Mazda RX-8 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

dtran2149

Another factor I try to consider is ownership term. I figure if I buy a car I love (especially if it has styling that will not become dated and the technology is ahead of its time), I will hold the car that much longer.

Personal Example: My first "nice" car was a 1992 Mitsubishi 3000GT. I drove that car for 7+ years and 100k miles. I paid $28,465 (drive-out price including tax) at the time, and I got $8000 when I sold the car in late 1998. That puts the depreciation part of ownership at $20,465. Divide by 84 months (7 yrs * 12 mths) and I get a whopping $244 a month cost of ownership! I think that's a pretty reasonable ownership cost level. I'm hoping for the same from the RX-8. As a matter of fact, if I adjust the 3000GT price for inflation over 11 years, the price of that same 3000GT would be about $37k today! So I feel I am getting a better car at a lower cost in real dollars today than in 1992 as well.

But back on the concept of ownership term, I think people can get a much nicer car with higher overall satisfaction if they get what they want and hold it over 5 years vs. selling in 3-4 years. I think buying an RX-8 for $5k over a Honda Accord initially equates to a similar cost of ownership if you can hold it 1-2 years longer.

Personal Example 2: My own Waterloo was buying a Jeep Liberty. Originally bought it to try the family thing, and I only kept it 1 1/2 years! It just felt hard making payments on a car that you didn't love! So I had to let her go. . . I probably paid $5500 over that time period for a monthly cost of $306. Expensive mistake, but now I'm even more convinced you should get what you like and also "be true to yourself" in terms of what makes you satisfied with a car!

dtran2149

Also, regarding the long-term, let's face it: If someone is on track to retire w/ $1-2 M dollars, I'm not sure how much difference $5k makes today. At an assumed 6% return over 30 years, $5k will be $29k. A nice chunk of money, but only representing 2% of a $1.5 M level retirement goal. Of course, people will argue you should save all you can, but then again, retiring with slightly more money does not equal a step change in quality of life.

I think if you reach upper-middle class status, you can afford 99% of the goods and services available for retail purchase that theoretically contributes to your personal happiness. You would need to be at the $50M level to afford the next 0.5% and even then it would not be a big difference in your personal happiness. Just ask J.Lo!

pmorg

Hi,

Does anyone know where I can find (on the web of course) the numbers of RX-8's that Mazda has brought into the US (a monthly breakdown would be nice)?

I was able to find the total number of RX-8's sold thru November (10,267) and it would be interesting to know how many had been imported.

Thanks!

graphicguy

All of them are imported to the U.S. since they are all made in Hiroshima, Japan.

In short, everyone of them that are here on U.S. soil has been imported.

cheezeboy

oh boy ...sorry I brought up that thread....because I don't even own a watch OR a tv........

wait...hold on...I think my car just winked at me through the window...gotta go for a drive......!!!!

pmorg

Right, all of the RX-8's come from Japan ... so, if I can find out how many have been brought/imported into the US by Mazda, and I know how many they've sold, then I can (roughly) estimate the surplus. Did that make any sense?

graphicguy

Ah....OK, now I see what you are asking for....

Mazda's goal was to sell 12K RX8s in North America for '03. From all I can gather, they will blow away that number. Pretty amazing since they didn't go on sale here until the very end of July with very limited supplies. Supply continued to be tight in August and September. It loosened up beginning in October. Then, cold weather hit in much of the country and sports car sales, in general, tailed off a bit. Still, sales up until today had been running a little better than Mazda planned.

Deliveries have caught up to demand over the past month or two, so dealers have stock. I would expect they should have a "bang-up" December since there is stock at the dealers. Stock seems to be highly dependent on geography. Around my area, for example, they are still in short supply with each dealer only having 3-4 in stock. I've heard reports of some very large dealers having as many as 30 in stock. When I check out the sources, though, those dealers are stating that they are including cars that are on the way via transport, but they don't have them at the dealership, yet. But, again, it's dealer and geography dependent.

I was at my dealer yesterday and the sales manager says the average amount of time his RX8s are staying on the lot is 48 hours.

Looking into next year, Mazda plans on selling 30K RX8s for the '04 calendar year. If nothing goes horribly wrong with the economy, that shouldn't be a problem and my guess is, they'll probably exceed that amount.

