Infiniti M35/M45 2006+

jrock65

lexusguy,

I would expect that the new model would improve upon the older one. My point is that compared to vehicles in its class at the time, the old RX interior was pretty nice. I'm not comparing it to a future model that came 6 years later. I do find the new interior quite better, but that's to be expected.

ceric,

According to the specs, the passenger seat is 6 way power.

The specs are on www.infinitinews.com

The driver and passenger seat controls on my wife's Accord EX-V6 look exactly the same. However, the driver's is 8 way power and the passenger's is 4 way power. The long bar on the driver's seat moves up and down, but the bar on the passenger seat does not.

Anyway, the specs are preliminary, so I'm hoping that it'll change. With the RL, quite a few people have complained about the lack of height adjustment on the passenger seat of a $50k car. The Japanese Legend has height adjustment, whereas the RL does not.

lexusguy

Ok, but what I was getting at though is that Lexus became known for clean, straight foward and thoughtfully designed controls as far back as the first LS400. The following shot is of a 12 year old car, and yet the layout in my opinion is much better than RX300s. The SC, GS, and ES of the day shared these traits as well. I know at least one magazine criticized the RX for failing to live up to the standards set by its predecessors.

ivan_99

In following with the tangent off the original thread...

I think this interior is far superior

lexusguy

A Volkswagen Phaeton doesnt have anything to do with anything. Materials are nice, but the layout is madness. Also, it wasnt good enough for VW to sell any.

Kirstie_H

Let's try to get off the subject of other vehicles and stick to any new info & comments about the upcoming Infiniti. Comparisons can be made after the car is available.

Also, please don't post so many photos - provide a link instead. The photos really slow down the load time for these pages for our members who use dial-up, and big pictures distort the forums pages.

hpowders

Hello. You seem to be sensitive to posts concerning front leg room. I am 6'2'. I currently have a BMW which is really skimpy on the front leg room. Are you saying that the 2006 M45 will have plenty of front legroom?
Thank you.

ceric

Hi, hpowders:
No, I am not very sensitive to leg room myself. I was replying to prior post on leg room and collected data to post in this forum.

That said, M35/M45 ride on 4 inches of longer wheel base (than current version). You can bet that they would utilize that space efficiently. Did you know the BMW E39 was rated as "compact"? I am not sure about the new BMW E60. For comparison, even Prius is rated as "Mid-size". It seems to me that M35/M45 would be generous as far as space is concerned.

ivan_99

Phaeton doesn't but Tourage does...but not in this message board.

lexusguy

I'm 5'10", and felt the G35 had plenty of room in front, so I seriously doubt the M35\45 would be a problem. The last 5 series was teeny tiny.

alpha01

The teaser brochure. Damn, it certainly did its job- makes me want to climb that corporate ladder as quick as I can!

The exterior and interior styling are elegant yet agressive, while still managing to combine a contemprory flair with functionality. Tremendous. (I prefer this car's styling inside and out to the rather disharmonious and plainish design of the RL).

I feel the hp has been pegged at 280 for the M35; the brouchure plainly states the V6 will have 275+ hp in the M35, but the accompanying letterhead cites 280 pretty firmly. That should be plenty, IMO.

Although Im not in the market for this league of car just yet (unless I hit the lotto), Im not very impressed by the RL, given the lukewarm reviews I've read. And given its 300 hp, the Car and Driver Street Start time (the 0-60 that is obtained by everyday folks, without employing fancy techniques) of a sluggish 7.8 seconds is hardly impressive when considering the vehicles brand new design and $49,470 price tag.

~alpha

liferules

I also just received the brochure yesterday in the mail. Very professional in presentation. Nice to see at least one auto company preceding delivery of their car with advertising.

The car is looking very nice. My wife will be in the market for a new car and this may be just the right thing for her...

lexusguy

Agree. Honda needed to do better. I am pretty disappointed with the RL, considering the amount of time it took them to replace the old car. I wouldnt buy a car with braking distances that terrible either. While there obviously arent road tests of M or GS yet, the E and 5 absolutely humiliate the RL in the 70-0 test. Those 30 feet could mean the difference between a close call and a serious accident.

alpha01

I think thats a bit dramatic. There is nothing wrong with a stopping distance of 180ft from 70. If braking is so important, perhaps the only vehicles you should consider are sports cars. I will say it is rare that you will need to come to a dead stop from 70MPH EVER. Yes, ceteris paribus strong brakes are better, no doubt. But the 180 foot stopping distance is hardly unsatisfactory, and would likely improve with stickier tires.

