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Comments
Your comparison, was between the Q and the GS, not the Lexus line even though you state otherwise. The two models do not actually compete in the same segment, thus a moot point and a bad comparison in general.
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Just reread my first post slowly. It helps to read slowly when you have problems understanding the language.
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Did I miss something here, Petey??? Have you actually looked at what Lexus, BMW, etc have to offer in terms of technology or no one has these features until Infiniti does?
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Yes, as I said, just reread my first post very slowly. You’ll note that I not only looked at Lexus but owned 5 LS’s before my Q. As I also said, rather than “imitating” Lexus, Infiniti was first with Sat radio (by years), Voice recognition (by years) and rearview monitor (by years). Then after Lexus copied Infiniti on the rear view monitor they had it in every RX commercial for a year, as proof of there technology leadership.
When I bought my Q, I loved the Q for its handling and the completeness of its features and I OWNED the same generation LS. Yes the Q beat the LS to market on a hoard of features that made a huge difference in my driving experience. I also rented an S500 for a week, and was appalled at its deficiencies. BMW same.
There was not a single inaccuracy in my first post, your diversions notwithstanding.
Does the GS have any of the features I pointed to in my G vs M comparison.
In a word no.
Thanks for that great data. At 6.3, the M35 is certainly no slouch! Will be interesting to see the affect of AWD on it though.
thx again for the numbers.
Ace
More specifically, deal was negotiated with them that included a paint sealant, as well as, reapplication of the service every 6 months for three years. They now claim that the service was not purchased even though it is on the supplemental sticker, as well as, the sales contract.
No wonder auto dealers are considered slime.
They did claim that auto sales people do rank higher than attorneys. Lol
From Nissannews:
Final drive ratio (:1)
M35 = 3.538 (AWD 3.692)
My guess is that this final drive ratio increase is largely designed to offset the weight increase of the AWD.
- Ray
Expecting no worse than 6.5 sec 0 - 60 . . .
M35 - 49 cars
M35x - 101 cars
M35 AWD - 37 cars
M45 - 70 cars
M45x - 107 cars
Infiniti needs to increase the supply of Non-sport models plus I still think they are over optimistic on the number of M45s they are going to sell -IMHO.
Signed,
Someone with way too much time on their hands.
With G35, G35x = G35 AWD, I believe...
Does the GS have any of the features I pointed to in my G vs M comparison.
In a word no.
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Inaccuracy, sorry I couldn't resist
infiniti M -Cargo volume 14.9 cubic feet (11.4 cubic feet with full-size spare) <-----hope M owners take their spare out for that extra 3.5 cubed ft
Lexus GS Trunk capacity: 12.7 cubic feet (360 L)
Inaccuracy, sorry I couldn't resist
infiniti M -Cargo volume 14.9 cubic feet (11.4 cubic feet with full-size spare) <-----hope M owners take their spare out for that extra 3.5 cubed ft Lexus GS Trunk capacity: 12.7 cubic feet (360 L) </I>
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That's the best you have?
With my 13 advantages on the M vs. the GS all you come up with (to prove my many "inaccuracies") is you don't like how they achieve their trunk space advantage?
Good job.
You MUST be a salesman. Where do you sell lexii?
Pete
A couple of you are turning your exchange into a personal confrontation - that's not appropriate here. Agree to disagree and move on.
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I saw this after my last post.
Fair enough. Agreed
Pete
The dealer body "suggests" under city only driving that the interval be 3,750 miles.
And, a dealer service manager said (apparently) under mixed conditions but mostly highway, the interval average should be 5,000 miles.
Question: what does it take to keep the warranty in force?
Question: does Infiniti suggest regular, semi-syn or pure syn oil and are there interval differences (other than the ones most of us could infer) with the three types of oil?
Finally, being a long time Audi owner/driver, I can almost quote chapter and verse the service requirements -- but I am clueless about Infiniti.
