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Acura TSX vs Acura TL

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Comments

  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,731
    Johnny owns a "gussied up European Accord." Which is a great car. I own a "gussied up USDM Accord." Which is a great car.

    Neither car is diminished, imho, one bit by it's relatives or shared underpinnings. Had either been "gussied up Cavaliers or Ions," well that would certainly be a different story...

    Why is it, and you see this in almost any thread you choose, that people feel that they must denigrate another person's choice in autos? Sure, you can explain why a certain car was not the best choice for you, but that in no way reflects the suitbility of that car for anybody else.

    Thanks, I truly enjoy yachting around in my Uber-Accord. And I haven't had a clue since I got married!

    Enjoy the Euro-Accord, great car!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    I agree with you 100%. That is why I decided to get a tsx-my own decision and I love it. Happy new year
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    Is there really any competition between a TL and a TSX (except for price)? Both FWDs based on the Accord, but the TL will flat out bury a TSX.

    If I wanted a high revving Japanese FWDer I'd go with the Mazdaspeed6 instead.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    test drove the mazdaspeed 6. was not impressed with the way it shifted. I think it is AWD.
  • I agree, I like the torque of the TL. And the new TL-S 3.5 Big time. You like the TSX, I like the TL-S. Have a great day. I won't until 6 p.m. Working today. :)
  • Bury it how? In a drag race? There's more to driving than straight lines.
  • The TL has lots more torque and hp, has better tires and sits lower, better brakes, better suspension, better handling, better seats..... yea... it'll bury the TSX....and it does.... and it should.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    it also costs more. i prefer higher,thank you and i am no longer into racing so the tsx is just great for me and what i want. I put 5,000 miles on it in one month-highwaydriving. Nothing wrong with the tsx. love it happy new year there is nothing wrong with the tl either if you like get it My tsx is milano red with ebony int-can not get it in a tl
  • TSX's handling, road feel and steering blows away the TL

    I'm a TL owner who's not interested in bashing the TSX and just want your honest response to my question on your comment, above:

    I think the TL handles great - I drove the TSX as a rental car for several days and thought it handled well, but not as well as the TL. Might be b/c the TL is wider and sits lower. Why do you feel otherwise? As for road feel, I thought they were very similar.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "lots more torque and hp"

    It has about 50 more HP and torque (significant, but not "lots"). Unfortunately, the TL needs much of that just to overcome the extra 350 lbs it carries.

    "has better tires"

    Nope. They both come standard with Michelin all-seasons.

    "sits lower"

    Put a 350 lb man in the passenger seat of the TSX, and it'll sag 0.3" closer to the ground too...

    "better brakes"

    Wrong. They both come standard with 11.8" ventilated front rotors.

    "better suspension"

    Wrong again. They both have the same suspension - double wishbone in front, multi-link in back.

    "better handling"

    Wrong. The TSX weighs less, has the same suspension and tires, and has better weight distribution. The TSX feels more nimble and lighter on it's feet compared to the TL, whose extra pounds result in more weight transfer during transitions. The TL takes a set more slowly, but feels more planted once settled.

    "better seats"

    I thought they both felt great, but I suppose that's personal preference. Whatever.

    The TL is George Foreman and the TSX is Sugar Ray Leonard. There is no winner or loser here - just personal taste.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Not real hard to go to the Acura website dispel your unprepared rebuttal to the meateater.

    TL has 53 more hp and 67 lbs/ft torque - which I would consider (and most others would too) a LOT more performance.

    Tires - no - they both don't come standard with AS Michelins. The base TL has 235/45 Bridgestones - the TSX has 215/50s. The TL was wider wheels too (8s vs. 7s in the TSX)

    Yea the TL does sit lower. Put your 350lb man in a TSX and it'll be even slower.

    Brakes? Recheck bro. The TL has bigger rear brakes.

    More multipoint links in the suspension. Better electronics too. And better looking.

    I don't think anyone is calling the TSX a loser, just that its nowhere near the car the TL is.

    Give me a V6 Accord over the TSX any day.
  • The TL does handle great - for its size. It just can't get past the fact that it weighs considerably more than the TSX. I like the TSX's quicker steering better also.

