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2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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Comments

  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    Thank you for your description of your problem. In one of the articles about the hesitation problem, it was noted that NHTSA was considering opening an investigation. There was a hotline number listed for reporting the problem: 1-888-327-4236. You may want to call in addition to placing your written complaint.
  • star51star51 Posts: 17
    Motown, not to prolong this debate, but it doesn't seem as if anyone is "fixated on one lonely review". Rather, the hesitation problem would appear to be a topic of great concern to a sizeable number of people who have posted about it in this forum. Just do a Search on "hesitation" and you'll get the idea. Then you have to think about the untold number of Avalon owners who have not posted about the problem on this forum because they don't even know the forum exists, in fact, may not even know that the Edmunds website exists.

    I think that sticking one's head in the sand and being in a state of denial about the problem (on an otherwise fine car) is simply not accepting reality.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    I have no intention of prolonging this debate. I just wanted to set the fact straight. The fact is the overwhelming majority of Camry, Avalon, ES, and RX owners ( including me ) are happy with our car. There are some people who are dissatisfied with their car but they are a small minority. If the Toyotas and Lexus were as "bad" as you described their would have been a national outcry by now with Congress demanding an investigation like the one with Ford and Firestone. Nobody is burying their head in the sand. If people were as dissatisfied as you claim Toyota wouldn't be able to do so well in the US.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    This "hesitation problem" seems to me to be more a case of bad driving and buyer's remorse more than anything else. I can't believe TMS would go as far as changing the whole program of the transmission to appease a few complaints.
    :surprise:
    Mackabee
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    There are a couple of things I want to set straight on this hesitation issue:

    1. Some people are experiencing hesitation some are not. Any statement regarding the numbers affected, be it a large or small number, is purely speculation.
    2. Just because your car does not hesitate does not mean that the problem is non-existent.
    3. Some of those experiencing hesitation find it unacceptable and potentially dangerous.
    4. Toyota has acknowledged that a problem exists (see the ES300/330 TSB and spokesperson comments in Pittsburgh Post Gazette articles).
    5. Toyota is working on a repair (see Post Gazette article regarding software upgrade). There have also been reports of new hardware (solenoid) to remedy the problem (see bkinblk’s posts in Engine Hesitation and post 1496 in Sienna 2004+ Problems and Solutions board).
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Again this is the Avalon forum not Lexus forum. I see you like to drop by hear once in a while and post the same TSB and article over and over again. You haven't added anything constructive. Since no one is posting in your "Engine Hesitation" forum you have decided to engage in an argument here.

    1. Some people are experiencing hesitation some are not. Any statement regarding the numbers affected, be it a large or small number, is purely speculation

    Why is it speculation ? If anything you are the one who is speculating. You keep going from one Toyota forum to another and link the same article over and over again. I can bet that very few people are experiencing the "hesitation" and the vast majority are not. NHTSA gets thousands of complaints each day regarding every make and model. That does not make that car dangerous. Like Mackabee said bad driving habit is probably the main reason for the "engine hesitation".
  • just__mejust__me Posts: 508
    I think you made your point, how many more posts do you want to post about this, it's over done. Please don't tell me "Just because your car does not hesitate does not mean that the problem is non-existent", because it is non-existent for me. I'm also sure as with many cars some people are making something larger out of nothing.
  • star51star51 Posts: 17
    Motown, it's fine to generalize about how "good" the car is (in fact, I myself in post 5494 said it was an "otherwise fine car"), but the fact remains and this should be the focus of the concern: many are experiencing the hesitation problem –- whether crossing a large intersection or merging into interstate traffic from an access ramp, either potentially dangerous situations.