Just curious, what kind of study are you doing?

pmorg

First, thanks for the info! But, I'm not doing a study ... at least not an academic one. I'm just trying to figure out what sort of "leverage" I might have when I go to purchase an RX-8. I figured that I would be a better negotiator if I had a sense of how "flexible" they might be with the price; and I thought I might get some small measure of the dealer's flexibility, if I had a sense of how well the RX-8's were selling in general. Though if, as you pointed out, it's location dependent, then my fact gathering may not be as helpful as I had hoped. However, it does seem as if the dealers in our area (L.A./Ventura County) have RX-8's sitting on their lots, so who knows.

rider1950

Just bought a red mica RX-8 in Louisville Ky. Dealer had about 20 on the lot, but had tacked on a dealer prep charge of $995 over MSRP and had a $350 charge for title, doc prep hidden in the license and tax cost. After walking out and coming back twice, I got the car with Gran Touring and Navi for $31,200. I feel like I paid $1,000 more than I should have but in total got the car for about $1,000 or so under MSRP without the silly add-ons costs of dealer prep and doc prep. The appearance package was about $990.00, seemed pretty steep for just some extra plastic pieces and a spoiler, so I stayed away from that add on. It seemed to make the lines of the car more cluttered in my view, but that is just a personal preference. My one regret is not getting the six CD changer instead of the single, but that is a pretty easy fix. Great car, but you have to push the RPM's pretty hard to feel it.

graphicguy

I'm in the mid-west, so I don't have any idea what the market is in L.A.

But, if the weather has been good, as I suspect it has, I would think demand would be greater out your way than it is in my neck of the woods.

Find a dealer you like and make them an offer. The worst they can say is "no". If they counter, you know you may be in the ballpark with your original offer.

crazy_eight

I bought mine in Houston a week ago. After about 3 weeks of shopping, I got what I felt was apt to be my best deal. I wound up with a titanium MT with the Grand Touring Package and not a whole lot else (no spare tire, no spoiler, appearance pkg, 1-cd-changer, no ground effects. The cost, with all the dealer charges and pre-tax stuff added in was $28,8-something. About $2,500 below sticker and about $650 above Dealer Invoice ($500 over DI plus their "fees". I pre-arranged financing so I probably saved some money there as well. I've read of some guys doing a heck of a lot better and a few who've done substantially worse. It seemed within a few hundred bucks of being the best I was apt to do. The car I got had 3 miles on it, that to me was worth a few bucks relative to one that had been test-driven.

carliker

graphic - 48 hours? I really find that hard to believe; especially during this time of the year. The only way I could see that being true is if they are giving the cars away like the post crazy_eight left showing he got one for only $650.00 above invoice. It's impossible for Mazda to blow away that 12K number since that's all the cars they were going to make for this year, but they will probably meet it. Judging by pmorg's finding of 10,267 sold thru November, Mazda will need to sell 1733 more RX-8s in December to meet 12K. Up to this point, they have sold more than 2500 vehicles a month. Right on par as long as December sales aren't horrible. Anyway, Mazda believes that this trend will continue so their 2004 amount of 30K will be met. To make the 30K, 2500 vehicles have to be sold each month...just like in 2003. However, is this possible with the hype diminishing? I'm not saying that people won't be excited about the car in '04, but will Mazda reach the same sales goal (approx. 2500 a month) as they did in the first few months when the car was introduced? I would think they'd plan for some sort of drop off unless they were going to add something substantial to the car next August.

graphicguy

I guess you can view it a couple of different ways.

For all intents and purposes, August was the first full month you could buy the RX8. Mostly pre-orders were filled before then. Most dealers had a backlog of orders through August and a good portion of September and had very little in the way of stock.

They came up to speed with shipments in October.

Advertising didn't hit in full force until Oct/Nov. That said, I get people that are asking me regularly what kind of car I'm driving. That tells me that the advertising hasn't hit everyone and there are still a large number who aren't aware of the car.

I think there's plenty of room for the "hype" (as you put it) to continue.