~alpha

PS- The Audi A6 4.2 Quattro in the very same issue of Car and Driver (Dec 04) needs 178ft to stop. The $56,000 BMW 530i tested in Jan 04 needed 167 feet from 70, so the difference would then be 13 ft, not 30.

ceric

I also received the teaser brochure, from which I have found no extra info than what I don't already knew. Some name changes in exterior colors, though. I am also "slightly" disappointed to see some great color combo that are available in Japan, but not here in US.

The problem with RL may have something to do with the very short first gear (<3.0). That is very abnormal for a heavy car (~4000lbs) and low torque (260ft-lb). In fact, it makes RL feel sluggish initially. I own a Honda Odyssey. To be honest, RL does not feel much quicker than my Odyssey for the first 20mph. And, the new M does have proper gear ratio. The M45 would certain do 0-60mph below 6sec if Infiniti can keep the weight below 4000lbs.

ceric

Personally, Braking performance is second to acceleration when I look for a car. After all, what goes fast must slows down. Through my 6+ years of ownership of BMW 540ia (great brake!), I have had two encounters that required panic stops (both were not my fault - some crazy CA drivers just cut in front of me). 13ft could make a world of difference, IMHO. I agree. 180ft isn't poor, but not up to BMW standard either. So far, the only attribute that my wife likes about my BMW is the brake. Other than that, she likes her Odyssey.

blkcadillac

I think the new is M is great and will do as well as the G35, also I'm glad Infiniti M35/M45 seem to have all the world class efforts to compete with the E, 5, S stype STS, A6, GS and others... Infiniti has more appeal on pretigous levels than a Acura, and Infiniti is not looked as a good value luxury like Acura. Acura is so like look what I got for less than you in your Benz thats not luxury appeal. When one buys a luxury car it shoud be about I want it and no price really should matter. Doing that is like value cross shopping between Wal-Mart and Target.

lexusguy

I would call 180ft, for the RL's class of car, unsatisfactory. Thats the worst braking in the class, which is by definition, below average. 5,000lb.+ SUVs need 180ft. A sport sedan shouldnt.

alpha01

unsatisfactory for you is fine. I was just trying to highlight that theres a difference between the 30 ft you claimed and the 13 feet that actually separate the two. For the class, yes, its not a good performance. But against the majority of vehicles on the road, its quite good.

~alpha

disaac

I'm shocked there hasn't been more talk about this car. I was just at the Infiniti website and you can now "build" your new M35/M45 (though they make disclaimers regarding price but I suspect the estimates should be pretty close to what the actual car will cost at this point. I have been lurking here and at the RL and GS boards as I am currently contemplating one of the three. I was really impressed with what I saw of the M35/45 concept at infiniti dot com and well equipping the M35 V6 AWD brings it in at around 53K, only somewhat more expensive than the RL. I have driven the RL and loved the way it drove and handled but was taken aback by silly little details that I'm surprised slipped through the cracks and that have been well discussed. At any rate, if the interior on this is more spacious than the RL, I think that this M concept is going to be a monster. Would appreciate thoughts anyone has regarding these three cars particularly from those who are contemplating similar decisions.

alpha01

Take that pricing with a grain of salt. It may be very far off the actual. Nissan is just attempting to gauge how people configure the car, for example. I'm guessing this might factor slightly into initial equipment specs and allocations to different US regions.

~alpha

disaac

Thanks for the insight. I will add though that the number, at least the base price, is pretty much the number my local dealer through out when I asked him about it a couple of weeks ago. I am hoping that maybe, with the former M being a bit of a flail sales-wise, that they'll be looking to make at least the V6 version of the vehicle very price-competitive with the RL.

ceric

Just browsed through many sites in Japanese trying to find performance data but in vain. However, I did find consistent weight info of Fuga. They are
M35-sports: 1680kg (3696lb)
M35-AWD: 1720kg (3785lb)
M35: 1650kg (3630lb)
Note: the Sports model come with HICHAS (active steering). That is why it is heavier.

The heaviest M35-AWD is about 150lbs lighter than RL. Just some info to share. Happy Thanksgiving!

lexusguy

You are correct, I initially misread C&D's chart as 150ft for MB and BMW, rather than 160. I suppose the new car could be conisdered a major improvement over the old one, which according to edmunds went from 60-0 in 141ft. That is so bad its almost comical.

skitzo

I too am in a similar situation, looking to change cars in a few months (back to a 4 door sedan), my choices are in between the new GS, RL, and M.

