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Mazda RX-8 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    All cars now have computers in them to control everything. The RX-8 seems to have an unusually powerful/flexible computer. The "flash" is just a software update for the computer (I think it is called the PTC or Power Train Controller).

    They can adjust air/fuel mix for any RPM (improve mileage/cut pollution/make more power) and change any number of things. One thing I read about was originally the a/c compressor would cut off when the revs hit 5k - to enhance acceleration by taking the load of the compressor off the motor. Starting in one of the flash loads that took this out of the code, so after the flash the compressor will stay on past 5k rpm.

    One part of the fixes for the new recall may be another new software load - and probably some heat shielding for under the car.

    Kinda of like Microsoft - three new patches for XP/Win2k/Win2k3 came out this morning.

    Dennis
  • mattzenmattzen Posts: 2
    anyone recently buy an 8 in the Los Angeles Area? i'm getting pretty serious about getting one soon and am curious about what i should be paying here. i know a lot of folks here are saying i should be able to get one at or under invoice. does that hold true in car happy LA? i'm also diggin the new lease incentive that's valid till the end of july. thoughts?

    also, what is the best way to approach buying/leasing. should i get dealer quotes through the internet first (eg. edmunds/mazda website) and then go to them or should i just go to a dealer with knowledge of their invoice pricing etc... any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I always start at carsdirect.com . Put in your ZIP and see what no haggle price comes up. If you don't get invoice or below widen your search by using other ZIPs in your area.

    Also, you might check on the other Mazda forums here. Not a lot of 8 activity here, but there is more on the 3's or 5's or maybe MPVs. Someone over there may know which dealers deal easy and which do not.

    I would shoot for invoice or below AND then the $2k MAC lease rebate.

    Dennis
  • mattzenmattzen Posts: 2
    Thanks Dennis! I very much appreciate the tips! :shades:
  • pathospathos Posts: 5
    Dwynne,
    Thanks for all the great information.

    Do (did) these deals exist in california? Specifically below invoice and also a $4000-4500 rebate on 2004's.

    If so, it's too bad I missed it. I'm about to lease and I believe (correct me if I'm wrong), the year doesn't make a difference, so I'd prefer the 2004 at this point. However, I wonder if 2004's have a lower residual than 2005's or something like that.

    Maybe I'll wait until next March for another great deal.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    You have to just call around and see, but others in CA have reported no 04s at dealers. Since Mazda removed them from the online search no well to tell except to visit the dealer, visit their web page (assuming it is up to date), or call them.

    You should be able to do close to invoice now or under, then there is a $1,000 MAC finance rebate or a $2,000 MAC lease rebate going on now. The finance rate might be high, but you can always take the $1k off and refinance later. The lease rate is a quite a bit below the market rate and is a very good deal.

    Dennis
  • dsmdriverdsmdriver Posts: 3
    The MazdaUSA site says "2005 RX8" for the lease, so I would assume it is only for the '05. They have totally different incentives on each of the models.
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Correct, the $4k money the dealers got for the 04s is it - no more help from Mazda.

    If you run the numbers, the 05 lease deal through MAC is MUCH cheaper than getting a lease on an 04 (which would have to be leased as a used car at this point).

    Dennis
  • A local dealership has a titanium 2004 RX-8 with Nav, tinted, spoiler, ground effects package, red/black leather interior with 8,000 miles. I called and they said Kelly Blue book was $31,600 and they were selling at $28,900.

    Does this seem high for a used RX-8?

    Jake
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    That is about what I paid for a new 05 GT w/NAV and "0 miles" last month (counting the $2k in MAC rebate).

    A left over 04 should be $26k or for a NEW car, this is a used car so I would say $24k or so.

    Dennis
  • pathospathos Posts: 5
    Dennis,
    Thanks for writing back.
    Could you explain why it's cheaper to lease an 05 than 04? Is it just because the car is a year old? Or does it relate to residuals, etc.?

