should we be aiming for? Thanks again!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Seems high to me. That's about what base Outbacks cost when new.

    How much were those SE models? New, I mean.

    A program car should be 10-20% less than new.
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