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Mazda RX-8 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    you're probably looking at an 05 now? Do these apply to the Shinka or is it a special breed?

    Not that I'm looking to buy, of course, but for curiosities sake, what kind of rebates, if any, are they doing on the purchase of an 05? It's not gonna be long before they're gonna have to put some back into moving those as well.

    Not needing to go thru MAC to finance the 04's is really nice. Their rates were not great, and I'm sure most people with good credit could more than beat it at most banks, credit unions...

    BTW, I don't think you've ever mentioned the color you're wanting? Red?
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Gotta sell my BMW first, so by that time that happens it may be hard/impossible to find an 04 like I want. Of course, but that time they may have promo money on the 05s as well.

    The $2k in lease help is it on the 05s and you have to do MAC lease to get it.

    That said, carsdirect shows $100 under invoice on a new 05 depending on the ZIP code. So the dealer is just going to make the hold back and a dealer fee. That still is a LOT more than $4,500 or so UNDER invoice for an 04. Down the road the difference in value between a used 04 and 05 will be $2k or less. So unless the 05 is within $2k of the cost of the 04, the 04 (to me) would be the better buy.

    My S2000 is red, and I am not sure I like the metal-flake look of the 8 red or not. I like the dark gray (titanium) or maybe even just the sunlight silver. The red would be OK, but I don't want white, black, or the nordic green. I would not mind the yellow like you have, but I am afraid my wife and sons would not ride with me - my daughter still would, however :D

    The sports pack is the best deal, but I like having the moonroof. Maybe a touring car w/NAV or a GT w/NAV. Love the NAV, but if paying more than $5k under invoice might have to skip that :cry:

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    AutoWeek long term RX-8 wrap-up

    Interesting reading. Many on the staff would STILL buy an RX-8 for themselves, despite the dismal fuel mileage, high oil consumption, and pitiful resale value.

    Just something to think about before deciding if the RX-8 is the car for you or not.

    If you already have one, just a reminder to check the oil frequently and a warning about future resale value.

    Dennis
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    I've seen plenty of "gripes" about the fuel mileage, but mine is not bad. To go along with that, I expected to get so-so fuel mileage (if I wanted GREAT mpg, I wouldn't have bought it). also, the best I ever got in my Eclipse was about 22 on a highway trip, but 18 or 19 was it for around town. I'm glad to see they gave it the thumbs-up for winter driving with PROPER TIRES. Someone bellyached about that over in the probs forum. As for resale value, what car out there really has good resale. Let's face it, it you drive it off the lot new, you take a big hit on first year depreciation. Some of the cars that claim to have such great resale - accords, camries...- no thanks, I'd rather push mine than drive those!! I'll take the hit and drive it a while!!

    Color - Red was my second choice. I tend to agree with you on the metallic flake - I like it initially, but kinda wears on me after a while. Silver would have been my 3rd. Black was out because it gives me a coronary trying to keep it clean and the scratches and swirls make me want to cry. I ABHOR green cars - no nordic. Titanium was not bad but looks kinda purple in some lighting situations. White I could live with if all other colors were gone. Don't like the winning blue. I avoided those on the lots, but the book says that's a metallic color as well.
  • Anybody have any good/bad experience with Open Road Mazda in New Jersey?
  • kmorriskmorris Posts: 6
    okay, which seems the better deal:

    2004 Sunlight Silver 6speed with
    -grand touring pck
    -6cd changer
    -rear spoiler
    -appearance pck
    -rotary accent pck

    per dealer quote: msrp 33164; invoice 30231, offer 26231

    -or-

    2005 pearl white (or maybe titanium gray) 6 speed
    -sport package
    -mats, cargo net

    msrp 28895, invoice ~26522 (my calculation), offer 25995

    Is either a good deal? The heated leather seats and moonroof would be nice, but the other stuff I don't care that much about. It would be nice to have the 05, and I like the gray or white more than the silver I think. I'd like to make a decision asap.

    thanks for the input...
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    the obvious - you're getting more "stuff" on the 04. Keep in mind that you need to factor in the extra year of depreciation on this one. I went to KBB.com and put in the options you mentioned on the 04 with my zip (yours may be different), with a manual transmission and using 1000 miles, the trade on the car is $23,950 right now. I may have missed some options - you might want to give it a try. I think you can get a better price on this car. When I bought my 04 over a month ago, what i paid was lower than the trade value at that time. May not mean anything!!

