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Ford Mustang (2005 and Newer)

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Comments

  • NSORICNSORIC Member Posts: 33
    Did someone say '89 LX 5.0 in a "Bang For The Buck" Competition? If you wanna see how it turned out, go to...

    http://www.stangbangers.com/89_LX5-0_vs_Competition.htm
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    I remember that article like it was yesterday. What I don't remember was the cost of the 20th Anniversary TransAm. Oh my!! That thing cost $30,000 in 1989 dollars. That's about $63,000 in 2003 dollars. Yikes.
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    Like I said, sleeper cars are the way to go.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    The LX 5.0 was a popular car, don't know why they didn't keep that combo for the 94+ cars.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    I think Ford briefly did through 1996 (not sure about the date though). It was called the "GTS" model; basically base trim with the V8 and other performance goodies. Cool stuff.

    NSORIC, that's a great article; I'd never seen it. My comments on the Mustang were purely my guess... : )
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    Oh, yeah, the GT-S was a low production run, should have called it LX.
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    Just imagine the base Mustang with the mach l equipment. No scoops, no wings, no tape stripes. Jeez, I would buy one of those and the cops would look through that car, but never notice it. Would'nt that be a great thing for Ford to do with the new 2005's. They would sell everyone they could mfg.
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    Has anyone heard which V6 the '05 Mustang will have?

    An early MT article said that it might be the 4.0 from the Explorer if emission requirements could be met, but I've also heard that it might be a version of the Duratec30. Since the '05 Mustang will be built at the same facility as the Mazda 6, it could be the 3.0 VVT, which is both good (decent hp) and bad (not much torque).

    I'd rather have the 240+ ft/lb torque from the 4.0 and give up the extra 10 hp. The 3.0 VVT doesn't get that great of mileage anyway, and a non-VVT Duratec30 would be totally uninspiring.
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    Ford could drop the 205hp/265lbs-ft 4.2 liter V6 from the Freestar in the new Mustang. It sounds like rock tumbler and doesn't rev much past 5000rpm, but it has a glorious torque curve. In fact, those numbers are very close to the first 4.6 modular V8 equipped Mustangs.

    It would likely provide decent performance with an automatic, while the 3.0 liter would struggle to get the car moving from a stand still.
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    is an oxymoron, and an oxymoron is not an acne preperation for an idiot. Why would anyone except a secretary want a 6 cyl. stang????? Begin screaming now.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    'Cause without a V6 mustang, there would not be *any* Mustangs at all...check out the sales figures to see why.
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    Right on.

    The V6 Mustang butters Ford's bread. Without the V6 edition Ford would not be able to offer the Cobra and Mach 1 models. Plus, its not as if a 4.2 liter V6 Mustang with a five speed would be a worthless slug. It may actually be kind of entertaining.
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    Why would anyone besides a secretary want a V6 Mustang? Lower purchase price and insurance costs are a couple reasons.

    The fact that Mustang V6 sales demographics do not include a larger percentage of car enthusiasts is no ones fault but Fords. Compared to other affordable V6 cars with manual transmissions (Altima and Mazda 6), the current generation Mustang looks pretty lame. RWD is about the only thing is has going for it. Hopefully the '05 will be a more attractive alternative.

    I haven't seen the numbers for a while, but the V6 Mustang outsells the GT by about 2:1 most months.
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    I agree, they sell a lot of the 6 cyls, and just because it is cheap does not make it good. My insurance does not change no matter what car I buy, except for the price differential. It seems to me that a 6 cyl stang is the worst of all worlds. Bad build quality and no power. At least the V8's run good enough to make the car worth while. I hope that Ford does in fact improve the V6 iteration, but so far, the only thing the V6 does is make noise. Remember the really bad 4 cyls they made years ago?? The only thing it was good for was to make Honda buyers feel good about their purchase. Forget non-performance Mustangs, IMHO, it gives the car a bad name, and rice rocket drivers only laugh when they beat the devil out of you.
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    For anyone who is interested, BlueOvalNews.com has some pictures of the new 3V 4.6V8 that will be used in the new Mustang GT.

    Unlike a lot of Ford engines, this one actually looks nice.
  • fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    Boy I sure would like your insurance company! Interesting way they figure out how much to charge for cars!

    Your comments on the 6 are obviously based on absolutely no knowledge. The car is great with lots of power and good reliability.

    Oh...and all Mustangs should be red convertibles with black tops and dark grey interiors. Black closed Mustangs only give the red open ones a bad name! Also, people who drive without the air conditioning on are stupid!

    HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE PHRASE DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS??? Enjoy your car and leave ours alone!

