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Lincoln LS: Problems & Solutions

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  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    they wanted to use existing technology, guess they got this one ready to bid >:-D

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/960457.asp?0dm=C16OT

    I just wonder if the paint is re-entry heat resistant, though ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,645
    Which car was it that had the engine in the back and the radiator in the front, with longgggggg tubes running the length of the car? Was it Fiat X1/9? All I remember was it was a nightmarish engineering solution--can't recall the car, though.

    Better way is dual radiators in the rear quarter panel air scoops.

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  • alcanalcan Posts: 2,550
    Don't forget that gem from Pontiac, the Fiero.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,645
    Overheating can be a damn hard diagnosis sometime. There's a lot more to the problem than meets the eye.

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  • and most of the time you can't see/feel/hear what the problem is.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    the first rear-heater I was aware of was the 1975 Suburban... a second heater core and cheapo fan way back by the tailgate! I do imagine that replacing those heater hoses was a tad pricey, think they ran through a frame girder for protection. you had to have the diesel pretty warm for that heater to put out.
  • My wife recently bought a Windstar. Do you suppose that thing has a heater core in the rear?

    schneider11: Have you ever found out what was the problem?
  • I posted the original question and guess what...my car is still in the shop and not fixed. A new processor was installed and two days after the same thing happened, I drove to work , approx. 45 miles, no problem, went out to lunch and when I got back in the car the heat indicator shot up and the car eventually died. This has happened now 6 times. The service manager thinks it's electrical but I guess that is a really difficult thing to trace. Bottom line is that for as much as I paid for this car, it should be running great with 110,000 miles on it. Mostly highway miles too. So the saga continues....very dissapointed with Lincoln Mercury cause I have a 1992 town car with 260,000 miles and it runs great.
  • Don't trash Lincoln just yet. If this is the first problem you've had with the LS, then you're due for one. You're right, if it is electrical, those can be the hardest to trace if it's an intermittent problem.

    Making some assumptions here: You trust the mechanic has the proper knowledge, skills and tools to do the job. The power steering pump is working properly as well as the solenoid and valves connected to the fan, fan also. So air flow is not the problem. There are no air pockets anywhere in the coolant. If there are, then that could cause your problem. The water pump and T-stat has been checked and are working properly. There are no kinks in any of the radiator or heater core hoses to impede flow. Nothing has been dropped into the radiator or engine, such as the foil seal off the anti-freeze bottle, that could block key passages.

    If the problem is a "happens one minute, then not happen again for several days" sort of thing with all other variables being the same, such as driving styles, conditions and temps, then the problem would almost have to be electrical. Has the mechanic been able to reproduce the problem? If he has, did he physically check to make sure the engine was ACTUALLY overheating? You mentioned a new processor, did you mean PCM? That leads me to think that maybe the car really isn't overheating, but only thinks it is. I can see where a bad temp. sensor or PCM could create the scenario you describe.

    As it has been revealed earlier, I'm no expert here, just a shadetree trying to help. You've got one of those problems that will drive you nuts trying to find it. Good luck.
  • The LS CPU uses a single bus to carry messages to all the modules -- if a connector is not electrically sound, it can introduce noise into the system -- and screw up something else at the other side of the car.

    That happened to my 2000 LS V-8 (along with a host of other problems, including a sticking thermostat).

    I've never heard of it -- but if the sensors on the engine communicate through the same bus -- the problem, if electrical, could be almost anywhere -- including (and especially) the shaky grounding path from the rear of the car (aluminium sub-chassis) to the front, where the CPU and alternator is located.

    Bottom line- intermittant electrical problems are a real bear for even experienced LS mechanics to diagnose.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    in the old coax Ethernet days, I had to resort finally to hooking up a TDM (essentially sonar for wires) and an oscilloscope to every bloody coax run we had, shake each connection as I looked down at the scope from the ladder, and rebuild a number of connections and throw out a dozen T connectors to get rid of a bunch of flakies. this was over something like 120 runs with over 2500 connections. couple months worth of nights doing it.

    the way it's done on a car electrical bus should be, disconnect all connectors after pulling the battery cable, clean up anything that needs it, put a thin coat of dielectric grease or CAIG De-Ox-It on each connector face, skim the O-rings with dielectric grease, connect/disconnect several times and then put 'em together to stay and move on to the next connector.

    if anything looks burned up, you have to get appropriate connector rebuild parts and fix it.

    common busses suck from a repair perspective. I much more like switched connections, in which separate runs to each geegaw end up in a master connections box that electrically kicks signals where needed when needed. very little fails there, and it only affects the nutty branch when it does. don't suppose this equivalent of the $19.95 ethernet switch has made it into cars yet.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,645
    I had a 1963 Buick Riviera once and it had an overheating problem that never got solved. Craziest thing. Even took the motor apart to no avail. I think it was a hot spot in the internals of the block itself, a casting defect. But I wasn't about to put in another motor to test that theory. I was very tired of the car by then. It was a gradual overheat...you could almost time it. It would climb degree by degree and you couldn't stop it by any means you tried. Even a larger radiator and special fan didn't work.