    Sounds like you like the 05 just a little better. My 04 has only the sport package and the navigation system (not my choice to have it, but it's ok). Many of the options you listed on the 04 can be added by your dealer. I'm doing just that with a few things and using the "pay as I go" rather than financing them in the initial buy of the car.

    Payments with these 2 numbers will be similar, as you probably know. Buy the car you like best!! Let us know what you decide!!
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    By "offer" do you mean what the dealer has offered YOU or is this what you are thinking of offering? The first would be a firm offer to buy the car, the latter is just speculation.

    On the 05, the car includes mats so unless you want those rubber "all season" things no need to pay more. Invoice on the gray looks to be $26,788 for the car and the net, in white it would be $26,950. A good price on an 05 would be $100 or so under invoice.

    On the 04 there must be something missing - I get $30,105 for invoice based on what you listed. I also get $33,764 for MSRP. The dealers are getting a $4,000 discount to sell the 04s, I read where it is now up to $4,500. They STILL get to keep 2% of base MSRP as hold back, which on this car would be a little over $500. A better price might be $4,500 to $5,000 under invoice. They can't sell these cars, they should be happy to get rid of one and break even or make just a couple hundred on the deal.

    The 04 has more stuff, some you don't want - so that makes it harder to compare.

    Right off the lot, the 05 will retain more value. Down the road, the 04 will never be more than $2k less than the 05 and will be more likely $1k or so less (it has more stuff and will have low miles for an 04).

    It looks to me you can get the 04 a little cheaper, and it will be worth only a little less down the road - but has more stuff on it. I would lean toward the 04 if that was my only choice. I would also check with lots of other dealers, since they may have a more suitable car on their lots. I don't car for the appearance package (for example) and it adds $775 to the dealer cost of the car. The CD changer adds $400. So if you found a similar car elsewhere without these 2 items you could save $1,175 on the car. I would get the 04, but one I found elsewhere with more stuff on it I wanted (NAV) and less on it I did not want (appearance, changer, maybe the wing).

    Dennis
  • kmorriskmorris Posts: 6
    The offers are what the dealer has offered to sell the car for, I didn't make offers, I solicited bids. I thought the '04 was only a so-so deal as well. If the '04 was only the GT packge I might take it, but I actually kinda like the car w/o the spoiler, don't really care about the other appearance packages (though the heated, leather, moonroof would be nice like I said), and like the idea of having an 05 rather than and 04 that will soon be a 2yr old car if it is roughly the same price. Plus it looks like the dealer is offering me about $950 below invoice if i go by your calculation of invoice on the white '05, which looks like a "better deal" to me?
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Go to carsdirect.com and put in the options that are on the 05 you are interested in and it will total up the MSRP and invoice for you (both including destination).

    The 04 VS 05 debate is a valid one - IF you got a car like you wanted. Where are you located? I would try to find other dealers in the area with left over 04s and see what they have left. The GT option is nice, the other stuff is just raising your cost on the car. Find one with less fluff - or maybe a touring package car (Bose stereo and moon roof, but no leather) and the difference between 04 and 05 would be a lot less. To get more for less, I would take a properly equipped 04. Down the road, the difference will never be more than $1k-2k - so saving $4k now on the right car is a better deal.

    Mazda and the dealers can't sell this car. So I would look for 05 incentive money to show up in a few months to try to move the 05s off the lot. If you are set on getting an 05 or can't find an 04 that suits you, they will surely get cheaper and cheaper the longer you wait.