    Why is yours good only because mine is bad?????
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    I can certainly understand your feelings about Mustang quality (I share them), but you owe it to yourself to give a V6 Mustang a drive. You'll like it more than you think!

    The power (193hp) is not weak by any normal scale. In fact, this is similar hp to what was offered by previous GT models. With a manual, the V6 is a blast to drive and is quite peppy. And it's very easy to have tail-out fun with it.

    Edmunds.com did a review of it, and it really surprised the reviewers. They enjoyed it a lot, and while it's not a tire-churning musclecar, it *is* a great pony car value that captures the proper Mustang feel.

    I have a GT and love it, but the V6 Mustangs are no slouches (1999+ that is). They are true Mustangs (there have been V6 Mustangs from the beginning), and offer amazing bang-for-the-buck performance.

    Check one out if you can...you just might be converted.

    Fdthird, man are you confused: everyone knows that true blue is the ONLY color for Mustangs (if you're cool that is...) ; )
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    Mustangs with base engines have been the backbone of the line since 1964. I am still amazed at people who make comments like "all Mustangs should have HiPo engines". They know nothing about the real car business.

    If it were not for the "plain Stangs", there would not be a good business case to build the Mach 1's, Cobras, GT's, and Bosses.
  • carjimcarjim Member Posts: 155
    Are some of the V6 engines a different design than others? The reason I ask is, my daughter had an opportunity to buy a '00 Mustang 3.8 from a college classmate. When she pressed the pedal, the engine roared but no response. She chose to keep her '94 Altima which has a lot more kick. I asked my mechanic about this. He referred to the Mustang V6 engine as a "gutless wonder." Will the 2005 have a quieter, better engine?
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    Those 3.8's have more horsepower than the 1975-81 302 V8's did.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    The 3.8 has been pretty much the same since 1999. Earlier models were kinda underpowered (to the tune of 150 hp). But in 1999, they really took off...

    By way of comparison a 1994 Altima has a 2.4 inline 4 that puts out around 150 hp; a 2000 base Mustang puts out 193. The Altima weighs 100 some pounds less though. But the big difference is the torque: 154 in the Altima vs. 220 in the Mustang.

    There are other variables of course, but in all fairness, the 3.8 engine is hardly a "gutless wonder"; it's actually pretty good (in the 1999+ incarnation). Your mechanic was probably refering to the previous 3.8...
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    Even Consumer Reports, a magazine not impressed with hot rods, said that the V6 Mustang's engine makes more noise than power, and is not in keeping with a sporty car. I know you guys who bought V6 Mustangs do not want to hear that, but the truth is that they (V6's) are not very good at resale time, because only price sells the 6,s, and the V8's sell for a LOT more used. Also, the idea that if there were no V6's, there would be no V8's is silly on the face of it. Ford is in the business of selling cars, and will sell anything that makes money. They can sell a lot more V6's because they cost less, not because they are better. In the first place, a 90 degree V6 is only a V8 with two cylinders removed, and this makes the engine vibrate. Ask any engineer if a 90 degree V6 is good engineering. It is cheap to make and people who should consider a good bicycle will be able to buy them. If they are so good, why are the V6 cars speed limited to 106MPH. This is a performance car?????
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    "Also, the idea that if there were no V6's, there would be no V8's is silly on the face of it."

    Not really. In a nutshell, Ford's sales success with the V6 Mustangs make its costs for the Mustang line manageable. There simply aren't enough V8 Mustangs sold to make building them alone profitable. So without the V6 models, Ford probably would cease production of Mustangs entirely (say instead use the factory to build Ranger pickups), or else raise the prices dramatically (which would further hurt sales). End result: no Mustang as we know it.

    Even the hallowed Cobra utilizes many "regular" Mustang-line parts.

    It's not an issue of engineering, but rather one of economics.
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    Yes I have driven an 03 3.8 V6 Mustang with auto trans. My wifes Honda Accord Coupe beats the devil out of the 6 cyl Mustang in every performance perameter I can think of. Her LX V6 coupe cost less than the MUstang I drove. A V6 engine should have 60 degree bank for smoothness and high revs, not the 90 degree bank old V6 used in the current Mustang. Now if Ford were to modernize the V6 to a 60 degree DOHC 24 valve V6, that would be something different, and would probably be worthwhile to save some cash ov er the V8, but in the final analysis, the V8 is the superior engine, especially in the DOHC 32 valve iteration. There are no two ways about it, the old style V6 in the current Mustang is a boat anchor, and no matter what excuses are offered for its existance, it still does not belong in a performance car.
  • corsicachevycorsicachevy Member Posts: 316
    Snakerbill - the base Mustang is not, and never will be, a performance car. It all but defines the term "style over substance".

