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2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

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Comments

  • abfischabfisch Posts: 591
    Fndfmrflyr:

    Sorry about those problems. Too much trying to bring too many models out. Best advice is to never buy the first model year of any vehicle, and if you can wait out the second.

    I am hoping Toyota just sticks the 3.3L in the new 2005 Avy, and does not debut a 3.5L like others on other forum talk about. Not a big deal anyway, as it has become overrated, pushing the prices up as well.

    How things work out.

    abfisch
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    Darn, no word on the next Avalon yet! Agh...
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    There was a memo to the TMMK staff regarding the imminent demise of the 3.0L engine, and the 3.5L has been confirmed for use in the "2006 Avalon". My guess, as others have stated here, is that there will be a short run of 2005 Avalons (kind of like how there was a short run of 2003 Siennas), with a February/March 2005 debut for the 2006 models. Also, the 5 speed auto will be the only transmission offered in the 2005 model Avalon. No word yet on how soon the 3.0L is being killed, ie... if it will linger for the abbreviated 2005 MY, or will be replaced by the 3.3L.

    That 3.3L sure does seem to have been a stop-gap measure, though. Im wondering if all Camry variants will adopt this "new" 3.5L, or the timing of that. (Very little is known about the 3.5L- Not sure how new it is, if its just a bored-out 3.3L, much as the 3.3L is a bored-out 3.0, or a clean slate design.)

    ~alpha
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    I doubt the 3.5 would be a second stop gap. With as much money and effort as Toyota is investing in this project, it is surely a new design. When was the last time the V6 got a full redesign anyway? 1997?
  • finfin atlantaPosts: 589
    Much of what is being posted here follows my Toyota service writer's comments of some time ago: slightly larger engine (25 more hp), a 5 speed transmission, etc. The real question is: When do we get it? late '04 maybe? '05? Just hope they don't rush production and sacrifice quality for a faster delivery date. Of course, all "spy pics" are always welcome.
         When the new Av finally arrives, it will be interesting to again debate how the total package compares to a current model Acura TL and RL. That debate can be a topic unto itself......
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Re-read my post. It states my opinion that the 3.3L, NOT the 3.5L, may be a stop-gap. The 3.0L (1MZ) engine debuted in 1991 as a 1992 in the Camry and ES300. It has been continually refined up to this point, to maximize efficiency, and lower emissions. Its top power/torque ratings were in the OLD RX300 (and HL) 220hp and 222 lb. ft. of torque. The 3.3L (3MZ) now used in Camry applications is a bored out version of the 3.0L. We do not yet know if the 3.5L is related to this family of engines, or if it is a clean sheet design.

    Fin- I really do not feel the Avalon will be competing against the RL, a vehicle priced higher by about $10,000. The Avalons competitors will likely continue to be some of the non-performance oriented entry luxury models, as well as the Chrysler 300s, Ford Five Hundreds, Kia Amanitis, etc.

    ~alpha
  • andy71andy71 Posts: 96
    If the 05 Avalon gets the much anticipated 3.5 engine wouldn't the ES330 also get it? It's hard to imagine the Avalon outdoing the ES. So in that respect the ES330 was also a stop gap measure. Why didn't Toyota just go from 3.0L to 3.5L?
  • cammer2cammer2 Posts: 38
    With all the talk about the new Avalon, is it still a given that it will be built in Kentucky? And that it will remain FWD?

    I keep wondering if the (concept) Toyota Crown is really the Avalon replacement. Seems awfully strange that the Avy is slated to appear the same time as the new GS300 (350?), and that the Toyota web-site is even showing the Crown.

    On the other hand, it's crossed my mind that Toyota could be going the way of the entry-level Lexi -- offering both a IS300/ES300 at the (roughly) same price point.

    Does anyone think there could be a FWD Avalon sold alongside a RWD Crown?

    Enquiring minds want to know ... (or just have too much time to think about about such things .. <g>)
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    To be clear, I think its pretty much accepted at this point that the NEW Avalon will debut with a 2006 model year designation. Not much is known about other Camry variants using the 3.5L engine, but I would imagine that the ES will get the engine too. The entire ES line is hardly a stop-gap. Who knows the reasons why Toyota didnt go from 3.0L to 3.5L directly? Im guessing it was for similar reasons that Ford can't debut its new models with the Duratec 35- timing, production, testing, and monetary constraints. Basically right now there is too little known to provide concrete answers of many of the questions being asked.

    All we can say is Toyota has a 3.5L in the works, destined for use in the next Avalon and other Camry based platforms. Timing of the final production of the 3.0L is uncertain, though likely to occur BEFORE the 3.5L is mass produced.

    cammer- The Avalon will be produced at TMMK. Powertrain employees were the ones who received the memo about the "2006 Camry and Avalon 3.5L V6". I feel the Crown is a doubtful candidate- its not a Camry based model, which the Avalon is.