    Keep in mind that I run mine with the A-Spec suspension, which is some 10% stiffer than stock and drops the car ~1". The biggest limiter at this point is tires.

    The TL is a great car, especially in its new "S" form. I feel the TSX in its base form handles better and feels more nimble than the TL in its base form. IMO, the TL leans more towards the touring side of things, while the TSX leans more towards the sporting side, ala BMW 325i.

    See fedlawmans post - he makes the case better than I ever could.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Not real hard to go to the Acura website dispel your unprepared rebuttal to the meateater."

    Tell me what part of my rebuttal was "unprepared" and "dispelled" by the Acura website.

    The TL has approximately 50 HP more than the TSX. The website says 53. Yes, the TQ gap is wider - I apologize for missing 17 ft lbs.

    However, what good is peak power output if the car doesn't use it? According to Car and Driver Magazine road tests conducted in 2004, a 6-speed TL is only about 1.2 seconds quicker to 60 MPH and through the 1/4 mile than a 6-speed TSX (and the 2007 TSX is up about 12 HP from 2004, so the gap is likely smaller today). Sure, the TL is quicker, but not a "lot" quicker.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/7597/acura-tl.html
    http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/6742/2004-acura-tsx.html

    I suspect that weight, along with the TL's "Torque Steer Reduction System" are to blame. The system, which cannot be disengaged, reduces the TL's engine torque in 1st and 2nd gear "when torque steer is most likely to occur."

    "Tires - no - they both don't come standard with AS Michelins."

    As for tires, according to TL owner's I know, many TL's were equipped with Michelin all-season tires. I looked again at the Acura website for the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 and couldn't find a reference either way (maybe you can show me?). I don't know who can say that the Bridgestone Turanza EL42 is a better "all-season touring tire" than the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4, but, FWIW, I see that Tire Rack's survey has this Bridgestone rated 3rd from the bottom (26th place out of 28 tires).

    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=ST

    You are correct about the TL's wheels being 1" wider. Other than these wheels adding unsprung mass (additional suspension loading and slower transition response), what does this do for the TL's handling?

    "Yea the TL does sit lower."

    1/3rd of an inch less ground clearance does not necessarily mean the TL sits lower. I believe that the TL's larger V-6 block is taller than TSX's 4 cylinder mill, hence a loss of ground clearance. Show me where the TL has a "lower suspension."

    "Brakes? Recheck bro."

    Thanks, but I already knew about the TL's 1" larger rear brakes. Who cares about rear brakes? I've driven all manner of cars on the racetrack over the years (yes, that includes a TSX), and I've never had my REAR BRAKES fade. If you want to beef about brakes, you should beef about the fact that the 350# heavier (and nose heavier) TL has the SAME SIZE front brakes as the much lighter TSX!

    "More multipoint links in the suspension."

    You're going to have to help me out here. Where did you find this info and what advantage does it give the TL?

    "Better electronics"

    Are you talking about safety nannies I don't want/need, or DVD-Audio I can't enjoy in the noise-filled cockpit of a moving car?

    "Better looking too."

    Subjective.

    "I don't think anyone is calling the TSX a loser, just that its nowhere near the car the TL is."

    The TL is a fine, sporty, near-luxury sedan. It's fast, handles well, and is fun to drive. But compared to the TSX, the TL feels muted. It's softer, heavier, and less responsive. Many people are cross-shopping the TL and TSX, and choosing the TSX - and not necessarily because of price. The TSX, thanks to it's higher revving engine and lighter weight, simply offers a more dynamic, more exciting driving experience.

    The people on this board who defend the TSX do tend to get defensive, mostly because so many people (for 4 years) have taken issue with the 4 cylinder, European Accord roots. What the naysayers don't get is that, these are the very traits that make the TSX so unique and desireable as a sport sedan. Put the TL and S2000 in a bag and shake them up - the result is the TSX.
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    a 6-speed TL is only about 1.2 seconds quicker to 60 MPH

    1.2 seconds quicker to 60 mph is a HUGE difference.