    I still contend that Ford could drop a 205-210hp version of the Freestar/Monterey 4.2 liter V6 (yes, it is a 90 degree unit) in the new Mustang to create a decent base model. Like I stated earlier, the output numbers on this engine are very similar to those of the original 4.6 liter V8 that appeared in Mustang GTs not too long ago. Combine that engine with a slick shifting five speed stick or five speed automatic and Ford would have a moderately entertaining car without having to invest a tremendous amount of R&D.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    I think a good way to view the V6 Mustangs is as fulfilling the original vision of the "ponycar": a sporty, stylish coupe that offers decent real-world performance and a low price tag.

    And I think "real-world" is a significant modifier. The V6 Mustang does 0-60 in about 7.5 seconds; that's plenty fast for most people and their usual driving situations.

    Sure you won't be setting records at your local dragstrip, but it's enough to be fun. Combined with the rwd, you have the recipe for some fun, everyday driving: burnouts, powerslides and all the other "Starsky and Hutch" stuff we all love... : )
  • NSORICNSORIC Member Posts: 33
    http://www.stangbangers.com/99GT_vs_CamaroZ28_Article1.htm
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Nice!

    I usually add a few 10ths of a second to magazine times to compensate for "average driver" ability (or lack thereof) : )

    But I think that article bolsters my claim: V6 Mustangs are by no means dull cars. They are quite entertaining, and while they may not have raucous V8 power, they're still worthy of the Mustang name.

    I've been seeing base Mustang coupes for around $15K right now...that's downright cheap for what you get.
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    I agree, but no, repeat, NO 90 degree 3.8. That engine is an insult to Mustangs in general.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    I do feel that the Mustang should have more sophisticated powerplants in every trim. The truth of the matter is that the Mustang IS Ford's performance platform. This is supposed to be their show of their mass production technologies. This is supposed to be the Cool Car of the Ford lineup, aside from the GT that is.

    If the flag-bearer of the Ford lineup has a second-rate (or third-rate) V6 in it at this point, then something's wrong.
  • carjimcarjim Member Posts: 155
    I agree with shpinx99 that Ford has not given the Mustang sohisticated powerplants or updated platforms. In fact, I don't trust Ford in regards to the Mustang. Some of my recalls are fuzzy, but at one time or other Ford re-badged the Pinto as a Mustang (II). Ford planned to badge the front-wheel drive Probe as a Mustang, and had it not been for a devoted group within Ford, planned to discontinue it altogether. Yet Mustang survived.
    I cannot fathom such bungling stupidity. Many of you will know the specifics of those events and can elaborate accurately.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    As has been said before, Economics plays a very large part in the manufacturing/design choices for automobiles. It's not all about engineering.

    Yes, the 3.8 is not the best, most high-tech engine. But it's hardly "an insult to Mustangs". It does the job just fine in terms of performance for those who buy it (and they do buy ALOT of them), and it is inexpensive to produce (esp. given how long it's been around). For a car company, that combination is a winner.

    As for a historical point, the Mustang II (1974-1978) was indeed a low point for the Mustang line. Yes, it was built on the Pinto platform, and eventually sported the most anemic 302 ever offered in a Mustang. : (

    But as the ads said then "it was the right car at the right time." It sold like gangbusters, while the 1973 (still a "proper" Mustang as purists would say) sat like a rock on the market. I'd say that Iaccoca was quite shrewd with the II. The Mustang survived BECAUSE of the II, not in spite of it.

    The Mustang II is unloved now, but if it weren't for it carrying the ponycar torch in some tough times, the current Mustang would probably BE a re-badged, fwd Probe. And none of us want that.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Forgot to add that it wasn't a group within Ford that fought against the "Probe-ization" of the Mustang. It was actually many, many angry letters from consumers...

    Every now and again, car companies *do* listen to us. : )
  • fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    The Mustang is one of the few cars in the US that has an active and very vocal following. Were it not for the Mustang hobbyists not only speaking their mind but also putting their money where their mouth is, we would have a very different Mustang today (or none at all).

    People who love and coddle a classic Mustang will often have a newer Mustang as a daily driver. The support is great, but if the cars didn't sell, we'd be talking about it just like the Camaro folks are!
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Or like the way-cool but sadly defunct Chrysler muscle cars. They perhaps best personified the musclecar age (who doesn't think the Plymouth Hemi Barracuda is one of the coolest cars ever?), but were the first to go...

