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oil consumption

juriasjurias Posts: 9
edited March 23 in Volkswagen
i have a 01 jetta w/29000 miles per dealer its normal for the car to consume 1 quart of oil per 1000 miles has any one had that problem
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Comments

  • desi501desi501 Posts: 66
    Yes, that would be excessive to me but I know the dealer work under different standards in respect to oil consumption. It's not normal but doesn't meet their criteria for being a defect. are you sure your not leaking any of it? I think I remember stories about those things using a lot of oil sometimes. Good reason not to own a VW.
  • rc7762rc7762 Posts: 35
    Your dealer sounds like he is crazy!! A bit excessive? If that is the case why would you ever have to change the oil? It would be gone every 3500 miles. If it were me I would do more research and have my car looked at by someone other than your dealer. If your car is supposed to consume that much oil my advise would be to start drafting a good classified ad in your local paper. I had a used 82 Mazda that consumed just about that much oil, and after I had it diagnosed I was told the engine seals were shot and basically I needed a whole new motor, that car was history shortly there after. I had a 97 Jetta GT with just about every problem you could have with a car and it only had 70,000 miles but it did not consume oil, I traded it before I put another 500 miles on it and before I went bankrupt.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,529
    You can drive a car that consumes oil a long, long time but a quart every 1,000 sounds very borderline for a car this new with only 29K on it.

    Not saying you are facing a disaster, but definitely something internally worn there. If it were a quart every 2,500, I could swallow that as "normal" (that is, the lower end of normal in the natural range of a variety of engines), but 1K miles to burn a quart seems excessive.

    I'd suggest a cylinder leakdown test and then you might have some data to make a judgment about it.

    MODERATOR

  • If you have a 2.0 Engine in your car, then I believe there were a series of bad piston rings in your engine series. Remember that 2001 VW models have a 10y/100k mile powertrain warranty unless you are not the original owner and it drops to 5y60k miles.
    I would hammer the dealer service manager and push the issue for ring R + R following an oil consumption test...
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    I agree with balticjetta. This is a known defect in the 2.0 engines and the dealer should be aware of this. Press the dealer to do a oil consumption test. Do not give up until you get resolution. If need be, go to another dealer. I have heard that bad piston rings are the cause of the oil consumption. I have a '02 Jetta with the 2.0 engine and have experienced 0 oil consumption issues. So, since its the exact same engine, there is an obvious defect in the early 2.0 engines. Don't let the dealer push you around.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    While it's VERY true that the 2.0, 1.8 and 1.8T engines have major oil use issues, I've been to 29 arbitrations for this issue - VW won ALL of them.

    VW's standard for oil consumption is 1 quart per 1,000 miles (acceptable). If it drops down to 500-750 miles, they'll re-ring, rebuild or replace the engine.

    Bear in mind - the company that manufactures the project has the right to set the warranty standards and specifications, whether we like it or not, or whether our Chevy or Honda uses much less oil.

    Talk with your service manager and MAYBE the repairs will be performed, but they don't have to do anything, according to the law, until their own standards are broken.
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    I stand corrected. Though I have heard some Dealers fixing this problem. VW stating that a car can burn 1Qt per 1000 miles and be normal is embarassing.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    dealers have been doing some repairs, and a quart per thousand is a lot of oil.
  • juriasjurias Posts: 9
    its a 2.0 ltr i took it to the dealer they did the consumption test it cost me $45 dlrs when the 1000 miles were up i took it back to the dlr the oil was in the middle between the min and max what i noticed whn i got the car back from the dlr after they did the oil change was tht the oil level was higher than the max line but the service guy said its at normal level..i clld another dealer and they said its normal but if i wanted i could take it for another consuption test and i cannt afford to take it to every dealer and keep paying $45..should i call volkswagen.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,529
    this is why I was suggesting a cylinder leakdown test at your own expense. Then you have "quantitative data" to show them, and you are approaching your case with a second attack. Not only are you relying on oil consumption data (a rather vague measuring stick when you get down to it---too many hands in the testing, too many ways to make an error), but also on a % of leakdown, which is pretty solid data.

    I don't know if Zeus saw any cylinder leakdown evidence in the arbitrations that failed, maybe he could tell you that.