I have heard (rumor) that other than oil changes (and I assume some other fluids -- e.g., anti-freeze, brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc) very little is required in terms of maintenance -- OK, is there a source of the maintenance requirements in the first 50,000 miles or would someone who actually has one of these M's be so kind as to post the requirements?
Thanks.
For example, I have heard that the spark plugs are 60,000 mile interval items -- is this accurate?
With Audi the intervals are basically "oil and filter" every 10,000 miles and at some 10,000 mile intervals you do additional things, like spark plugs or other filters or fluids. At 30,000 mile intervals you may be required to perform brake pad inspection or drain and refil of certain lubricants or protectants, etc.
The Infiniti, probably due to my ignorance, seems to have very short service intervals -- at least this is my impression.
I would switch to syn oil at 5,000 or 7,500 miles, if I go ahead and move forward with a new "M."
http://www.infiniti.com/m/pdf/Infiniti_Service_Maintenance_Guide.pdf
. . probably need to be taken to a higher authority.
Spark Plug replacement shows up only at 105,000 miles / 84 months, for instance.
(I posted this link here a couple of weeks ago.)
- Ray
Less concerned with regular maintenance than 'unscheduled' trips to the dealer . . .
I realize that the cost/price is usually negotiable...so how much have people been paying, or what prices have the dealers been offering on this?
Thanks.
signed
Pete
Peter my response is below
The things I like best about my M45 vs my Q45 are: it is significantly quicker, the handling is sharper, the ride is firmer, the technology that both have is greatly enhanced (voice recognition as well as Nav system), the new technology on my M45 (has rear camera feature which I find very helpful, especially at night as it shows things clearly even when it is dark behind the car), the lane departure system is a nice safety feature, the sound system is greatly enhanced, the size is effective (smaller externally but comparable space inside) and finally I find the looks of the M45 more appealing than the Q45.
The negatives list is short and subjective. The Q is quieter and a softer ride (even though I have a Sport edition of the Q, and always have the suspension set in sport mode). My wife prefers the softer, quieter ride of the Q, I personally prefer the M's ride.
I havent tried out my backseat DVD system in the M45 yet and while the M45 has a larger trunk, the opening to put suitcases in it is smaller than my Q and I have a concern about being able to get some very large (Wide) suitcases for longer trips in the trunk. But this isnt a big deal to me since often a limo to the airport is a better option anyway. The trunk in the M handles my golf clubs just fine so that is what really matters to me in a trunk.
Hope this helps, quiz me if you have specifics or need more indepth on any of these areas.
As it is, buying them is. I haven't kept track of how much money I haven't spent on extended warranties so far, but I'm confident I'm well ahead of the curve.
Part of the deal is buying stuff that generally doesn't break. The refugees from European vehicles will eventually get used to the idea that most of the time, expensive stuff doesn't break on Asian vehicles.
Bought the M35x last week, after being unimpressed with the GS300 $ premium for a comparably equipped vehicle (But they do deserve a premium for reliability, and Grandpa can will you the car after a generation or so).
I laughed the Germans (530i, E320) out the door, outright. I think the 'dumb yuppie stock broker/drug dealer who has to do something with his cash before it goes up his nose' mystique wears thin after a few days of drinking German Service Dept. coffee. That said, I'm a recovering BMW addict, which makes we insufferable at BMW crackhead meetings. But hey, if that's the only MB/BMW demographic left these days, go with it.
The only competitor in the bunch was the RL - until (per earlier posts) the local dealers decided to juice the price 10K over its US list.
Not to repeat the comparos, but unless the M turns out to be a fated lemon (and I've never bought a new model until this month for that prudent reason), I can't see how ANYONE with US$40-50K to spend would buy any other vehicle. The objective facts are that clear. And no, I'm not a Nissan person in disguise! Just a valuebuyer.
Engine does provide sound under any acceleration, but I like that. Certainly not obnoxious. Ride is superb, yet refined and precise. I'm coming off an Audi TT, which had super handling, and I'd say that 35x is stickier yet.