    I think if I had had a 500 gallon cooling system it would have eventually boiled, given enough time.

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  • LIKE MANY OF THE MESSAGES I'VE READ I TO HAVE THE SAME INTERMIT ANT OVERHEAT PROBLEM. I AM NO CRACK MECHANIC AS I'M SURE MANY OF YOU ARE, HOWEVER AM PRETTY HANDY. I THOUGHT OF A STICKING THERMOSTAT, BUT LOOKING UNDER THE HOOD I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS MUCH STUFF IN THE WAY. WHERE, EXACTLY, IS THE T-STAT. I FOLLOWED THE UPPER RAD HOSE TO THE BLOCK AND IT APPEARS TO BE A FOURWAY CROSS ROAD AS I LOOK AT THE TOP THERE IS AN ALLEN WRENCH TYPE COVER THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT TORQUE. I HAVE CHECKED WITH NAPA AND CHECKERS AND BOTH SAY THEY DON'T SHOW A LISTING FOR THE PART. IS THIS OEM ONLY? FOR GOOD MEASURE I BLEW OUT ALOT OF CRAP THAT WAS BUILT UP ON THE FACE OF THE RADIATOR. AND FINALY I WATCHED THE FAN SPIN FREELY WHEN THE CAR WAS RUNNING. SHOULD THAT FAN PICK UP IN SPEED WITH MORE RPM? I NOTICED SOME OF THE MESSAGES REFERRED TO A HYDRALIC FAN, AND IF I UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY IT IS CONNECTED TO THE P-STEERING PUMP? COULD THAT SYSTEM NEED NEW FLUID? AGIAN I CAN HANDLE TOOLS BUT NEED GUIDANCE. CAN ANYONE HELP? THANKS IN ADVANCE
  • I love that car (BULLLIT).

    I just changed my thermostat today on my 2000 Lincoln LS. I'm having the same problem as the origional post (overheating occasionally). Last time it overheated, I checked the "hydrolic fan" and it was screaming. I replaced the thermostat without purging the system and it overheated again. I then purged it and drove it hard for amout a mile and no problems yet.

    Bullet 01, I read you post before replaceing my thermostat. It appearst I have the same setup as you do "ALLEN WRENCH TYPE COVER" <- I fugure that is the the purge cap. Below that is the thermostat. If it the same setup as my car, you will find the t-stat running to the lower radiator connection, not the upper. (PS - dont use all caps in your next post, it's hard to read)

    Now I need to let off some steam. The dealership wanted to charge me $500 to replace an o2 sensor and a T-stat. The parts cost me $56 ($11 T-stat, $45 O2 sensor) I'm not a mechanic and it took me 10 minutes to replace the sensor and a hour to replace the T-stat (including the time spent doing a test drive, running up to store for advice and antifreaze, purging the system and doing another test run).

    I'm going to keep reading and posting because I suspect that the thermostat isn't the cause.
  • swschradswschrad Posts: 2,171
    so how much boat can you get there for $500 a month, anyway? because it sounds like somebody at the dealers needed to make one of those payments.
  • scottc8scottc8 Posts: 617
    seem to be the LS's biggest problem. There are a lot of poor ones. I'm fortunate; for $500 my dealer will flush and fill the auto trans, flush and fill the cooling system, and give me back about $300 change.

    Captain, if you've successfully purged the LS cooling system, you're a better mechanic than you know, or maybe a bit lucky, because it's very difficult NOT to get air trapped in the system, which causes overheating. We've seen this enough times in our owner's club that most of us recommend biting the bullet and paying a dealership the $80 or so they charge to service the cooling system. Congratulations.
  • I worked fine for a few days but it just over heated again. I'll have the dealer purge it for me and see if it fixes the problem. (a different dealer)
  • I called a dealer and they confirmed that air pockets can cause over heating. He said purging the system isn't too hard (just time consuming). He said to open the purge cap, rev the engine (something i didn't do before) wile adding more antifreeze when the level goes down. He said it may take up to a half hour.
  • scottc8scottc8 Posts: 617
    is a keeper. Finding a dealer knowledgeable about the LS is way harder than it should be. Finding one willing to share that knowledge with a DIYer is outstanding.
  • Did you get your car fixed?

