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2005-2007 Toyota Avalon



  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the purpose of this post is actually a serious question - can any manufacturer be held liable for what some of these safety systems can do (or, for that matter, not do) outside of what could be proven as negligent. Thought there might be some lawyer out there that could answer the question. The Avalon is not even close to being the only notasnowcar (at least with specific options). We all now have to stare at ugly warning labels on our visors and an irritating orange airbag light all resulting from one the last too much too soon applications of technology - the airbag. Statistics are wonderful things, manipulated as they generally are - but to this day, I'm not sure that even airbags (Avs have plenty of them) have helped more than they hurt? That also being a question.
  • nimiminimimi Posts: 249
    Due to recent incidents of cars being stolen while warming up in the very cold winter, I was wondering if anyone knows of a way to start the car (Smart Key) and lock the doors while the car idles and warms up. The remote seems to be pretty much totally disabled when the car is running (at least lock, unlock, and trunk open don't work).
  • zekeman1zekeman1 Posts: 422
    In the lower right hand side of this site where it indicates "search this discussion", type in some search parameters regarding "navigation". You will get a large number of hits pertaining to it, including the OK banner along with just about everything else everyone has discussed concerning navigation on the new Avalon.

    I do not have the nagivation on my Avalon, so can't address your issue. But many, many others have posted alot of info on the subject. Search it for yourself, read them all, and you will be an extremely informed owner!
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Look, there are multiple reasons manufacturers continue to build patently unsafe FWD and front biased AWD vehicles. The two main reasons are, one, for the manufacturer's side less complexity in the drive train, and two, on the consumer side, no rear driveline hump.

    If you want to drive safely, be safe, then look first at any RWD car, or for a dramatically better safety factor try one of the new Lexus AWD vehicles, the IS or GS, that uses front wheel drive torque unless the use of the front wheel's contact patch can be best dedicated to directional control wherein it quickly removes engine drive torque, leading or lagging, from the front.
  • I'm getting mine installed for $100.
  • It would be truly nice if we lived in a society were people were always honest. But that is just not the case. Some people are just out there to cause trouble. If there are people in here just making up stories then all that does is make this forum completely useless because then people are basing their opinions on their false truth. Please be honest if you are going to be post here and then we can be intelligent informed consumers. Thanks
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Posts: 2,697
    I'm pretty sure they would have though of theft prevention when they designed it.
    Most likely, you can't put it in gear and drive off if it's started with only the remote starter.
  • hylynerhylyner Posts: 216
    I was simply trying to understand the problem. Sarcasm in your post tells me you have for some reason wrongly prejudged my interest, therefor it's probably best for me to back away from your dilemma and let you find someone more to your liking to discuss it with. Consider it done.

    Nonetheless, my earlier advice is well worthy of consideration. No Anti Skid, Traction Control, or ABS system in the world can work miracles. Those who naively think they do are asking for trouble.
    A snow storm--in this case a bad one with heavy wet snow (the worst for traction)--is terribly dangerous, and one of the most difficult driving conditions drivers can experience.
    Accellerating quickly from a stop in conditions like that is an impossible expectation, especially when another vehicle is coming from the side and one is trying to get out of the way.
    I can guarantee that had Trac Control been disabled, this driver would have been worse off. The car probably wouldn't have moved at all! One wheel would have been spinning impressively though!
  • zekeman1zekeman1 Posts: 422
    Not quite sure if I understand what you're saying. Do you have the Smartkey system with remote start? I have the option and have had an aftermarket remote start. I preferred the aftermarket starter over the Toyota remote. Here's why: with the Toyota remote, you start the car with the key fob & the doors stay locked while it's warming. When you go to get into it, you open the car with the unlock option and when you do, it kills the engine :( You then have to get into the car and restart it normally. Additionally, when the car is started with the remote and it's running, the emergency flashers are operating ???

    With the aftermarket remote I installed on my Tundra, you start the vehicle the same way, you can unlock the vehicle with the remote and the engine continues to run. You have to insert the key into the ignition BEFORE you begin to drive - if you don't, the engine dies - obviously an anti-theft feature. AND, the emergency flashers don't operate.