Got mine for $2,000 off list, and they say they'll do that for any M for other forum members as well. Email me for details.
Saw in the manual correction insert page that you can drive the 35 on regular. Anyone doing that? They recommend 91 for "improved performance." Maybe 89 as a compromise?
The manual pumps "premium maintenance" at 3750 intervals, but all you need to do is 7,500 to maintain the warranty. That still seems a bit long to me, so I'll probably do 5,000 (with synthetic). And you can change the oil yourself without voiding the warranty.
I smell that burning smell others have mentioned. Glad I read about that here before calling the dealer.
Voice recognition is spot on.
Got Umbria Grey with wheat. It's not really grey at all--it's sort of an olive brown. The big picture at the website for this and other colors are way off. Some color combinations strike me as weird--a warm wheat leather with a cool silver exterior. And that bourbon leather is a putrid pumpkin, not at all like the rather attractive color on the web site, and it clashes with the rosewood.
My first Infiniti ever. Used to think of them as a "me too" car, without the prestige of a Lexus. But I've definitely changed my mind....
Thanks for the report. Sounds like you’re totally enjoying it. Given my test drive, I get the feeling that my wife and I will have the same reactions to the ride that you and your wife have.
I also agree about the enhancements to Voice recognition, NAV, sound, and rearview monitor. IMO they’re tremendous. I did notice that the rear view monitor is brighter on the M than on my Q, and it’s nice to hear how well it works in the dark.
Have you noticed that the M has improved the intelligent cruise control as well? It seems to have more ESP in figuring out how I’d personally like the car to slow down and speed up.
Have fun with your car
Pete
The salesman said that it was [garbled] burning off of the manifold [???]
I have never noticed such a pungent smell on a brand new car. Could this be the M's fatal flaw?
Any thoughts or insight?
I'd prefer Serius for several reasons:
I already have a Serius radio at home so I know the channel lineup, Sirius offers a discount for add on radios, Sirius offers a lifetime subscription for $499 (one payment, you're all done), and Sirius seems to have fewer channels with advertising than XM.
Short of ordering a vehicle, which seems silly just to get Sirius, I do want the technology package and my dealer says that they can't change out the XM for a Sirius radio since it is in the package even though satellite radio is a dealer add on for cars not already equipped. It seems to mee that Infiniti would be smart to unbundle the satellite radio and make it a dealer add on option so you can choose when you buy from inventory.
When a car is shipped its engine and some other parts I imagine are covered with a kind of grease or wax to prevent oxidation. It is cleaned off during prep -- but the cleaning is NOT 100%.
Since I have never had a car NOT have this smell for perhaps the first few days or few hundred miles, I kind of think of it as a "new car smell."
Heck, my electronic equipment has a kind of ozone smell until it gets "burned in" too.
This will pass.
It is possible, but I would hope rare, that a few drops of oil were spilled and not 100% wiped up (this, however, would just be sloppy).
Wait 500 miles and call me in the morning. . . .
It seems to me that Infiniti would be smart to unbundle the satellite radio and make it a dealer add on option so you can choose when you buy from inventory
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Nissan has recently signed a long term deal, making XM their exclusive supplier of wireless data services. In one respect, this is good for Nissan since XM has a big lead in this area.
An example of this is NavTraffic, a wireless traffic feed integrated with Navigation, to show and route around traffic conditions. XM has it today (on the RL) A NavTeq Exec told me Sirius will not have that before 2008. (NavTeq provides this data to XM and sirius both)
There are many terrific things coming in wireless data to cars and, given the new agreement, Nissan will only benefit from them to the degree that they emphasize XM.
I expect that next year Infiniti will have Factory installed XM along with Nav Traffic and other data services.
Pete
I have been corresponding with an "Internet" dealer and we have settled (assuming I move forward) on an M35x with Tech & Journey w/Sirius.