I have not driven the RL but it looks like it still has a slightly underpowered 6, and the exterior styling is a bit dull for my liking. If they do an A-SPEC pkg, which i'm thinking they will, that may be a little more to my liking. I have dealt w/ Acura service before and it is a few tiers below Infiniti and certainly Lexus. The Lexus I am wholly unimpressed w/ on the outside, hopefully they'll offer a few packages which spruce it up a bit.. maybe that will make a difference to me. The V6 doesnt appear largely improved and wont really compete with the M35 in my *opinion*, and I really think the GS will cater more towards luxury over sport. The Infiniti M seriously appears to me in almost every way, I am disappointed at no AWD in the M45 so I'll have to make a decision there, and there are some other annoying packaging options (sport = no AWD, therefore no rear active steer, etc). I think the infiniti is going to lean far more towards sport than luxury, but will satisfy everyone's requirements. I hope infiniti have truly chosen some design directions as they suggest they have in their PR for the M*, because their models are far too different for my liking. None of the switchgear remains even remotely consistent across the cars it seems, nor does build quality, etc. I think once they straighten those issues out, they will be taken much more seriously in the segment they are trying to really get themselves into w/ the M. My service experience w/ infiniti has been extremely poor as well, but hopefully that will improve as time goes on and they re-establish themselves in a fairly competitive market. Your comment on the "Taken back by the silly little details that slipped through.." is exactly how I feel with a lot of infiniti stuff. They offer some GREAT features but leave out some things that other makers have had for years. Again, hopefully this will all be resolved in the new M.

Hope this offers a little bit of perspective.. but..

ceric

I, too, was disappointed that AWD is not available on M45. However, the words are that they don't fit in the engine bay. It seems to be the same case for Lexus GS (where AWD will only be available with GS300). The only choice seems to be the A6 4.2 Quattro.

Skitzo, with all the features information of the new M available on infiniti sites, which features do you think are missing and important to your buying decision?

On a side note, in Japan, there are many features available on Fuga that will not be available here on the new M. To name a few
- rear-side view camera under the side mirrors
- comfortable passenger seat with lower leg support
- great interior color combinations (specifically I found the one with black wood and wheat leather very distinct and elegant.)
- real-time traffic on NAVI (able to factor in the traffic congestion in plotting the route. NO, the one on RL can't do that yet!)
- hi/low speed intelligent cruise control (ICC). Most ICC today are for high speed only (>40km/h). The one on Nissan Fuga can handle 10-40km/h for tracking the car in front of yours in congestion. I am not sure Infiniti would bring this feature over the Pacific. BTW, The one on the new Toyota can even handle 0-40km/h! i.e. it will STOP for you automatically if the car in front of you stops. (see if the new GS will have this). Nissan, however, cite safety reasons and chose not to allow that...

skitzo

Wow, this is great information, actually. I am VERY disappointed the rear-side view camera wont be available (where do you get this info, btw?)

As for comfortable passenger seat - where are you getting that opinion from, too?

I am somewhat bothered by my ICC in my FX45, it lacks a lot. Apparently Japanese makers use Laser, others use Radar. I am particularly disappointed w/ Infiniti's implementation although I have not really tested others. The infiniti is NOT precise enough as it stands, sometimes it will haul up onto the rear of a car then decide to stomp on the brakes.. its a bit bizarre. It occasionally decides a semi in a nearing lane is in your lane and throws a fit, too. All a bit disturbing for the whole driving experience.

The lexus will have the FRONT "active steering" (as a collision avoidance system) which should be impressive to see, the RL has their super-duper AWD system which I have yet to test/compare to nissan/infiniti ATTESA.

I dont understand why foreign makers have all these great features in their overseas counterparts but dont bring them here.. but I have a feeling they are protecting us from ourselves and our lawsuit happy country. 'Benz in europe have integrated NAV/TV/DVD, etc, I believe... I dont think we'll ever see that here due to regulations among other things.

One of my other pet peaves about Nissan/Infiniti is their obnoxious 90MPH cruise control limit which I fear will make it into the new M, too.

gsedanman

From the sites I've read, the AWD won't be available in the M45 (space constraints), but the rear active steering will. Yeh.....

skitzo

I too am in a similar situation, looking to change cars in a few months (back to a 4 door sedan), my choices are in between the new GS, RL, and M.