    Face it - the TSX is slow compared to lots of similarly priced sedans out there. I'll bet the plan is to add a turbo real soon to fix this problem (ala BMW 3 series). Then we're talking about something special.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    quicker to get a speeding then
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "Don't get me wrong. I respect the TSX. I drove the TSX before buying a TL. The TSX seemed like a toy power-wise compared to the TL. With all the spirited options out there I couldn't see buying an underpowered car that I had to constantly red-line to get power."

    Believe it or not, I agree with you. In 2003 when the TSX first came out, it was comparable, power-wise, with the 325i, A4, etc. When I first drove it, I too was underwhelmed with it's lack of low-end TQ, but after 2 more test-drives, I was finally hooked on it's overall balance.

    I never intended to imply that the TL is a pig. The TL is a fantastic sedan with a very attractive mix of performance and luxury. When I say it's too heavy, know that I think the same of all modern cars. Weight is the enemy of performance, and the TL, along with the BMW 3-series, Infiniti G35, Audi A4, etc. is fast approaching 4000 lbs - that's SUV territory! The TL (and the rest of the class) carries it's weight very well, and for the most part, hides it's weight effectively, thanks to ever wider tires, ever more advanced suspensions, and ever growing HP. But there is a price to pay, and in my drives in the TL, I found it to be too soft. Sporty enough for 90% of the population, but not for me.

    As a daily driver, I admit the TL makes more sense, and is the more accessible car. It's got power, it's got moves, and it's comfortable. For the majority of drivers, the TSX is simply harder to love.

    I have fond memories of driving my TSX, especially at the track, but in stock form, I have no allusions about it's limitations and place in the marketplace today. Today, I drive a RWD, 250 HP, 4 cylinder, 2700# BMW. It has no electronics, no airbags, and I love it to death - and I have the TSX to thank for relighting the fire within me and steering me in that direction.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "1.2 seconds quicker to 60 mph is a HUGE difference."

    In my opinion, the added weight and cabin isolation of the TL mutes the experience compared to the TSX.

    The TL doesn't feel as fast as it really is. The TSX feels faster than it actually is. For me, it's not how quick you get there, it's the getting there that I live for.

    "the TSX is slow compared to lots of similarly priced sedans out there."

    I've got to disagree. It's slow compared to the new crop of entry-lux sedans, but while they have all left the TSX behind in performance, they have also gotten more expensive.

    Where does the TSX's performance fit in with other near-lux performance cars that cost under $30K (most TSX's sell for closer to $25K)? Actually, there are no other near-lux performance cars under $30K.

    "I'll bet the plan is to add a turbo real soon to fix this problem."

    Sadly, you're probably right. IMO, I think a turbo (a la RDX), with it's lower redline and lower compression, would detract from the zingy, playful character of the current TSX. My old Miata took almost 10 seconds to reach 60 MPH - and it was one of the most fun cars I have owned.
  • Weight is the enemy of performance, and the TL, along with the BMW 3-series, Infiniti G35, Audi A4, etc. is fast approaching 4000 lbs

    A TL weighs 3623 lbs. How is that 'fast approaching 4000 lbs " ? Even so the TL handles its weight marvelously. The car never feels heavy to me.

    I never understood the TSX appeal. I mean - a high red-liner is not that much 'fun' as a daily driver. My ex tired of her MR2 real quick. Today's V6s are such a better option now that they're getting 32+ mpgs hwy and don't have to rev to 6000 rpms to hit the powerband. The TSX is screaming at those revs.

    The TSX is a good looking car tho.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Posts: 3,118
    "A TL weighs 3623 lbs. How is that 'fast approaching 4000 lbs?"

    Cars in general are growing larger and heavier every generation.

    The current TL weighs more than the RL of 10 years ago. The current RL weighs 4000#.

    The 2007 TL also weighs more than the Infiniti G35, BMW 3-series, and Lexus IS350 - cars that all weigh too much themselves.

    Small luxury performance sedans, like all cars in general, are growing bigger, heavier, and more powerful. So much so that cars that used to occupy the bottom of a segment are being replaced by new models.