    There is actually precedent for the 1,000 mile/quart threshold being called "normal". Of course it is a reasonable argument to state "well, then, let them put that on the window sticker". The counter argument to that is "warranty information is available to every purchaser prior to purchase".

    Personally, I wouldn't much care about this level of consumption as long as 1) the car ran well, 2) it didn't smoke, and 3) it passed smog with no problem. Otherwise, being encouraged to open the hood every 3rd fillup is actually beneficial to car and owner, ironically.

    MODERATOR

  • desi501desi501 Posts: 66
    I think the standards that dealers set as what point they consider it defective are ridiculous but unfortunately I doubt you can fight them. The best weapon you have against them is spreading your dissatisfaction around to all their future customers. Don't say anything that is untrue, just declare it is unfair. Reputation is what dealer thrive on so take it away from them. You can cancel out millions of their advertising dollars if you work at it.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    hold on a minute:

    "I think the standards that dealers set as what point they consider it defective are ridiculous but unfortunately I doubt you can fight them"

    Dealers DO NOT manufacture cars. They DO NOT set warranty standards. Manufacturers do this and are the only entities responsible for warranties by federal law.

    Starting a fight with the dealer or dogging the dealer just makes your car get fixed later. Don't blame a dealership for abiding by the manufacturer's standards - they could start fixing things on their own, but they'd be covering the bill, and they'd soon go out of business with no reimbursement from the manufacturer - they have to follow the manufacturer's rules.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,529
    Yes, the oil consumption limits should be actual published data issued by the factory. Most factory manuals have this data in them.

    Of course, it's always good to check that the dealer is quoting the factory correctly.

    Generally, if the dealer is tellling you this, it is because the factory will not pay the dealer to replace an engine that is still within consumption limits. The dealer is not going to do any warranty work that will get kicked back to him.

    MODERATOR

  • YEAH, OK, THE MANUFACTURER HAS CERTAIN STANDARDS FOR OIL BURNING. THE DEALER HAS TO KNOW THEY WILL BE PAID TO DO THE WARRANTY WORK. SURE THEY DO NOT WANT TO BREAK OPEN YOUR ENGINE FOR NO REVENUE.
    YOU ARE STILL THE CUSTOMER AND HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO TRY TO GET SATISFACTION.
    WE ALL HAVE HEARD THE STATEMENT HOW SOME ENGINES VIRTUALLY DON'T BURN ANY OIL. IT IS ONE OF A HAPPY PERSON REGARDING THE MOTOR. HECK, MY BRIGGS AND STRATTON OHV ENGINE ON MY YARDMAN DOESN'T BURN ANY CASTROL SAE 30. I ONLY CHECK IT EVERY THREE MOWS AND IT NEVER CHANGES. THAT IS RELIABILITY.
    BOTTOM LINE, CALL VW OF AMERICA AND TELL THEM YOUR CONCERNS AND THAT YOU ARE NOT HAPPY. SEE WHAT THEY DO. IT IS YOUR RIGHT.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    YOUR CAPS LOCK OFF!!
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    You're right, dealers do not manufature cars. But, the way they handle the problem will either make the customer happy and assure future sales or make them mad and dissuade them from future VW sales.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    I was arguing where someone said the dealer set the policy on oil consumption.

    I love VW products - I've owned 8 so far, including 2 Bugs when I was stationed in Greece. I really like the Jettas and Golfs, but after being a lemon law investigator, I'd never own on with the 1.8, 1.8T or 2.0.

    The VR6, on the other hand....
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    What issues, other than oil consumption, do you see with the 2.0? Gladly, mine has been flawless in over 21,000 miles.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    except a few engine management problems (coils and injectors) that plague the whole line of engines.

    With Jettas, Golfs and Beetles, it's usually electrical and automatic transmission problems and/or oil consumption.
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    I guess I will keep my fingers crossed.
  • juriasjurias Posts: 9
    my 2.0l when i first bought w/18,000 on 1/03 it was fine after two weeks the tranny when it was to shift from 2nd to 3rd gear it would bang and the power mph would decrease but just for about 5 sec then it wld work fine the rest of the gears but it would not do it consecutive times. i took it to the dealer they said the tranny was at specs they sd tht they reset the tranny and i took it back home it one or two weeks later it did it again i told them again and they sd tht they did another diagnostic and it was fine what was odd was that i put an aftermarket stereo and i had to put the original before they could check the tranny. anyways now the car doesnt do it anymore
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,529
    I don't think one can make a correlation between oil consumption and reliability. It may or may not be indicative of something worth worrying about. It's really a matter of degreee and frequency, but "burning oil" is, in itself, not a disease. It's a characteristic that some cars have and some don't.