As the advertising gets more traction and more of them are seen on the road, more people will be aware of them, and presumably shop for one. That point, coupled with the fact that someone can actually go into a dealer, buy one and drive it home tonight makes me think December will be a good month for the RX8. As you point out, they only need to sell ~1,700 RX8s this month and their run rate is 2,500 on average.

I don't discount what my dealer's telling me about his 48 hour average time from getting RX8s off the truck into the customer's garage. I pass the dealer 3-4 times a week and I can't think of one time they had the same RX8 stock on their lot. Matter of fact, I've received $150 from my dealer for referrals....3 referrals/sales X $50 ea....and that's in a cold weather state.

You could look at it in a different way....you could say that it's essentially a sports car and sales of sports cars usually are slow.

I still get calls from the Nissan dealers from when I was originally shopping for a 350Z. At the time, they didn't have but 3-4 Zs on the lot. Now, they're telling me to come in and pick my options and color combo as they have 15-20 to choose from. Of course, the Z has been on sale for a year now, too. Those calls have tailed off in the last week or so, though...since I told them all I ended up with an RX8.

On the other hand, you bought an S2000 convertible in a cold weather month, if that has any bearing...so maybe it really doesn't matter.

dtran2149

I think carliker was just taking what you said with a grain of salt. It just sounded a little like hyperbole regarding the 48 hours and the sales figure. I think 48 hours is optimistic where I live (Dallas), and I got the impression the RX-8 is selling as expected vs. home run (much greater than expected) in the U.S.

Interesting comments regarding the longevity of the "hyped sales" period and how it plays out given people's awareness. I would look at the topic from the view of prospective sport car/coupe/sedan buyers. At which point in time does every such prospective buyer know the RX-8 is out there and can decide whether to consider the RX-8 or not. On that metric, I would think the percentage has to be pretty high (>80%). Now where it get interesting is determining what percentage of that >80% of people fully understand the RX-8 enough to consider it a comparable or not. For instance, I may know the RX-8 has come out, but I don't know much about its strengths (i.e., handling, value, etc.). I think advertising fulfills awareness raising as well as education. Also, advertising can signal triggers such as sales events, rebates, etc. I think people who are potential buyers are pretty aware, but I am not sure how educated they are about the car (i.e., some people rule out the car before considering it more fully).

blacktalon

I wouldn't be surprised if the RX-8 is selling well. It's a beautiful car that performs well, for a reasonable price.

But I'd take anything any dealer told me with one of those giant salt licks...

carliker

You make a good point concerning the advertising and making the potential consumers more aware of the RX-8 will create more purchases. I do think that sales people will have to make more of an effort to sell this car rather than the car just selling itself like it did the first few months. They will need to educate the consumer more on what makes the RX-8 a great car outside of the unique exterior design and suicide doors. That is what has to happen to get the number up around 2500 cars sold every month since the initial hype will not exist to do it.

The

graphicguy

I think more of the automotive press is also just now kicking in (like Car & Driver's choice of the RX8's as being its best Top 10 Cars). That should keep the sales ball rolling, too.

I'm of the mind that that the style gets them into the dealership. The test drive will seal the deal.

charvel6

I've gotten in a bit late on this one. I leased an RX-8 in Oct.(post #182), and just wanted to make a comment in regards to post #195 mentioning the "just another car" statement. I think the poster was trying to say that it is just another car as far as the dealer is concerned, to which I agree. I am the finance manager in a GM/Chrysler/Dodge dealership, and I can say with certainty the we are not "in love" with any vehicle on our lots. To a Mazda dealer, they are just 3000 lbs. of profit. How much profit that is, is up to the buyer.
Also, my dealer principle wasn't "thrilled" with my purchase, but with the back seat and my previous ownership of 2 RX-7's (85 and 88 Turbo), our Crossfire coupe wasn't the car for me.

graphicguy

Interesting comment....you sell Crossfires and, I'll assume, can buy one at a steep discount.

But you bought the RX8.

That's a testament if I ever heard one.

flatso

If anyone is interested in an base auto RX 8 saw one at Crystal Auto Mall in NJ for $22,495 list of $25,700. I want a few more features like the sport package but seems like a good deal. Oh yea the only downside, at least to me, is that it is yellow.

carliker

I don't think sales reps. get any discount off of a Crossfire since they aren't making many this year. Some Chrysler dealerships aren't getting any at all. That notwithstanding, the RX-8 is a much better vehicle even if they both cost the same.

graphicguy

Ya know, I thought I'd see a lot of the Crossfire's on the road. So, far none...even though they've been on sale for a couple of months.