    ~alpha
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    Don't get your hopes up that the Avalon will be the Toyota Crown! That model is only on the Toyota website to showcase what they can do if they put their minds to it. The Toyota Crown is basically a Lexus GS/Toyota Aristo. Same platform, same transmission, same engines. The Avalon will be based on the Camry which uses a different V6 engine.
  • valdivavaldiva Posts: 3
    With projected new engines, will premium gas be recommended? With current gas prices, seems like a bad time to introduce a car that recommends premium. I know several TOL do recommend premium, but that would be major change for the Avalon. Also know that premium recommendation can be ignored, but Avalon owners do like to "follow the book" for at least a while.
  • mascmasc Posts: 21
    lol.... u pretty funny

    The Toyota Crown was one of the first Toyota vehicles. It dates back to the beginning of Toyota Motor Corporation. It is just that the Crown has never been introduced into the North American market. This year marks the 12th generation of the Toyota Crown and is introduced into the US as a "concept" which is really the 12th redesign of the Toyota Crown. The Crown is also not really a variant of the GS. It might share some components but these two were intended for very different markets. The Crown is and always have been a Toyota flagship (in other parts of the world), it serves as a luxury sedan for one who wants a luxury car but not at a price of a premium sedan. On the other hand, the GS/Aristo is a luxury sport sedan that is very... sporty. lol. It does not have as much luxury features as the Crown is more sport-oriented. The new Crown is still going to serve as a luxury sedan with ammenities such a 7-inch colour display, a refridgerater, fold-down front seat (as a leg rest for the rear passenger) and such. It also has a softer suspension and is heavier in comparison to the new GS (more sluggish handling). And the new GS will continue is sport-oriented path and feature tighter suspension and a lighter body.
  • andy71andy71 Posts: 96
    I hope the new Avalon gets its styling cues from the Crown. The Majesta looks beautiful, much better looking than any Toyota or Lexus cars sold here. I was wondering why they haven't thought about selling the Crown in North America

    http://speedycars.net/wallpaper/toyota_crown.html
  • solara00solara00 Posts: 81
    Are you saying that the link on Toyota's website the to the Crown Concept car is a depiction of what the 2005 Avalon will be/look like?

    Or will is that "Concept Car" more an addition to the LEXUS line?

    If this is the new Avalon, what should we expect the high-end price range to be?

    Thanks.........
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The Crown is not the new Avalon, or the new Lexus GS.

    ~alpha
  • kmcmikmcmi Posts: 22
    The Toyota "Flagship" vehicle in Japan is not the Crown but actually a vehicle called the Toyota Century. It has a V12 engine and looks very much like a stretched version of a Buick from the '80s. It has a price tag of over $100,000. Not that it matters much to the discussion, just thought you might like to know.

    In case you wanted to see pictures here is a link to the Japanese toyota.com site that has them:

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/Century/menu/f- - - rame/exterior.- html

    interior shots:

    http://www.toyota.co.jp/Showroom/All_toyota_lineup/Century/menu/f- rame/interior.- html

    And yes, it is a 2004 model year.
  • solara00solara00 Posts: 81
    Well, as usual then, I guess my local dealership doesn't know what they are talking about.

    They gave me that link to the Crown Concept saying they were told last September that this would be the 2005/2006 Avalon.

    Wonder why they would do that?
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    The wallpaper from that website is actually the previous generation Toyota Crown. The new Toyota Crown looks almost the same, just sleeker. IMO, the new Toyota Crown Athlete looks the best.
  • mascmasc Posts: 21
    Solara00, the link on the US Toyota website to the Crown "concept" should not have anything to do with the new upcoming Avalon or any other Lexus models. The main point of my post was just to clarify that the Toyota Crown has been and always will be a completely separate Toyata vehicle from the Avalon and that it is NOT a "concept" as it is really the new generation of car that has been around for a long time.
    PS: and most of the time the local dealerships are the last to know of any company intelligence.

    Kmcmi, what I meant was that the Toyota Crown has been a very significant vehicle in Toyota for a long time (it is one of the longest serving Toyota models, first appeared in 1955). The Century was actually introduced aprroximately 10 years after the first Toyota Crown before then, it was the Crown was the flagship by specifications and price. However, even after the Century was introduced, many still considered the Crowns as the flagship of Toyota because of the image of status it car was inteneded to portray. Which is why the Toyota Crown has been used for transportation and named as the offical car of Japan for Royals and important business leaders for so many years.
  • solara00solara00 Posts: 81
    Thanks for the info. We've purchased 3 Toyotas from this dealership. Althought not liking the current Avalon body style, I was wanting to know if the salesman had any info on the next generation Avalon. I had sent in the link to the "greenish" Avalon that you can also find in these posts. He said the greenish Avalon is not the body style and that's when he directed me to the Crown Concept link. He said he was at a Toyota auto show in September and they told him that would be fairly close to what the 2005 Avalon would be.

    Am I surprised that his info is probably bad? Not at all. So I guess we'll all just have to wait to see what rolls out.