    I got a quote for 2K down + 399/month (x35 payments) [taxes, etc included] for a 2005 Sport pkg/6CD/rotary accent/cargo net at 15K miles/year x 36 months.
    They used invoice (which includes a 150$ LA transportation fee - ?BS) - holdback (538) + profit (200) - cash back (2000) to total at 24877. The residual is only 45% for 15K miles/year this month (I saw their paper). I believe it was 48% just last month, this makes me want to buy it at the end if the car isn't having problems (for 11-12K$, +tax I think). And MF was 0.00138 (about 3.3% APR).
    The quote sounded high for these numbers, using a couple of lease calculators. It's always hard to tell if they're tacking something else in. There is a 475$ bank acq fee, 45-75$ doc fee, 425$ deposit, 8.75$ tire fee involved for sure. Any input?
    Dennis, do you mind telling me what number you got for your lease? It seems like you of all people would have gotten a fair/good deal. Just want something to compare it to, so I don't feel I'm getting jipped. Thanks!
  • Thanks so much Dennis - I spoke with the dealer last night and he's trying to impress upon me that because it has so many features they wanted to sell it so high. I was thinking no more than $25,000 myself, since I could get a new Shinka for $29,000 (according to Carsdirect.com)

    Of course, he wants me to come and talk, which I'm not in much mood to do. I guess he thinks if I see the car, etc., I'll fall for it.

    Thanks again,

    Jake
  • pathstar1pathstar1 Posts: 1,015
    They had Phil Edmonston on local TV last night - I loved his comment "This industry (car sales) is one of the most dishonest in the world".

    Of course he thinks you'll fall for it, or anything else he tries.

    Resist, resist, resist. There is always a better deal around the corner. No hurry to buy or commit! Ever!

    The more you look around, the more knowlegable you will get. You will know when you see a "good deal".

    Car salesmen hate me. I don't play their game. ;)
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    Well, once the model year has past then the 04s are considered used cars to the lease bank. Almost all of them use the ALG lease residual numbers and the number to lease an 04 that was NEW would be the same number that you would get for leasing a used 04. Looks like on a 3/36k lease right now the residual would be $12,600 for a base or sports pack car.

    Your lease payment is based on the the difference between your negotiated low price and the residual with the money factor applies. If you found a left over new 04 with sports pack and paid $24k for it, the depreciation alone would be $11,400 over 36 months or $316.67 per month - and that does not include interest. The money factor is usually a good bit higher on used car leases as well.

    Are you looking at an auto or 6mt? The auto residuals are 2-3% worse, I am told.

    Also, you and the dealer are looking at the WRONG lease - the sweet spot in the MAC lease deal is the 24 month lease! The residual on a 24/24k is 56% and should have an even lower MF than the 36 month deal. For a 24/30k lease the residual will be 55% or 54%.

    Mine was based on the June deal, which was 59% residual on a 24/24k lease and the MF was 0.00107 (2.5%) if you paid security or let them bump it up to 0.00122 (2.9%) and they waive security. I don't know the MF (but could work it out), but I was told the residual on the 24/24k lease dropped from 59% in June to 56% now. To keep the "$299 a month" payment for the base 6mt in the promo they reduced the MF even more. So you should be looking at 56% and 0.001 or less. 55-54% for a 24/30k lease.

    Dennis
  • thelthel Posts: 767
    The local dealer has 3 black RX8's. The chapest one has the GT package with the cool red and black leather seats. MSRP is $31.5k. I seriously doubt I can afford one, but how much should one of these leftovers go for? They have 3 04's on the lot so I hae a bad feeling that they are not too willing to let them go for a song but...

    BTW, they had it in the paper last week for a sale price of $26,XXX.
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    mine stickered for $30,300. They priced the car from the get-go at $27,900 and then minus the $4000 Mazda rebate at the time. I asked for another 1K off the car which they showed as giving me on my trade so i ended up financing $21,4??. I never thought I could afford a new one either, but my payment actually went down. I would hold out for a slightly better deal considering the time of the year - 06's aren't that far away!!

    PS. I love my 8!!!!!!!!!!
  • thelthel Posts: 767
    That's almost $9k off of MSRP! Maybe $22k is in the realm of reason afterall?...

    Maybe I'll go fo a test drive afterall. I just don't want to waste the salesmans time if I can't afford one, you know? Then again, maybe they'd welcome someone driving a car that has been on the lot sooo long.
  • lhesslhess Posts: 379
    the leftover 04 prices were better than the used ones I found. Mine is a 6 mt with the sport package and navigation - no touring or g touring, but I've added the rotary accents, a cd changer and the rear wing spoiler for about another $500 or so. I financed for the longest term ( I usually make way more than the minimum payment, but with being single, I feel safer knowing that I can cut my car payment to the bare minimum if I need to) and my payment is $350 or so.