    As to NHTSA or Congressional investigations, it may be too early for that since the 05 Avalon only debuted in February. Toyota HAS begun to address the problem on the top-of-the-line Lexus; hopefully the fix will trickle down to the other Toyota cars affected.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    For a "fix" to exist, there must be a "problem" that must also exist. Again you are speculating by throwing in the word "many". I assume by "many" you are assuming that a significant percentage of new Avalon owners are experiencing the problem. I can use common sense and conclude that "few" and not "many" people are experiencing the "problem." If "many" people were experiencing the "problem" there would an outright recall with news headline about how "dangerous" Lexus/Toyota transmissions are. Since this is only a TSB ( only affecting Lexus ES and not the Avalon) and not a recall, one can reasonably conclude that the vast majority of the owners do not consider the situation dangerous as you described.
    However, if you are one of those few who feel the car is not performing as designed take it to the dealer and have the mechanic look at it. Let him drive the car and tell him how to recreate the problem. If the mechanic says the car is performing as designed you can always go to arbitration or invoke the lemon law. Either way good luck. If you really want a reasonable response to your problems maybe you should post at the Avalon: Problems and Solutions board. You are much more likely to get a reasonable response there rather than someone posting the same Lexus TSB over and over again.
  • bikegalbikegal Posts: 50
    Sigh, like I sound, some people insist the Avalon is perfect and don't want to hear anything else. So if problems exist, they are the driver's fault? Bit fanatical, don't you think?
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Yes the Avalon is close to perfect. It is the driver's fault (most of the time). :P
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Ok most of you new Avalon owners are very enthusiastic about your Avalons, but lets face it, no car is perfect, especially for everyone.

    The Avalon faults I see, as a non-Avalon owner or enthusiast: Too small a trunk for a car its size. Old technology gooseneck hinges on the trunk lid which further encroach on trunk space. Short rear deck makes accommodating larger items in the trunk difficult. Non-folding rear seats do not allow for cargo expansion. Non folding rear view mirrors. No AWD option. No body side moldings. Covers over dash controls are a silly gimmick. Finally, though Avalon may be inexpensive if classified as a luxury car, it is quite expensive compared to some others in its size class, including Ford Five Hundred and the Non Hemi versions of the 300C, which will limit its market penetration. Though I doubt if Toyota cares much as long as it can keep its prices high to skim off the wealthier customers, and use Camry to compete for the mass market.

    The transmission shift issue I will not comment on, except to note there is no doubt Toyota seems to have some shift/hesitation issues with their 5 speed automatics on V-6's on all their front wheel drive vehicles, which may not bother most drivers, but seem to irritate others to no end.
  • star51star51 Posts: 17
    To which I can only add: some owners' exaggeratedly enthusiastic (or defensive?) reaction almost borders on "irrational exuberance", in total denial about ANY fault at all.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    You made some good points. I think AWD would have been a good option to have especially for people living in the snowbelt. The reduced trunk space probably won't be a problem for most owners. As for the price, remember you can buy the XL for around 27 to 28K which IMHO makes it quite a bargain. The Ford 500 is a nice car but the underpowered 3.0L V6 makes it as fast as a slug. I think Ford really screwed up with engine. Personally I would rather have a base Avalon XL than a loaded Five Hundred.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Nah Avalon is just fine. I think you need driving lesson. ;)
  • star51star51 Posts: 17
    I won't dignify that with a response, but you've proved my point!
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    I won't dignify that with a response

    I think you just did :P
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    I have posted 6 times (well, now 7) in this forum of over 5500 posts. Each time it has been in response to someone elses post regarding the hesitation issue. I have never seen such a lack of compassion for people having problems with their vehicle than I have seen in this Avalon board! This problem could very well indeed be small, but some of this possibly small (possibly large, we don't know) group of people have come here asking for help with a problem that is very real to them. It appears cold and calloused to say that "I don't have this problem so I don't want you talking about it". It really does rub salt in the wound. I think it is great that Toyota has finally recognized and acknowledged the existence of this problem and is trying to do something about it rather than put blinders on and hope it is small and will just go away, as you seem to be doing.
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Since i have time off of work today and nothing better to do let me respond. If Lexus/Toyota acknowledged that there might be a "problem" that some owners feel regarding the transmission and have come with a TSB than that is very good. That shows they are taking responsibility. I think you have pointed out that TSB for the millionth time now. Btw, the TSB doesn't work for the new Avalon so posting it here is not going to solve anything. And since you don't own the Avalon I am very curious to know as to why you are so interested in the whole thing. Nobody wants to rub salt in the wound but if you are genuinely interested in a solution go to your Lexus dealer, show them the TSB and get your car fixed. But like a scratched record you keep posting the same message over and over again.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Like I said, no car is perfect, but I need to point out that 500 SE FWD starts out with MSRP of $22840, and in AWD form $23965. Real world 500 out the door appear to be running about $2K under that, so there is definitely an appreciable price advantage for base 500 vs base Avalon. Yes, base Avalon has more bells and whistles, but it is starting out $4-6K higher as well, so it should have more stuff.