There's a couple of Chryco dealerships within 15 miles of where I live. I've seen them on the lots, but none being driven.

They look sharp, but I tend to agree...if they're selling for $35K, I think I'd have to pass. I can't imagine Mercedes dealers getting $10K more for the SLK that is, for all intents and purposes, the same car as the Crossfire.

carliker

I think the vehicle has been a disappointment for Chrysler. It's really underpowered for the aggressive styling it shows. Also, they are going to have a faster version coming out in a year so maybe potential buyers are just waiting. The dealerships (like the one that's by you) probably aren't budging from MSRP, and people aren't willing to pay that since the car really isn't anything special. When you have the RX-8 and G35 Coupe that will allow four people to ride in them or a faster 350Z, the Crossfire can only use its styling to bring in buyers.

bigmike5

I saw an ad this weekend in a L-ville paper for an RX-8 at $24,995, with a sticker of supposedly $27,500. Don't know what it had on it. On the X-fire, my local dealer has 2, a red A/T since July and a Saphire Silver Blue A/t that they got in Nov. I test drove the red one but they wanted $38.5 or $3k over sticker at that time. Don't know what they are asking now. They were hot to have me buy it back then, but no way was I paying a premium for it. Have not yet seen one actually on the road, but I have seen 2 RX-8's--one black and one titanium or silver, wasn't close enough to be sure. The big start up cost of $8K [tools and training for tech] for the dealership probably caused some DC dealers to not get the X-fire. The RX-8 is more practical, but the X-fire exterior design IMO is more of a eye grabber. They both drove great, but I liked the RX-8 interior and roominess a lot better. Especially liked the navi system and the red lighting. They both have had about the same number of first year build bugs to be worked out by the mfg. I want to see what Mazda does on the RX-8 stalling issue, and what the upgraded X-fire due out next spring will do with 330 hp and a permanent spoiler.

graphicguy

The Xfire's exterior is "eye catching", that's for sure. Don't know why, but I thought it would look bigger because of the long snout, though.

Regarding the RX8 stalling issue, I noticed that it has tailed off dramatically from reports on another board. My guess is that most folks have finally figured out that they shouldn't be flooding it.

carliker

I wonder what the cost will be for that 330HP version with a permanent spoiler? 60K? Hopefully the Crossfire won't go the way of the Prowler if they make the more powerful engine too expensive. People don't forget it when these dealerships sell a vehicle for more than MSRP. That's just down right greedy. I believe in supply vs. demand, but they have to realize that they aren't just selling that one hot car. They will need to sell many more "mildly interesting" cars, but won't be able to since they ran up the price on a few hot ones.

charvel6

Actually, I can get a Crossfire for about $6000 under sticker through Jan. 2, 04. Employee price, minus a dealer demo allowance, minus a $500 holiday rebate from Chrysler. I sold my 04 Jeep Gr Cherokee LTD (with only $4000 miles) so I could get this car in October (the RX-8). My wife has an AWD Chrysler Pacifica, so if the Indiana weather gets too bad she can taxi me around. I just felt the RX-8 was the better car, even though the Crossfire is viewed as reskinned Mercedes, built in Germany.
If I could only get the CEL to go off........

audia8q

...you say..."I can say with certainty the we are not "in love" with any vehicle on our lots. To a Mazda dealer, they are just 3000 lbs. of profit"

I could not disagree more. Our mazda salespeople are very much enthusiast who get excited over the latest offerings from Mazda. Maybe chrysler salespeople look at everything as iron but we sure don't. We are in business to sell cars and make money but that does not mean we don't get thrilled like the buyers.

graphicguy

You know, I always thought that to be in the business, you had to at least have a passing interest in the cars you sell.