    Go check them out. I don't think $22k is out of line for a car that's about to be 2 model years old. I was in your shoes exactly and told my salesguy that I was possibly dreaming to even think I could buy one, but he was great about it and worked up the numbers long before I expressed a real interest in being able to buy one. Once you drive it, you'll have to have it!!
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    It may be hard to imagine, but Boston Mazda dealers don't seem to care about selling cars. I can't get ANY offers. I've expressed great interest in an RX 8 AT with a Sports package to a local dealer after a really long test drive. I brought my six year son on the test drive so he could enthusiastically endorse the car, which he did. I was sent away to find my own price on Edmunds.com by the manager himself.

    Then I sent e-mail requests for quotes on the specific RX 8 model and package to all four metro dealer. They all sent back "Call Us" boiler plate email with really wacked nonsense statements like "Now that we answered you email... call us for a test drive"

    I've been a Saturn guy for a decade now so I don't have a clue what the magic words are to get the typical rabid dog dealer to come barking at my door.

    I made the first moves by test driving, telling them I really love that Black RX, giving my home number, work number, cell number, and e-mail address. I told them my wife had given permission to visit dealers and my car budget was look'n pretty healthy. The only thing I politely pushed back on was the idea that I didn't think I needed to pay full retail.
  • thelthel Posts: 767
    It's quite simple really, you simply need to walk into the dealer of your choice and make an offer on the car you want. Usde Edmunds, Carsdirect.com, magic 8-ball, or whatever to decide how much you're willing to pay for the car and then start going to dealers and making offers. If none of them accept your offer, you simply need to raise it until it is accepted. It should not take very long, a few minutes at most. Do not get caught up in the :...wait here while I go check with my manager (for an interminable amount of time)" nonsense. Just offer them $XX,XXX and let them accept or reject in a reasonable amount of time.

    If you wait for the dealer to call you up with an offer you will most likely be wainting a looong time, that simply isn't how most dealerships work. It sounds to me like maybe you're dropping your number hoping a dealer will call you up with a discounted price without you having to "work" for it and most dealers just don't work that way (some do, but not around here anyway).

    Good luck!
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    I went to carsdirect.com and put in ZIP code 02113 (should be somewhere in the Boston area) and the no haggle price price comes up $500 OVER invoice, which is about $1,600 under MSRP for an AT car with sports pack. That would be a good place to start. There MAY be a dealer doc fee on top of that, but other than taxes, tags, and license that should be it.

    You can also put in the ZIP code of other areas close enough to drive, since $500 over invoice is a little high. Around me, the no haggle price is invoice or $100 under, but I paid $500 under last month (negotiating on my own).

    Don't forget that there is a $1,000 Mazda credit incentive if you finance with MAC and a $2,000 incentive if you lease with MAC. So the $500 over invoice price turns into $500 or $1,500 UNDER invoice. The MAC lease is an attractive rate (2.x%) but the MAC loan may be a little higher than you can get from your bank or credit union - but you can always take the $1k and the MAC loan and refinance at a lower rate ;)

    Dennis
  • shabzshabz Posts: 2
    bought an 04 rx-8 6MT titanium grey about 5 months ago, but new to the forum. Its got the sports package, bose audio, navigation, and moonroof and got the final price to $23,400. Bought it from Irwin Mazda in Freehold, NJ.
    I was about to buy a similar one in philadelphia, from PACIFICO MAZDA where i had a unique buying experience.
    When i first came in to see the car the price they gave me was about $500 more than the initial internet price i received which got me into their dealership to begin with. Frustrating, a little dishonest, but expected. Then they gave me this nonsense that they actually received the car from another dealer and paid that other dealer $1000 over invoice to get the car because they thought the car would sell quickly so if they gave me a price under invoice they'd be losing money. I just left and immediately got a phone call the next morning saying they'd give it to me for $4000 under invoice "after a long discussion with the owner of the dealership" (yeah, ok)
    Then when i came in to finalize everything they told me they could only give me the financing and interest rate for a used car, cause the car was technically "used". I said well if its used then adjust the price im paying to reflect that, they said they couldnt do that because it was actually still new. What a run around, not worth my time and a horrible dealership in terms of ownership, management and salesmenship. If anyone wants to know what dealership not to go to in the northeast......its PACIFICO MAZDA in PHILADELPHIA.
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    OK, I guess my dealer visiting protocal needs an update. My Saturn dealership experience is to blame. Ultimately I thought it was never smart to make the offer to buy at any price before the dealers first offer since the dealers hold all the cards on special discounts and hold backs.