    Consider my old 1979 Honda Civic. It had a 1500# curb weight and was basic transportation for 4 people. Today, the Civic weighs 2800#, and by comparison, is a midsize luxury performance car. No longer the entry-level, the Civic has been replaced by the Fit, which in it's most basic form, is the spiritual successor to the Civic of old.

    But Honda's not alone. The E90 BMW 3-series is basically the same size and weight of the E39 (last generation) 5-series - and unlike Honda, BMW doesn't have a smaller sedan (in the US) to replace the 3 as "entry-level." At least Honda has the TSX.

    This discussion is similar to a group of Honda S2000 owners talking to a group of Corvette owners. The Corvette owners don't understand the appeal of a 4 cylinder car with skinny tires and no low-end torque. Why should they? They have 400 HP and 35 series tires mounted on 19" wheels. They are faster in a straight line and faster around corners. The Corvette is clearly "more car" than the little S2000.

    Even if the Corvette cost half the price of the S2000, I'd still pick the little Honda every time - and many enthusiasts would do the same.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    It is amazing that honda/acura did not get a vehicle with turbo years ago. We have owned numerous turbo vehicles-from the 80's on mercedes,volvo, mitsubishi, mazda and a eagle.
  • johnny420johnny420 Posts: 473
    I never understood the TSX appeal. I mean - a high red-liner is not that much 'fun' as a daily driver. My ex tired of her MR2 real quick. Today's V6s are such a better option now that they're getting 32+ mpgs hwy and don't have to rev to 6000 rpms to hit the powerband. The TSX is screaming at those revs.

    This is misleading. You're making the TSX out to have S2000 or RX8 like qualities, as if all its power is made up high. The TSX does rev nicely, but it is also very useable for day to day driving. 166lb ft of torque is plenty for daily driving. The torque curve is flat and linear all the way up to redline. The car does very well around town. I have 21,000 miles of seat time in the car to prove it.

    As of today, I've owned this car for three years, and not once have I ever felt like it was not useable for day to day driving. You do not have to 'high redline" the car to make use of its power. That's just not the case.

    It's remarkable to me, but I've heard over and over that the TSX is "underpowered" (usually from people who do not own the car) yet I keep having run-ins with Johnny Law because I'm driving too damn fast.

    If this is underpowered, I definitely do not need more power.

    I never understood the TSX appeal.

    This statement is revealing. People who don't own the car don't get it. People who do own it do get it. That should speak to you in and of itself. The TSX has a very enthusiastic following.

    :shades:
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    I never understood the TSX appeal.

    I don't either. A V6 Accord sounds much better to me.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    I have a tsx and love it. It is the matter of personal likes. The tsx works for me even if is not a v6- or 8. I do mostly highway driving with no problems. I personally like the looks of the tsx over the accord.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    I bought a tl in 05 and love it. But the more I see the tsx on the road I have become to really like it's look. :shades:
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,731
    I equate the TSX with the previous gen TL in the looks department: handsome, but generic. The new TL, to me, is just a very handsome car from almost any angle. Both inside and out.

    FriscoNick: Remember me? You were going to adopt me and buy me oh so many wonderful cars... ;)

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • I'm in the process of getting a new car and I am considering both the TSX and the TL. Unfortunately, there is no Acura dealer close by so I haven't taken either one for a test drive yet.

    I am 6'4", so legroom/driver comfort is a BIG deal for me. From what I hear, the TL is good for taller people, but I haven't heard anything about the TSX yet. Are there any tall TSX drivers out there that can chime in.

    I currently don't have any kids, but would like to get a car that could comfortable accomodate a child and stroller in the future.

    Lastly, I'm probably looking to buy a car that's 1-3 years old. Any thoughts on specific years that is better than another. For ex, 06 is much preferred over 05 for some reason, etc.

    Thanks.
  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Yes I remember you!!! How are you ;)

    I agree, but I appreciated the TSX more than I did n the past.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Posts: 2,731
    All's well. Hopefully for you, too.

    Happy New Year!

    '13 Jaguar XF, '11 BMW 535xi, '02 Lexus RX300

  • frisconickfrisconick Posts: 1,275
    Everythings great!

    Happy New Year!
  • starman98starman98 Posts: 119
    A TSX is faster than a Lexus IS250
This discussion has been closed.