If I were to order within the next 30 days, would I get Sirius (which I want) or XM?
My wife's new Bimmer will have Sirius and our friends have one car with XM and one with Sirius and they prefer Sirius and now that the price of both are the same, there is no diff $-wise.
They claim fewer commercials and "better" choice -- with two cars with Sirius, I think, too, there is a package discount from Sirius.
Of course, Howard Stern could kill them or catapult them -- I have not spent much of my time EVER listening to Stern, but I applaud his move to satellite. I suppose he can "say anything" once he is on satellite. I'd probably spend almost no time on him, personally, but our friends swear by Sirius.
Anyway the question still stands -- can I still order Sirius this year (April or May for all practical purposes).
And, ordering a car is double the fun of buying one off the lot -- IMHO.
edit: I'm a slow typist undecided's post want there when I started my post.
Many terrific M oriented quotes in that piece:
Styling
[The GS] seems a bit on the stodgy side, and not nearly as forward-looking as the new M from Infiniti. Winner: M35
Ride and Handling
The Lexus did not feel as crisp in responding to driver inputs and, to our surprise, did not display the same degree of ride comfort as the Infiniti. Winner: M35
Interior
The gorgeous three-tone cockpit of the M35 seemed far more open and inviting than the interior of the GS 300. The M35 had a decided advantage in rear legroom. Winner: M35
Engine
Infiniti M35 is the clear winner here, in terms of output and sheer exuberance. The GS engine often feels like it's working overtime to keep up. In addition, we noticed excessive drivetrain noise at higher speeds with the Lexus. Winner: M35
Safety & technology
[No good quotes for either. IMO this particular conclusion is a mistake since he missed a bunch of more valuable M tech, voice controlled NAV, AUX iPod input, MP3 CD’s. MES, 5.1 Surround. BTW I would have more easily accepted a GS win on interior]
Winner: GS300
Summary
The M35 is a major leap forward and a standout in just about every way.
Overall Winner M35
Everyone has their own taste. I greatly prefer XM over sirius, but to each his own.
A couple of notes just for the record however.
- Sirius now has more stations with commercials and more commercials in general than XM and has publicly stated they are looking to expand commercials significantly in the future. (Reports to the contrary are based on the old days when XM had commercials on music stations.)
- Sirius has vastly more repetition in their music than XM. XM playlists and music library are literally about 10 times deeper. I love XM music.
- Sirius DJ's talk much more than XM's. Some like it, some hate it.
- Sirius devotes much more on-air time to promoting their other stations. They do this on their commercial free stations, and I personally hate it.
Pete
I am also curious as to whether Infiniti would offer an upgrade if and when such services become available. If not, the point about expanded services becomes moot, at least for this year's production.
I suspect that XM's "big lead" was more a function of their initial pricing being lower and many customers not realizing that the cost was subsidized by advertising on many of their music channels. Now that they have dropped the ads and increased the prices it will be interesting to see if the gap closes. Most people that I have heard from who have compared the two prefer the content on Serius.
Interesting quote in the magazine: "somewhere inside the new Lexus GS, we're sure, is a good car. . .we just can't seem to find it!" [sic].
Had this been ONLY in Motor Trend, I might have taken this with a tiny grain of salt -- but this remark is similar to last month's C&D wherein their author suggested the Lexus was perfect in every way, but lacked passion.
Infiniti apparently has really hit one long and hard -- perhaps out of da park!
Then again, Lexus claims VERY rapid updates are planned for their cars -- if Infiniti turns out new models at a more leisurely pace, well Lexus may pass Infiniti.
Funny thing the RL is dominant in these magazines, recently, by virtue of the "roaring silence."
Can't wait for a test between a Mercedes and a Lexus and an M and a BMW or perhaps the M35x and the A6 3.2.
Now THAT would be entertaining, I'd wager.