    I thought if I was willing to sit and wait patiently, the dealer would eventually see I was serious and begin making offers that would knock my socks off.

    But if I begin to low ball, say $5000 under invoice, will the dealers get mad? Some folks here on Edmunds seem to have recieved such huge deals so starting at an outrageously low price and working up would seem OK.

    Thanks for your advice though. I knew I was doing something wrong.
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    Yep, I can get a price, Edmunds gives a $500 over invoice price when I punch in my 02136 zip. I was thinking about the really big deals that some folks have been posting about where, 05 close out time pushes the price well below invoice.

    Here's my reasoning:

    1) Gas prices are high so RX 8 looses points there.

    2) GM's, Ford and Chrysler are killing with the employee discounts.

    3) RX 8 sells have been lower than expected.

    4) 05 model has some problems with recalls and complaints, flood stall, weak battery, overheating, oil usage.

    I can't see how Mazda RX 8's aren't being used as a loss leader by dealers just to get folks into the show rooms. It's almost like they are waiting for something else to happen in the market before they really start to sell.

    This same thing happen in 1987. The RX 7 had just been through a huge design upgrade and sells were lagging. They started selling a stripped down RX 7 for $11,999 and Mazda pushed that price everywhere, TV, Newspaper, radio. Why can't Mazda do this again? Why wouldn't they?
  • thelthel Posts: 767
    You can make whatever offer you want, but if your offer is waaay off the reservation, you may lose some of that credibility you mentioned you were trying to build. As for the dealer getting mad, you can't control their temperment / reaction so don't worry about it. If they are professional, they will simply decline without freaking out or anything.

    Also, you may want to take some of the deals you hear about on the internet with a grain of salt...sometimes people tend to exaggerate their deals on a forum by leaving out info about getting hosed on their trade, huge doc fees...things of that nature. Just like a previous poster found, who was drawn BACK into a shady dealership with a very low $$ figure, if it sounds too good to be true it most likely is.

    BTW, Edmunds quotes do seem (to me) to be a bit high and I doubt how up-to-date they are on thier incentive info sometimes so feel free to offer less than Edmunds suggests.
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    I just went through CarsDirect using my zip code 02136. Also tried 02113 from above. CarsDirect basically declines to give a matching dealer. Also tried Edmunds.com, Cars.com, Intellichoice.com no luck on getting any Internet bid form ANY Mazda dealerships.

    Is there any place in the New England area where an Internet based negotiation process can actually be accomplished? I'll drive 150 miles no problem to pickup an Black RX AT with the Sports Pakg. It just seems nuts that in todays market, Mazda Dealerships would be able to stone wall the Internet and force a completely local on site negotiations process.

    Any body want to toss me a zip code that works with any Mazada dealership in New England. Thanks much.
  • Try 01104 in Springfield, MA. You should get a dealer in West Spfld, Pittsfield and maybe in Brattleboro, VT. Inventory is not great though. Try a southeast Ma zip code. That will get you RI too.
  • trispectrispec Posts: 305
    Just submitted from your 01104 zip on CarsDirect and Edmunds. A Springfield Dealer did show up. Thanks.
  • pathospathos Posts: 5
    How did you manage to get 6K under invoice? (assuming you got a touring with nav). Because that's amazing.

    Of note, most of these uber-deals seem to be from the east coast, or the south. Not the west coast. They are pretty popular out here in california...

    jackie
  • dwynnedwynne Posts: 4,018
    They said it was a sports pack w/NAV - and it was a left over 04. Mazda the dealers $4,000 (some say $4,500) to help them get rid of them. So if the dealer dips into the hold back (and some do) then $4,500 to $5,000 under invoice was possible. They also said something about the car not being new, in which case all bets are off price-wise.

    Dennis
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