    Comparatively speaking the 3.0 duratech equipped 500 is slower than Avalon, but still 0-60 is in the 8-8.5 second range, which just a few years ago would have been considered very acceptable, and still is to those driving family size cars, so the HP race goes (uselessly in my opinion) on.

    Once again, no car is perfect and suits everyones needs/wants/budget.
  • johnijohni Posts: 43
    For what it's worth, I have noticed the same "mechanical hiccup" at slow speed (approx. 10 mph) mentioned in the USA Today review in my 2005 Limited. I have not noticed any gear hunting or hesitation at higher speeds. If Toyota releases a TSB for the Avalon, I would be interested in seeing if it eliminates the "jerks and shudders".
  • just__mejust__me Posts: 508
    This is what I said "I think you made your point, how many more posts do you want to post about this, it's over done. Please don't tell me "Just because your car does not hesitate does not mean that the problem is non-existent", because it is non-existent for me. I'm also sure as with many cars some people are making something larger out of nothing." This is what you said ""I don't have this problem so I don't want you talking about it". Thats's not what I said, that's what you said. So with all due respect here you go again over and over again the same thing. Are you trying to convince yourself? We read you loud and clear the first time, and after awhile it's boring. Of course anyone can talk about it and bring it up. But notice most people here who have no agenda relate their problem, some ask for a fix or how to go about it. Okay, I'm off of this topic. In the meantime the Avalon is setting sales records over last year. Notice they aren't even advertising the car on TV anymore. It's selling itself.
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    johni,

    A Toyota spokesperson quoted in the April '05 Pittsburgh Post Gazette article stated that "Toyota has announced computer software upgrades that it says should help eliminate hesitation problems in five-speed automatic transmissions in 2002 to 2005 models"

    So far, I have only seen a TSB for the 2002 - 2005 Lexus ES300/ES330. From the article it sounds like the plan is to issue one for all 2002 - 2005 models with the 5-speed auto. tranny. So keep on the look-out. Or, you could check and see if your local Lexus dealer can apply the ES330 TSB to the Avalon. As I mentioned earlier, a participant in the Engine Hesitation board has been offered a solenoid replacement/repair to help his hesitation problem.
  • future1future1 Posts: 103

    Too small a trunk for a car its size
    Old technology gooseneck hinges on the trunk lid which further encroach on trunk space
    Short rear deck makes accommodating larger items in the trunk difficult
    Non-folding rear seats do not allow for cargo expansion
    Non folding rear view mirrors
    No AWD option
    No body side moldings
    Covers over dash controls are a silly gimmick
    Finally, though Avalon may be inexpensive if classified as a luxury car, it is quite expensive compared to some others in its size class, including Ford Five Hundred and the Non Hemi versions of the 300C, which will limit its market penetration.


    Here are a few more items:

    Stability control not available in XL & Touring
    No low tire pressure warning system
    Has less front and back headroom than Camry
    Joystick-controlled navigation system is more difficult to program and control than touch screen
    Defects noted in the rear power sunshade: makes a loud scrubbing noise
    The redesigned Lexus ES350 (next Spring?) may devalue the Avalon
    Wood grain looks or feels fake (and it is)
    Simulated panic stops induced noticeable nosedive, car loses stability under moderately heavy breaking
    More road noise than expected from the Avalon
    Some imperfections in interior fit and finish
    Transmission operates as designed (for 65 year old drivers, that is)
  • VOOOOOOMMMMMM---280/Hp ----I just saw a es300,lexus 430 hesitate