bigmike5

My experience with the local DC dealership is that the salesmen are way behind the customers as far as the product is concerned. Two years ago when the 300M Special was about to be introduced I cruised into the dealership one Saturday morning and had a bevy of salemen all looking at my 99M [with mods]. I asked if they were going to get a Special in and if so when, cause I wanted to test drive one. All I got were blank expressions til one guy took me inside and looked in a book they had, don't know what it was, and said, "Oh yeah, here it is, they are going to make some 8K of them huh? We probably won't get one unless someone orders one." They didn't get one on the lot til almost a year later, at the end of the model year. I had asked for a call if they got one in the Graphite color, and sure enough the one I saw sitting there with tree sap and bird droppings on it was Graphite. No call was ever received from the sale staff. Same thing happened before I got my platinum 99M. I saw it on the lot, but the salesman forgot to call me. When I test drove the Crossfire, the saleman had to get out the owner's manual to answer some of my simple questions, and he had no idea that in the production model they had dropped the engine hp from 275 to 215, reoriented the headlights, and removed the starter button from the prototype. Seems to me that the salemen generally don't read the trade mags, don't read the owner's manuals, or even stay up on the coming models, etc. When I asked about the 330 h.p. Crossfire supposedly coming in the spring and its pricing, it was-"huh..?? Oh we won't get any info on that until about 2 months before it hits the showroom." Maybe they are more zealous about trucks and SUVs which seem to sell more here in KY.

graphicguy

Not to stray too far off topic, but I think part of the problem is that there seems to be such turnover in the automotive sales ranks.

People like audia8q, isellhondas, Mackabee, Cliffy, etc. who post here regularly, have been with either their line of cars or the same dealerships for quite some time. Some, like rroyce even own their own dealerships. They bring not only a lot of depth with their product knowledge, but also great insight as to how a deal gets done. From what I can tell, they also are all car enthusiasts.

If you go to most dealerships, it's usually no better than 50/50 you will find someone with more than 90-days experience, usually less. That limits the amount of time they are willing to invest to become more of a product specialist.

Part of it is the dealerhip's fault as the main criteria is the amount of units sold and the amount of margin they hold on those units.

I may be wrong, but I believe product knowledge is secondary to the dealerships to the number of units sold.

Part of it is the salespeople's fault. Some (not all) don't realize that investment in product knowledge will lead to more sales.

In general, the answer is that dealerships need to train their sales people better and more often. The sales people need to ivest more time learning, not only how to sell, but the product they are selling.

Of course, I could be "full of beans" since I've never worked in the car biz.

charvel6

Sorry for the misunderstanding on the "3000 lbs. of iron" statement. After 11 years in the business, I still love a great car, which is why I have the RX-8. But if they don't hit the street, the dealership makes no money. You can only hold out for sticker for a short time. Supply obviously exceeds demand. One dealership I talked to said that the factory would "not let us sell below sticker". That was the first time I had heard that one. The Crossfire, Viper and Prowler were all limited production cars that were commanding sticker,or more. The Crossfire already has rebates, and employees can now buy the car at the "employee price", which was not available 30 days ago. I understand that Mazda will now honor the A or S plan on the RX-8, which makes the car available for around invoice. So if you work in a factory that makes radiators for a Ford Taurus, you qualify for this discount.

The new 8 is a super car, but Mazda, like other carmakers, has to get them on the street. I have had mine for over 2 months, and have yet to see another one on the road.

graphicguy

I've had my RX8 since the beginning of August, and the two dealerships that handle Mazda locally have pretty much sold out their allotment for the year. My guess is that has to be somewhere close to 300 RX8s sold.

I've only seen 3 others on the road, though....2 silver and one red mica.

They're out there. We just don't seem to be driving ours at the same times.

flatso

Do you think the great deals will still be there after the new year?

cheezeboy

GGuy - I think they are all down here in FL.....I see 2 or three a week.....but none as cute as mine!!

Flatso - I personally think MSRP is a good price for what you get! Don't pay more than what Mazda says at their web site though. Don't know where you live, but the dealers here in South Florida offered me MSRP at the end the month....maybe "end of month' with 'end of year' could get you more of a discount

but there are others here who know more about this subject - I defer to them!

flatso

They are discounting them pretty good here on the East Coast in Joisey. I of course always want more for less so that's why I am waiting.

audia8q

Here in the northeast many consumers see the RX-8 as a seasonal car. We sell a years worth of product during the spring and summer months and not many during the winter....

So the people who buy in the cold winter months usually get a much better deal than the summer buyers.