I have not driven the RL but it looks like it still has a slightly underpowered 6, and the exterior styling is a bit dull for my liking. If they do an A-SPEC pkg, which i'm thinking they will, that may be a little more to my liking. I have dealt w/ Acura service before and it is a few tiers below Infiniti and certainly Lexus. The Lexus I am wholly unimpressed w/ on the outside, hopefully they'll offer a few packages which spruce it up a bit.. maybe that will make a difference to me. The V6 doesnt appear largely improved and wont really compete with the M35 in my *opinion*, and I really think the GS will cater more towards luxury over sport. The Infiniti M seriously appears to me in almost every way, I am disappointed at no AWD in the M45 so I'll have to make a decision there, and there are some other annoying packaging options (sport = no AWD, therefore no rear active steer, etc). I think the infiniti is going to lean far more towards sport than luxury, but will satisfy everyone's requirements. I hope infiniti have truly chosen some design directions as they suggest they have in their PR for the M*, because their models are far too different for my liking. None of the switchgear remains even remotely consistent across the cars it seems, nor does build quality, etc. I think once they straighten those issues out, they will be taken much more seriously in the segment they are trying to really get themselves into w/ the M. My service experience w/ infiniti has been extremely poor as well, but hopefully that will improve as time goes on and they re-establish themselves in a fairly competitive market. Your comment on the "Taken back by the silly little details that slipped through.." is exactly how I feel with a lot of infiniti stuff. They offer some GREAT features but leave out some things that other makers have had for years. Again, hopefully this will all be resolved in the new M.

Hope this offers a little bit of perspective.. but..

gbabaluk

Just went to the Infiniti.com site and a loaded M45 Sport without the "techno-crap" was $49,600US!
Not a bad price for a V8 Sport sedan with options that mean something to me!
Gotta get me one of those for sure! Can't see getting the M35 as I already own a G35 and all wheel drive is unnecessary even up here in the snow.
Have a great day everybody;
Babs

skitzo

DOH! Just noticed this.. :

http://nissannews.com/multimedia/concept2005/m45_concept/colour/0- - - - 9_m45_concept.jpg

Notice the "A" on the window switches only appear on the front two. My FX has auto down on all 4 windows, and the "A" appears on all 4 switches. I hope this isnt the case?

* Update:

Just found ANOTHER pic..:

http://nissannews.com/multimedia/concept2005/m45_concept/colour/0- 3_2006_m.jpg (look at the driver's seat in that, is it just me or does it look like they got a branded hide?)

This one appears to be auto on all 4. What gives? Also, notice the totally different center console arrangement between the seats.. this one does not have the seat climate control, and some other mysterious button I can't figure out (center).

According to google (go google!), infiniti AFS returns some matches for Infiniti's advanced front lighting system so I could see that button perhaps pertaining to that.. not sure, though. The center button could be suspension related, but is still bizarre.

... But now that I typed all this, perhaps it's for a rear-sunshade.. duh...

ceric

Skitzo, you pretty much can find all available info on Fuga (save some official options and pricing - go to nissan.co.jp for those).
http://response.jp/GIGAINDEX/recent/1443.html

I am not a big fan of intelligent cruise control myself. I drive my BMW 540iA 99% of the time in SF Bay Area. I will not option for ICC.

Based on my technical background, I would say Radar probably would make more sense than Laser in this application. It is an interesting topic for me to find out the pros and cons.

skitzo

I don't see an english version.. ?

I ran across an article somewhere stating that radar is better used for congested traffic situations and is more accurate at sensing smaller objects (motorcycles).. it also mentioned that european manufacturers use radar, japanese use laser, and laser is considerably cheaper to implement. Not sure if there is any validity to this. Will poke around for the link.

ceric

Skitzo:
The seats on the M-concept have controls near the center console (sort of carve-out from the seats). That is no longer so on Fuga. I would expect our M to be very similar to Fuga except for some choices made by Infiniti staff and (left-right hand drive difference). The point is that stuff on M-concept is out-dated. Don't read too much into those photos. The photos on the link I posted above are more realistic. There are many models of Fuga in Japan. Only the higher-end models would make it to the US.
Yes, some advanced features wouldn't be here for (1) reliability (2) law suits(8-)). Anyway, the choices are made by Infiniti staff to position the M at certain price point.

The buttons on the center console are mostly seats temperature control related.

skitzo

The reason I am paying a particular amount of attention to these photos is they are recent publications from nissan/infiniti so i'd like to *think* they are somewhat of a realistic preview of what is to come...