    Its all been said and done,goodby all -----nothing interesting here :P

    I'll miss you Macabee and just me,until the next Hick-up

    so long pat its been a pleasure to be erased. :cry:
  • kinzuakinzua Posts: 44
    Avalonkitten,
    Know the frustration you are going through. After reading your post we arranged for another test drive at our Toyota dealer. We had previously driven a Touring model and it was that test drive that hooked us into trading a perfectly running 2000 XLS for a Limited. Today I drove the limited and I must say it ran flawlessly. From full stops or accelerating from 10-20 mph the transmission was smooth as silk.
    I have read enough on this forum to be convinced that there is a "problem" with the transmission/engine (computer program) ;) in some 2005 Avalons. What I don't understand is the statement that the computer needs to be trained. I just got off the phone with a friend of mine that has a 2004 Lexus ES330 and he said they told him the same thing.
    I read one post that recommended you get a one on one session with the Toyota technician. That makes sense to me.
    Good luck and let us know how you make out.
  • scoti1scoti1 Posts: 676
    And I think the rest of us need to be careful that we don't make folks with different viewpoints feel unwelcome.


    Pat_Host, I found this comment in one of your earlier posts and I think it is worthy of bringing up again. I have certainly been made to feel unwelcome by what appears to be a very vocal few who have blown this whole discussion up beyond what it needed to be. My participation today started out with a reply to someone voicing a concern with their hesitating Avalon. There seems to be a recurring theme here to shoot down any messenger with anything negative to say about the '05 Avalon.
  • just__mejust__me Posts: 508
    avalonturing05, sad to say I'm following you. I have had enough of the repetitive over and over again repetition when there is a wealth of knowledge almost from the beginning in the data base here. Yet every now and then someone joins in for the sake of hearing himself over and over again on the same subject with nothing new. So it's been nice. I assume my friend Ronn has found greener pastures without telling us, at least I hope that is the case meaning I hope he is well. Macabee is one great human being who tells it straight and as honest as one can be and even though he is a Toyota man, he has no agenda and is one wonderful gentleman who I pray as I have that he recovers 100%. I will miss Groza's humor, and MotownUSA who is frustrated for good cause and Havalongavalon for all his hard work, and Mikes for telling it the way it is and Deanie for wonderful honest information , Ronharv, and Loudspeaker and all the rest of the group whether Avalon lovers or not who never had an agenda but shared their honest thoughts without being repetitive, I will miss all of you. And Last but not least, the HOST of this board, PAT WHO IS TRULY AN AMAZING LADY WHO IS ABOVE REPROACH BY BEING SO FAIR. If our politicians were anything like her, Bipartisanship would always rule the day. I truly enjoyed this forum but I think it's served most of it's purpose because it's become highly repetitive. In saying good-bye, I wish everyone well, whether they buy a Humvee or Chrysler or Avalon. Every car has it's faults and you can find something with every car even a rolls-royce. I know I rode in one for many years with a friend, I wouldn't have given you any money if I had it for the Shadow of a car. For me, the Avalon is as perfect as they get and a bargain at it's price. Good Luck to all. I will miss you, your mostly one great bunch of people. :cry:
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Secondly, that TSB does not pertain to the Avalon, so let's quit discussing it here Thanks, Pat. That is what I was trying to say all along.

    Badgerfan : If Ford introduced the 500 with the all new 3.5L V6 engine with 240+ Hp ( I have heard the 3.5L might be available for 06), I think Ford would have had a winner on its hand and could have given the Avalon a run for its money. But I do agree the deep discount does make the 500 a credible alternative to those who doesn't care too much about 0 to 60 time. The Chrysler 300 looks plain ugly to me. Like a brick on wheel.
  • impartialimpartial Posts: 19
    I've been reading this Forum for well over a month, and posted messages a couple of times, It's interesting to see how the flavor of the posts has changed ... from mostly cheerleading a few weeks ago, to serious questioning about alleged shortcomings the past few days. I have learned a great deal from Ronn, Just Me, avalontouring05 and others who have shared their experiences. Thanks one and all for your input. But, please, keep it up ... don't give it up just because the tone of the forum has changed. Such change is inevitable on forums like this, and folks like me learn from the good news as well as the not-so-good news (and opinion). As you spend more time with your Avalons, you'll have more experience and new things to tell us.

    Postings on this forum helped convince me to buy a new 2005 Avalon Limited. I just took delivery, and I will share any noteworthy experiences I have, good and bad. So far, my wife hasn't let me drive it :( but she has let me ride along twice, so that's a start :) . So far, ownership has been pure pleasure. What a car!

    Impartial
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