This is how it has been with the Miata for years.

flatso

The Miata was $4000 off at the dealership I visited. Oh if I only could hit the Powerball.

habitat1

I will pick up an RX8 at about $500 over invoice here in the DC area and drive it down to Florida to exchange for a GX470 at anything under $2,000 over invoice. Mazda's giving away RX8's here and Lexus is getting near MSRP on the GX470. The opposite seems to be the case in Florida.

rotary_power

I know at least one dealer in Jersey will offer the RX-8 at dealer invoice for cars still in their lot. I got mine in PA for $300 over invoice. This is fine with me as they are the only dealership in the whole tri-state area that have the car with the exact list of options that I'm looking for :-)

topgun7

Anyone leased an RX8? what is the residual and money factor? Car_man mentioned that there is a 1500 lease cash that Mazda provide to dealer now. It make leasing an RX8 a more interesting proposition.

flatso

there are tons of RX-8's on the dealer's lots here in central NJ. Very tempting but I want to wait on the sidelines until they get the flooding and poor mileage issues fixed and I think I can even get a better deal in a month or two.

audia8q

In december, here in the northeast, the RX8 out sold the MPV, Pro5, b-series, MZ3 and only 9 units behind the protege! the Mild December we have had helped alot, Like most sports cars, the sales will be the strongest during the better weather.
the stronger the sales, the less chance you have of getting a great deal...
go in and buy during the biggest snow and ice storm of the year. That will get you a great deal.

qbrozen

What dealers are you seeing this at? I'm just curious because I have yet to see more than one at a time at the local dealership here in Freehold, NJ, and the one I see keeps changing color so I have to think that they keep selling them. But maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place.

flatso

East Coast Mazda on Rt 17 had about 65 and Crystal Auto Mall on 22 had about 45 and Open Road Madza on RT 1 had about 35. Most are the fully optioned ones in the upper $30's price range.

petea

Anyone out there been able to find a genuine Mazda Extended Protection Plan for the RX-8 at a discount? Most dealers won't discount the warranties, but when I bought my Honda Odyssey I found an Acura dealer that sold HondaCare warranties at slightly above cost. I saved about $250 on a 5yr/100K miles contract. Hopefully someone is aware of a dealer/website that handles Mazda warranties the same way.... Thanks.

carliker

flatso - I've never seen 65 of the same vehicle in one lot before. Is that a huge mega dealership?

petea - Extended warranties for a Mazda seem to be unnecessary, as they are for most vehicles. Is there a reason why you are interested in this?

petea

Your message got cut off, but I think you were trying to say Extended Warranties are unnecessary for Mazdas because they are very reliable cars.

The reason I am interested is because I had a Mercury Village that a head bolt broke off and ruined the engine after warranty, and most recently, the Odyssey Transmission went and was covered no questions asked with the HondaCare warranty( they might have covered this anyway since they are have numerous problems with the transissions in those vehicles). Any info would be helpful.

graphicguy

Mazdas have a reputation for building reliable cars. Plus, they have one of the best warranties in the biz (excepting Hyundai, Kia, and the like)...it is 48 mos/50K miles, bumper to bumper.

Personally, I always figured if something was going to go terribly wrong with any car, it would happen within the warranty period. In general, I keep all my cars to well past 100K miles and have yet to have anything major happen that would make the extended warranty cost worthwhile.

If you want peace of mind, there are those extended warranties you can buy from Mazda, or a 3rd party (like warranty gold). If you get a quote from a place like warranty gold and end up not buying one from them, be prepared to be inundated by their telemarketers/e-mail marketers who will try to sell one to you for about a month after you get their quote.

I have had F&I people at dealerships offer me discounts on extended warranties from the manufacturers, so you may want to negotiate with them....even after you've already bought your car.

The only extended warranties that have ever paid off for me has been on high end TVs (from Circuit City). They've actually replaced a 3 year old, $2,500 TV because it wouldn't stay "in spec". Warranty cost me something like $250.

qbrozen

Just don't tell that to those folks who owned the 4-cylinder 626 with the Ford automatic tranny that self destructed every 30K miles or so.

But, for the most part, they do have a fairly good rep (miatas and proteges being the main reason, I think).