    Some engineers will purposely allow a bit of oil burning and I think that's a good thing, especially in very high performance cars.

    In the case of VW, we do have a record of some problems in this area, and I have to admit that if indeed we are consuming a quart of oil every 1K miles, on a low mileage car, this is disappointing.

    But even that does not point to a forthcoming disaster.

    Next step is to determine cause, and then remedy and who pays for it.

    MODERATOR

  • desi501desi501 Posts: 66
    Dealers DO NOT manufacture cars. They DO NOT set warranty standards. Manufacturers do this and are the only entities responsible for warranties by federal law.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    It was just a figure of speech. I'm fully aware who sets the warranty policy. It was merely a generality referring to the manufacturer (or it's representative in this case). I refer to dealer as opposed to independent shop. Bottom line "Volkswagon" can do what ever they choose as far a policy limits and there's not much you can do about it except "make noise". Someone needs to start a "class action" suit with the number of these defective vehicles out there.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    the attorneys will make more by doing one case at a time, trust me.

    I don't need to calm down, just after spending several years in the car business, I try to "nip in the bud" any talk that would make a consumer go beat up someone at his dealership because "the dealer said" his car didn't meet a standard for repairs.
  • rc7762rc7762 Posts: 35
    I could not agree with you more about hassling the dealer but what is the answer? How does one go about getting the information and more importantly the specs from the manufacturer that warrants the engine consuming this amount of oil?

    In my opinon no engine from any manufacture American or foreign should ever consume this amount of oil and I certainly don't buy into the fact that this is "Fine German engineering" I'm sorry but thats a load of crap. I feel that if VW or any car manufacture for that matter claims that this amount of oil consumption is "normal" they are covering up for a major defect or a major design flaw.

    If this type of oil consumption was posted on the window sticker and/or in the brochure in the dealer show room I think most people would seriously think twice before purchasing the automobile. I had a Mazda 626 that consumed oil and even though I loved driving the car I hated the fact that every time I got behind the wheel I had to wonder if there was enough oil in the engine.

    I think it would be very helpful for consumers to get this type of information when doing their car research, since you have experience in the car buisness is there any information that you could provide?

    Thanks,
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    a quart every 1,000 miles is ridiculous. It is because of this that I didn't buy a GTI, which I really wanted.

    I don't know what the answer is - other than a public ad campaign, it seems there's no way to have VW correct the oil consumption issue.
  • I am on my 3rd VW. 82 Rabbit L with a 1.7L FI, an 85 GTI Golf with a 1.8L FI, and now an 01 Jetta with a 1.8T; all cars with manual trannies. None of these cars burnt any more than 1/2 a quart in an avg. of 5k between oil/filter changes even under heavy loads, hot weather or bad winter conditions.
    I have had leases on 3 Mercury's and a Ford P/u in between the VW's for business and with Vulcan and Duratec V6's, 4cyl Zetec, and a Triton V8. All of these various motors burnt just maybe a full quart ONLY on engine breakin by 3k-5kmiles. Then it was virtually nothing from then on.
    1qt per 1k is not acceptable.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    in fact, I see many more cases involving the 1.8 and 1.8T than the 2.0.
  • I bought a new Jetta and have followed the dealer's instructions meticulously as to break-in period and first oil change at 5,000 mi. Ever since then it has used about 1 qt. in 1000 miles. In all previous cars, including new, used, VW, Ford, GM, Chrysler products I never had any oil problems. Having read your posted reports on this subject I just want to confirm that there is indeed a problem out there. How about it VW? I love the car otherwise but don't think I should be checking oil more than gas! VW of America suggests an oil consumption test which I will have done but I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling about this. Any suggestions out there?
  • fish8fish8 Posts: 2,282
    Complete the oil consumption test from the dealer and cross your fingers that they agree to repair your car if something is found. Good Luck
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