    The Mustang has seen some bad times, but it's always been there. Fortunately, I think we're about to really hit a high period (that has been building since 1994) with the 2005 Mustang. Esp. given that Carol Shelby is supposed to return to the Mustang fold.
  • btate2002btate2002 Member Posts: 64
    Hey, if you look on the net, there are some pics of the production cars from a few of the February magazines out there. This car is HOT!
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    Where on the net can I find those pictures you mentioned?? I would like to see them.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    If the 3.8 is an 'insult', then what are the old I6, I4, and 139HP 70's V8 Stangs?
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    How about awfull, horrible, nasty, gutless, junky etc etc.
  • snakerbillsnakerbill Member Posts: 272
    The studio would not let Starsky and Hutch drive that Torino over 35MPH. About right for a 6 cyl Mustang. :)
  • newbuyer31newbuyer31 Member Posts: 31
    Snaker, what Mustang do you have? The cobra?
    Based upon your comments I just might have to trade in my V6 Mustang on something else and leave Ford behind since it is so terrible. I would have liked for you to see my prevoius posts but the host removed them and sent me a nastygram, because I should not have told you the facts apparently. Sorry, host please don't be angry with me again, just stating my opinion. This time you can see that my "tone" is not "offensive" just stating the obvious. In conclusion, Snaker I only just want to know, after the V6 Mustangs stop selling which will END production of the Mustang altogether, what line of vehicle will you drive next????? Just curious is all. What is your second pick? AND, I apologize in advance if anyone was offended just talking about cars that is all. Thanks for listening.
  • newbuyer31newbuyer31 Member Posts: 31
    Also, I would like to ask the question, if anyone has knowledge on this subject. I have never owned a Camaro before. Does anyone know how it compares to the Mustang? I will ask the same question in the Chevy board if need be to get a fair opinion. Should I trade my Mustang in on it or are they pretty much the same? Thanks.
  • ksuwildcat001ksuwildcat001 Member Posts: 97
    Well, for one thing you can't get a new Camero.
  • newbuyer31newbuyer31 Member Posts: 31
    WHY???? Can't I get a new Camaro? What does that mean, sorry?
  • newbuyer31newbuyer31 Member Posts: 31
    I just mean is Camaro not producing any new autos now? I am not as up on the car topic as the people in here, I really don't know. But I could look at a used one maybe.
  • fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    Lesson #1 - Do not ask people on the Mustang board if a Camaro is better than a Mustang. That only opens up the same discussion that has been happening in one form or another since 1967!

    Lesson #2 - Customers and GM do not love the Camaro the same way Ford folks love and support the Mustang...GM does not, at this time, make a Camaro.

    Lesson #3 - They are called Pony Cars because the Mustang was the first out of the box in April, 1964. Looks like it will be the last of the species too!
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Ah the classic ponycar debate...this is always fun (though not as much fun as watching the diehards on stangnet go on about this).

    I personally feel the Mustang is a better all-around car than the Camaro (hence why I bought one), but that's not to say that the Camaro doesn't have some very good qualities. It all depends what you value in your ponycar, and what level (V6 or V8) you're considering.

    At the V6 level, the Mustang is probably the better car. It's a little faster than the Chevy, handles better and overall has more poise. Of course, if Camaro styling is your cup of tea, that'll make the difference.

    At the V8 level, things aren't so simple. The Camaro enjoys a significant power advantage over the Mustang. And you really feel it; Camaros have NHRA-like acceleration. Handling is probably equal, though I personally think the Mustang feels more nimble. A lot of people rightly feel that you get more performance bang for your buck with the Camaro.

    But you consider attributes other than peformance, the Camaro has some pretty irritating flaws. The interior is straight out of the 1980s, build quality is worse than the Mustangs' (!), it's a deathtrap (extremely high real-world accident death rates), and the manual 1-4 shift "feature" ranks up there as one of the dumbest GM ideas since the Cadillac Cimeron.
  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    ...As someone who has nearly "Starsky-ed" himself into a ditch in V6 rent-a-Mustangs more than once, the 6ers have plenty of gusto for that kind of stuff! Rent one and give it a try; you'll love it - and it'll remind you why to NEVER buy a used Mustang from a car rental company! ; )
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,930
    Just wanted to say that was probably the fairest assessment I've ever heard from a Mustang owner. I won't say whether I agree or not. But well done.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • john_324john_324 Member Posts: 974
    Thanks. I'll tell you, as much as I love my Mustang, there are times when I sorta wished I'd gotten the Z28. There's a sort of musclecar purity in the Camaro (maybe even because of the flaws). I hope they come back soon (no competition is not good for the Mustang).

    I'm really just a ponycar fan who happens to own a Mustang. If Chrylser made a Barracuda (with the new Hemi of course), I'd be driving one of those.

    Those ads for the new Durango (with the yuppies proclaiming "it's got a Hemi") really irritate me; put that engine in a vehicle that doesn't weigh nearly 5000 lbs and lacks the suburbanite gadgetry - now that would be something to behold.
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