    Hope I clarified for you.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    'patently unsafe FWD' - a little strong don't you think? Most experts would agree that understeer is a patently (to use your word) safer condition for 99% of the drivers out there - that being one thing any FWD car will always be good at. And then you can point to traction improvements with weight distributed disportionately over the drive wheels.
    Yes, the only change I would like to see the Avalon would be to turn the engine 90d and add a driveshaft for what I would consider superior vehicle dynamics - but, as you state it, you would have all FWD vehicles deemed unsafe?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Sorry, sad to say, but there are times, definitely, wherein it is advantagous to turn off or disable the Trac system.

    My example was/is accelerating out of a residential street into traffic on a main thoroughfare and having the rear wheels on my 1992 LS400 slip/spin just briefly on wet "plastic" crosswalk paint/striping. The rear brakes go "thump, thump," to alleviate the wheelspin which is now already history but now my engine is fully dethrottled and I must wait seemingly EONS out in oncoming traffic before Trac gives me throttle control again.

    I can understand the logic of providing a Trac disable capability on RWD vehicles but not FWD but I don't agree with it. Wheelspin/slipping on a RWD vehicle will be a lot more benign and recoverable, generally, than the same incident on a FWD vehicle.

    There are times in adverse weather conditions when some wheelspin is desireable, say for rocking the car back and forth to get out of a "hole".

    And by the way, my 2001 AWD RX300, summer tires always, "eats" wet or fresh snowfall for breakfast. It's the packed snow or ice or thawed and refrozen snow that requires me to use the chains.

    Not by any means saying that the wet or freshly fallen stuff can't be hazardous if you overdrive your stopping or stearing capability.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    FWD vehicles are absolutely the optimal solution all around. Right up to the point wherein you wish more of that front contact patch were dedicated to lateral control and not engine drive torque, leading or lagging.

    For most modern day FWD vehicles the only sure way to accomplish that is to quickly shift into neutral when the need arises. The AAA is currently recommending exactly that.

    Yes, FWD with a Trac system that INSTANTLY brakes a slipping driven wheel or wheels and just as instantly dethrottles the engine so the front contact patch can be dedicated to maintaining directional control (assuming the resulting engine compression braking isn't too great for the level of traction) makes FWD the absolute BEST solution for 99% of today's drivers.

    You may notice that many modern day FWD vehicles' transaxles are automatically upshifting, some radically so, on closed throttle operations, "coastdown", to alleviate the potential for loss of directional control due to engine compression braking.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    so we have now beaten to death what Trac can and cannot do and heard from any owner that finds it difficult to even drive his Av on snowy roads. I can relate a dry road incident (high speed violent swerve under acceleration) that allowed me to avoid an accident that I really think I could NOT have done if I had VSC.
    These systems are options on Avalons, money well spent??
  • hylynerhylyner Posts: 216
    For those with continued skepticism (or criticism) re my caveats about Trac Systems in snow conditions...........
    Here's a clip from an excellent website entitled "How Stuff Works":

    "Traction Control in the Snow

    Many people mistakenly believe that traction control will prevent their vehicle from getting stuck in the snow. This couldn't be further from the truth. Traction control does not have the ability to increase traction; it just attempts to prevent a vehicle's wheels from spinning. For drivers who routinely drive in snowy and icy conditions, traction control, antilock brakes, and snow tires are must-have safety features."

    So, I say again: "Do not expect miracles in snow conditions from any Traction Control System."
    (Ergo--Do not condemn your Avalon Trac system if miracles don't happen when expected!)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let's move on from the traction control issues. I think we've fully explored the ins and outs of that system and problems with it are really more suited for the Maintenance & Repair board rather than taking over this discussion.
  • hylynerhylyner Posts: 216
    Howinheaven do I always get stuck in these predicaments?? ;)
    Sorry if we got carried away on that topic Pat. Intent was to be helpful, because there really is a huge misunderstanding by a great many people re what those devices can and cannot do.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    That's fine. It's just time to move on, so let's grab some eggnog and do so. ;)
  • 5539655396 Posts: 529
    Is this far enough away, Pat?. Are Avalons hot, or what. A police pursuit Avalon - Get outta here. Discuss this. forward/2005/november/images/large/photo6.jpg
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