    Just be warned about the fuel and oil consumption rates - and as you can see resale value is not likely to be too good down the road either. But it IS a fun to drive, very unique car.

    Dennis
  • kmorriskmorris Posts: 6
    I checked out carsdirect.com, and their price is $27,092 or about $1100 more than what I've been quoted by two dealers now. There is a second dealer that is willing to match the first dealers quote of 25995 on a 2005 MT RX-8 (gray or white) with sport package, cargo tray, cargo net. That is several hundred less than the better equipped '04, which for some reason the dealer wasn't willing to budge. I told him I was getting better prices on "05s and he said "okay, thanks for calling me back." I can't see paying more for the 04 even if it does have leather, sunroof. I've looked within 200 miles or so and haven't found any other 04s I liked. If he would have come down maybe $1000 i think the 04 would have been the better deal.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    carsdirect prices vary with the ZIP code you put in. Looks like in your area they don't have a dealer willing to deal much.

    If MazdaUSA still had the 04 cars in the inventory search, you could probably find a car within 300 miles that would suit you. Without that you would have to call all of the dealers to see what they have. At this point, the 04s are MOSTLY less desirable colors and/or fully loaded (NAV, etc) or maybe AT cars. Most of the choice one are more likely gone - or the dealers dealing rock bottom prices have sold most of theirs. Dealers that will not deal on these 04s are destined to have them for a LONG time.....

    Dennis
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    where are you?
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    the dealer I bought from last month is very motivated to sell a rather extensive 04 inventory. My deal was almost $5000 below invoice, plus they were very generous on my trade. If you're feasibly close to Charleston, WV, I could see what the remaining inventory they have. They did have 2 or 3 white 05's as well. I might just give my salesguy a call tomorrow to see how things are going with moving the 04's and I could post a few of what they have left.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I wish everyone would update their profile with a location and maybe even an e-mail. So much of recommending a dealer or incentives or lease deals is region specific and without knowing where someone lives it can be hard to offer advice.

    For example, I have heard that on the left coast, they just can't find any 04s now. I guess they have done a better job of selling them there or the 8 is just more popular there. Around here, they are are down to just a few 04s but the dealers don't seem to be as highly motivated (yet) as some others.

    Dennis
  • kmorriskmorris Posts: 6
    I did search on autotrader.com within about 300 miles and didn't turn up too many 04's that met my liking, though some there was insufficient info to tell for sure on some. Seems like they are AT, base, or loaded to the gills. I guess it is okay to say that I am in Illinois to satisfy your curiousity. Again I searched about a 300+ mile radius to find the deals I mentioned above on exactly the car I wanted. I think I've decided on an 05 MT with sport package (also has cargo net and tray, no other options) got a quote from the dealer for 25900 after a couple of rounds of phone negotiations. Thanks for all the input:)
  • kmorriskmorris Posts: 6
    Just put a deposit down on a 2005 manual RX-8, titanium gray, sport package (cargo net and tray as well if you care to know exactly:)

    MSRP 28,825
    Invoice 26,594
    paying 25,800

    I'm happy, but I'll be a lot happier when I pick it up :D
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    That is a good price, assuming it includes destination and they don't tack on dealer fees. That is less than invoice - holdback, so I don't see how they are making any money on the deal. Are they "making" you finance with them either with a local bank or through MAC ? If you are, make sure you are getting a decent rate on the loan.

    I think the gray would be my first choice, if I had a choice :D

    Dennis
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    You're gonna love it!!
  • bullockbullock Posts: 1
    lhess: Would you post the dealers name?
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    Lester Raines Imports. Actually, South Charleston, WV. Since I can't post phone numbers or sales people names, they do have a web site www.lesterraines.com which has nothing more than directions and phone numbers, no inventory on line. Last time I was there, they still had well over 10 04's in stock. ALL are manual, some of the 05's may be autos, but I didn't inquire about any of those. They are motivated to sell!!
  • kmorriskmorris Posts: 6
    My price includes destination, and I did my own financing b/c I could get a better rate. So I'm not sure how they're making any money either, but hey, the less money they make the more I save, right?
  • kschottkschott Posts: 2
    Dealer in the northeast has the following listed (I haven't gone in to talk to them yet, this weekend hopefully, pending responses here):