    We seem to be having the same problem. I just noticed that when the car temp starts climbing, turning on the heat for about 30 seconds makes everything fine the rest of trip. As mentioned earlier, there probably is an air pocket. I'm suspecting that by turning on the heat and opening the heater core passage, the air pocket is moved to a nonharmful location.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,305
    to this discussion a few weeks ago when I mentioned elsewhere that my LS was overheating.

    I have a reputation as a malcontent, and it's well deserved. I bought my LS because I wanted a quasi-luxury sedan with a manual transmission, and hoped for decent reliability. My warranty ran out in June, when I hit 50K miles, with three years on the car.

    The overheating "issue" turned out to be the hydraulic fan, which ran at only the lowest speed. As has been explained to me recently, the hydraulic system is preferred because it allows continuously-variable speed for the fan with relatively less noise. Excellent. However, when it breaks, it's an $800 fix. Mine broke. Yours may as well.

    The other good news is that I was able to exercise my "after warranty adjustment" to get the cost down to $150.

    Stay tuned.
  • My 2000 V8 LS has been exhibiting the mystery overheating recently, too. Over the past two weeks, the temp gauge would redline, the messages started beeping to check the engine temp, and the auto power reduction feature kicked in, and then all systems would return to normal. This happened 3 times.

    Yesterday, after driving the car around town all morning, the temp redlined again, but did not come back down. My warranty expired in August with less than 50,000 miles. I just dropped the car off at the dealer.

    What could it be? I looked up the recall info on the 2000 LS thermostats, and my build date falls within the recall timeline. The dealer flushed and replaced the fluid in my cooling system just before the temp started acting funny--could be air in the system.

    We'll see how bad it is.

    I want to say that my Lincoln has been trouble-free, but that hasn't been the case. This is the most recent of an annoying series of repairs made to my car in the 18 months I have owned it. (I bought my LS used.)

    Although it is a dream to drive, I'm not sure that it is worth the trouble, time and money it takes.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,305
    Please let me know if this turns out to be the hydraulic fan. I need to know what's coming up in my future.

    The sad fact is that once something breaks once, it's likely to break twice. The whole rest of the car can be fine, but if one of the key systems is suspect, it's much more likely that you'll be beside the road rather than enjoying it.

    Thanks in advance.
  • MACWEST,

    I would suspect that when the dealer flushed your system, they didn't purge it properly. I had the same sysmptoms as everyone else. Had the dealer purge it and problem gone.
  • I picked up my LS--the dealer said that I had a loose vaccum hose that was causing the fuel mixture to run lean, which in turn was causing the engine to overheat. They found this out by computer, since they could not reproduce the overheating condition. Cost $176.00 to fix, since the warranty is expired.

    The car runs beautifully now.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 3,305
    macwest. It's nice when simple fixes make what could be major problems go away.

    I was hoping for something like a thermostat replacement for my car, but it was not to be.

    Glad it worked out, and thanks for reporting back.
  • Have a 00 V8 and the Hydraulic Pump for the engine fan sprung a leak (yup its hydraulic from the same folks that brought us the dip-stick-less trans) :-( Dealer quoted $450.00 for the pump with assorted plastic parts and said pump only not available. Anyone know where I can pick up a pump??
    Thanks

    Jack
    info@graphics2.net
  • I haven't dug into this sytem...

    You sure it's the pump, not the fan's hydraulic motor? I was under the impression that the pump fed both the cooling fan and steering. Maybe not.

    Anyway, check local salvage yards first, then try www.fordpartsnetwork.com
  • rgnmstrrgnmstr Posts: 226
    Someone posted that starting with the 2003 models the heated seats are no longer heated electricly. Just how are they heated?
  • There is a debate going about this in another LS forum right now. Apparently, the '03 uses a Peltier device for both heating and cooling. The system is manufactured by Amerigon. The '04 ~may~ have been changed somewhat. We're not sure yet since there aren't a whole lot of them out there and press coverage is nil. It looks like the '04 could possibly have changed the heat mode to some kind of resistive element similar in idea to the earlier models. Personally, I don't buy it. I think the '04 still uses Amerigon's complete system.
This discussion has been closed.