Some of the Sirius stations do have a little more than necessary DJ chatter, but for the vast majority of the music stations, I can honestly say that I've never heard a DJ speak more than introducing the next song. I completely disagree with the level of repetition on Sirius vs. XM. Sirius has more original content (musical guests, interviews, call ins, etc.), and it's not pre-recorded from network radio stations as quite a few of XM's stations are. Sirius also has some music industry celebrities DJ-ing they're channels.
The other half has XM in her car and I have Sirius in mine. We both prefer Sirius. A comment I hear from her a lot is, "How come I don't have all the good stations like you do?" or "You always have all the good stuff on your radio and all I get is the same ol' stuff as regular radio. Why am I even paying for XM?"
One station XM has that I wish Sirius had similar is Cinemagic. I sometimes enjoy listening to actual movie scores and not the "soundtrack."
But it's all a matter of personal preference. But I think XM is selected so often because most people have never experienced satellite radio before and, since they advertise to death, XM's all they're vaguely familiar with. You should read all the praise XM gets on the RL board! If they ever had an opportunity to evaluate Sirius, they'd probably change their tunes. No pun intended.
" While music channels air without commercials, some advertising accompanies talk shows and news programs on the satellite channels. Advertising contributed 4.8 percent of XM Satellite's revenue of $83.1 million in the quarter ended Dec. 31. At Sirius, ads accounted for 2 percent of revenue of $25.2 million in the same period.
``Our primary revenue stream is from subscriptions, but we have a dual-revenue model,'' says XM Satellite CEO Hugh Panero, 49, who spent a decade at Time Warner Inc.'s cable-television division beginning in 1982. ``That's the same distinction between cable and regular TV.'' "
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=nifea&&sid=aROY9gOh42KM
alternate http://tinyurl.com/492pf
The Lexus, had a $4,000 stereo in it, so that in part explains this price gap.
The Lexus was less quick and "smaller" in every significant dimension (what ever that means).
The test, despite what I am telling you by recollection was reasonably close, but not simply "by a hair."
Lexus is clearly a popular brand -- and based on what I think I know, is more successful in selling cars here in North America. I believe in many of the reliability numbers the Infiniti often comes out as #2 to Lexus' #1.
Clearly, however, the press overwhelmingly lauds "driver's" praise on the Infiniti.
I guess it almost seems a contradiction. The authors of these articles (who ought to know more than I) claim that these Premium Japanese cars have "BMW" (and/or in the case of Lexus, Mecedes) in their crosshairs. Yet, in the comparos (well at least 51% of them) the BMW 5 and the Audi A6 have been repeatedly "trounced" by Acura, Infiniti and Lexus. The contradiction? Well, even in the same publication that a month or two previously had claimed the Japanese to be victorious, the subsequent articles still bow down and appear to say the Japanese cars are BMW (or whatever) wannabees. Huh? In month 1 the Infiniti, the RL or the GS "betters" its German rivals, then in month 3 the individual test report comes out and says the "benchmark" against which these cars are being measured is the (fill in the blank) BMW 5 or the Mercedes E or whatever.
All I know for certain is that the current 2006 iteration of cars from Lexus and Infiniti and the 2005 RL are either nipping at the heals of the big 3 German companies or have already bettered them (so says two or three car mags and many newspaper reviews). The clear winner, today, is Infiniti. Who knows, next year or 2007 or 8 the Lexus may be the new champ. Or maybe Acura will clean their clocks.
And, we shouldn't count the Germans out -- from where I sit, they have only had the wind knocked out of them (and maybe a bruise or two).
Clearly the car and driver (little c and d) writers have identified:
Acura set its sites on Audi (first)
Infiniti set its sites on BMW (first)
Lexus set its sites on Mercedes (first).
They (the writers) are quick to add, however, that coming into focus for all of these big Japanese guns is, once again, BMW. All hail Bimmer!
My wife is giving me the "eye" as she sees she is losing me to the Infiniti "as the sands of time, pass through the hourglass. . ."