    2004 RX8 6spd Std Yellow
    navigation system, rear wing spoiler, portfolio, floor mats, appearance package, wheel locks

    Price: $34,525
    Sale Price: $27,997

    Not sure what the "portfolio" in options refers to, but other than that I'm getting the feeling that the sale price is maybe 2k to high?
    I'm new to tracking down true dealer costs, incentives, holdback, etc, so I'm hoping the people here can set me straight, you all certainly seem to know your stuff on pricing RX-8's!

    Thanks...
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I don't have my 04 invoice prices in front of me, but I think the invoice on that car would be around $31,600. There is a $4,000 or $4,500 dealer incentive, so $27,600 or $27,100 would be a decent price for this. $26,600 would be a super price. So they are a little bit too high, but I am sure you can work them down :D

    I am not sure what the portfolio is either, but it may be a book they book out about the new RX-8. Seems like they gave them to the first xxxx folks that purchased an 8.

    These cars are getting near 2 years old, so there is no reason the dealer can't let you have it for $0 cost or just make a little hold back.

    Dennis
  • kschottkschott Posts: 2
    Thanks for the numbers and advice. Went to the dealer today, they wouldn't budge at all on the price so I left.
    I don't think the wife minded, she wasnt to hot on the yellow to begin with (read: she hated it).
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    From the MazdaUSA web page:

    2005 RX-8 6-Speed $299/Month, 24-Month Lease, $2,598 due at Lease Signing. Includes 1st Month’s Payment and Security Deposit. Excludes taxes, title and fees.*

    * The Amount due at Lease Signing is higher in the following states: North Carolina ($2,993); Virginia ($2,993); and West Virginia ($3,010).

    ** Dealer participation required. Not all lessees will qualify for lowest payment through Mazda American Credit. Some payments higher, some lower based on residency and other factors. Not available for NY residents. Lessee responsible for excess wear and mileage over 24,000 at $0.15/mile. Total payments of $7,176. Purchase option at lease end for $16,187. Take new retail delivery from dealer stock by 5/31/05. See participating dealer for qualifications.

    Notes:

    This is a base 6 speed, hopefully the other cars will have a similar promo lease - but of course will be more per month.

    This is a 24 months lease - a very hot deal for a 24 month lease.

    The residual is at 59% for this.

    If you take the money shown down and remove the first payment and security deposit you end up with $2,000 as a "Cap cost reduction" (down payment).

    If I take the invoice price - $2,000 and a 24 month term and a money factor or 0.00001 (free money) I get the payment of $299 per month. So either the money factor is "nothing" (not likely) or there is discount money to the dealer in the deal. If I use invoice - $4,000 (your $2k and $2k from Mazda) then the MF works out to 0.00222 (5.3%). The right number may be something else, we will not know until we get the details from a dealer.

    This may be only for 24 months leases, or they may have similar specials for 36 month terms.

    Dennis
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I guess the good news is discount and incentives will HAVE to come now - they can't sell them without. I wish I knew how many of the 1,001 they sold were 2004 models.....

    Dennis

    Mazda North American Operations - April 2005

    Month-To-Date Year-To-Date

    April April % April April %
    2005 2004 Change 2005 2004 Change

    RX8 1,001 2,207 -54.6% 5,918 8,234 -28.1%
  • grantlugrantlu Posts: 12
    From the Edmunds site on incentives, it does list the same deal with a couple more details: $1000 from the factory and $1000 from MAC. The only deal is for 24 month and MT.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    let me clarify the current 2005 RX-8 incentives for the northeast region...

    $1000 customer cash + $1000 Mazda credit rebate(mac cash)
    only applies to Lease or AVP.

    if you pay cash or finance there are no incentives.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    But what is the money factor?

    Dennis
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