    I wonder if we will have more definite information by September or October?
  • mascmasc Posts: 21
    You know, we really should create a Crown forum also. Since its such an important car for Toyota. Especially now that it might be coming into North America.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Posts: 840
    If the Crown is to be a Lexus, why is it shown in the TOYOTA website as a FUTURE vehicle?

    If it's going to be a Lexus, it should be displayed in the Lexus Concept Vehicle, like the HPX 400.

    Therefore, isn't it logical to assume that the Crown will eventually be in the Toyota line-up?
    If so, why would they need both the Crown and the Avalon?
    Or can we speculate that the Crown will replace the Avalon just like the Avalon replaced the Crest?
  • fndlyfmrflyrfndlyfmrflyr Posts: 668
    Or can we speculate that the Crown will replace the Avalon just like the Avalon replaced the Crest? - which replaced the Crown as Toyota's top of the line in the U. S. many years ago.

    Sorry, couldn't resist. It would be nice if it had all of the latest safety and performance/economy goodies (like hybrid standard), but as long as it isn't ugly and provides the room and ride of the current model it will be a very nice car. Make it look good too and it will draw in more people to look and might increase Avalon sales at the expense of Lexus sales.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Posts: 840
    Interesting. I was not aware of that.
    Hmmm, I guess what comes around goes around.

    But why do you suppose Toyota has the Crown Concept on their website?
    Surely not to say that it will be the next LEXUS!
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Toyota is just looking to drum up speculation and anticipation of the new Avalon by putting the Crown concept on the website. If so, it seems to be working!

    Ive read so much conflicting information and sheer speculation on the next Avalon that Im not going to be surprised by ANYTHING that appears as the actual vehicle.

    Now Im reading that the REDESIGNED Avalon may be available as soon as Nov/December, with the confirmed 3.5L V6.

    Theres just not much concrete information available right now. Whatever, the case, purchase prices on the 2004s should be falling by end of summer.

    ~alpha
  • robmatt54robmatt54 Posts: 11
    I am amazed at the ability of Toyota to keep this information secret. If the Avalon comes out in December or even January, does that mean right now there is a test Avalon going around a track somewhere or is it now just a little model in a wind tunnel or a design in a computer? How long does it take to tool up the assembly line and robotics in a factory to produce a car? If it is being tested, does it get tested in Japan or here? How long is an actual vehicle tested before the announcement? It seems it easier to get info out of the Pentagon. Just fascinating to me.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I couldnt agree with you more. Theres a TMMK worker who posts at another website bulletin board, and he seems to fully believe the next Avalon is a FWD variant of the NEXT Lexus GS platform, and not the Camry. This blows my mind if its true. And if its not, I dont know why he would be claiming it. Allegedly, Toyota is going to offer all the full-scale luxo appointments on the next Avalon, ranging from backup camera to dynamic laser cruise. Said TMMK team member claims that 3 hand built next-gen Avalons were recently delivered from Japan, and that they are truly FLAGSHIP automobiles. Also claimed is that 270 hp is dead-on for the 3.5L.

    Again, I just dont know how credible any of this stuff is.

    All very mind-boggling.

    ~alpha
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,298
    alpha01:

    If it true what you say about the Avalon Version 3.0, then how does Lexus differentiate itself from Toyota. The whole point of the Lexus Division, I believe, is to offer product refinement, a pleasant sales experience and unsurpassed service, all a premium price. I believe they call that prestige pricing.

    If the same features and amenities are offered in the Avalon, then the Avalon would cannibalize Lexus's sales. So from a strategic marketing point of view the Avalon has to be a "lesser" car than a Lexus. And that lesser car I am afraid will be another dowdy design.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Posts: 840
    Look at the Toyota Sienna!
    It's a Toyota, and yet it has features normally reserved for Lexus:
    Gated Shifter, R/V Camera, NAV, DVD RES, Laser Cruise Control, Intuitive Parking w/both Front and Rear sensors, HID headlamps, Manual Sunshades for 2nd and 3rd row seats, Side-Curtain airbags for all 3 rows, 3-Zone Climate control, Powered liftgate, AWD, and Tire Pressure Monitor.
    So why not put these features on the Avalon in the form of the Crown Concept?
    Some people will still prefer the Lexus name badge. The current Avalon is already larger in size than the ES330. It's not going to compete with the GS since the GS is a sports sedan whereas the Avalon/Crown is near-luxury sedan. It's definitely not going to compete with the LS430.

    The Solara and Sienna already have the Gated Shifter, normally associated with Lexus.
    The Avalon already has the nice huge chrome grille, normally associated with Lexus.
    And with Toyota putting the Crown Concept on their website means it's a possibility the next Toyota Flagship will be near-lexus.
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,298
    andrewtran71, the Toyota Crown concept is a departure from the current vehicle.
    http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_tokyo/toyota/crown_concept/- - pages/1.htm

    However, the dimensions look the same as the Camry and in my opinion does NOT "look" like a flagship sedan, or am I missing something?
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