2008

I'm currently driving a nissan maxima (2003) I'm definately ready to make that leap to the next level. The choices are between the upcoming 2006 m45 and the lexus gs 430/300. I'm not letting pricing get in the way I'm looking for driving fun factor and luxury toys inside and abosulute drop dead good looks. I kinda think the m45 has the upper hand at this point, but so many of my lex friends say i'm making a big mistake. Can you guys give some un-biased opinions on the way i should go. (lex or infinity)

lexusguy

You really have to drive both of them, I think. If it was vs. the old GS430, it would be an easy answer, Infiniti all the way. I really dont know just how much sports car Lexus is willing to infuse into the new car. Features on both cars are very similar. I think the GS430 in black with the dark red wood looks a little drab, but the car looks very classy with the light parchment leather. If you want black inside, I would say go with the M45 and aluminum there.

Both cars should hit about the same time, so that should make the decision a bit easier.

jrock65

"but so many of my lex friends say i'm making a big mistake."

How can they say this when the cars haven't even come out yet? On the name alone?

disaac

lg,

Is that what you are hearing? My local Infiniti dealership is telling me the Ms will be in in February whereas my local Lexus dealership is telling me the new GS won't be in until at least May and perhaps June. I'm curious because if they truly were coming in around the same time, it would make it much easier but I fear this potential 3 month lag.....

ceric

Daniel, from what I have heard, M annoucement will start on Feb. 28, 2005. Cars will arrive at a dealer near you in early March. Unless Nissan/Infiniti encounter severe technical difficulty with M45, I would expect no delay since Fuga is already on sale like hot cakes in Japan. On the other hand, GS is NOT on sale in Japan yet. I have no idea when it will be here. I haven't been keeping track of it lately.

lexusguy

Infiniti of Philadelphia told me April at the earliest, so I dont know. All I know about GS is either late Q1 or early Q2.

disaac

LG,

We are neighbors! The dealership I was referring to was Willow Grove Infiniti. I guess we'll see. Even if the Lexus doesn't hit the showroom until May/June, if I could just find out the price point of the GS it would probably help -- of ocurse this will not happen because Lexus (and to be fair the others as well) are incredibly secretive about all of this stuff. I will be very impressed if Infinti manages to come in at around $53K for a loaded AWD M35 as their website currently suggests which I would predict would make it very competitive with the RL. I fear that a comparably equipped AWD GS is going to be substantially more expensive but who knows???

05buyer

The Fuga entry into the current Japanese market is great for trial review prior to launching the M in the states. This gets several thousand miles onto the vehicles which is a tremendous feedback process. Not sure that Lexus or any other new platform manufacturer is doing this. I certainly hope that "Infinity Scouts" do scan these forums as mentioned somewhere by a previous posting. Open question, "My concern is that certain interior color/wood options on the standard are not available on the sport option, any news on this out there ???

ceric

"My concern is that certain interior color/wood options on the standard are not available on the sport option, any news on this out there ???
I am afraid so. The interior has three different themes in Japanese Fuga: Dark Wood, Fiber-Aluminum, Japanese Modern. Only the first two will be available in US. The Japanese modern is the one I like with black painted wood plus wheat leather (350XV VIP model).
Even in Japan, the Sports model gets the Fiber-Aluminum interior only. I don't expect that to change here in US.

A gentleman currently living in Tokyo posted his test drive of (350GT) Fuga on another site (sorry, it's against the rule to name it here.). The review was very very positive.

05buyer

Thx for the info, that's unfortunate. I really am interested in the wood paneling instead of the sterile (imo) metalic. Might have to go with the M45 standard and option it out as close to the sport as possible. Great news on the "other site" review, Infinity should be able to hit the homerun with this new platform.

lexusguy

Yeah its too bad they wont offer the piano black trim in the USA. I think it looks gorgeous, and more importantly, its unlike all the other wood\aluminum trimmed cars out there.

ceric

There are a lot of info on Nissan's Japan website.
http://www2.nissan.co.jp/FUGA/top.html

Allow me to give those who don't read Japanese a short intro.
(1) On the same horizontal bar with "FUGA" title, from left to right
(Concept) (Style) (Performance & Equipment) (Safety & Environment) (Specifications & Price) (Accessory)
(2) Move your cursor to each link listed in (1), you would get a second line sub-menu
(3) Click away ... Yeeehaaaa!

BTW, there are two Japanese TV ads commercial of Fuga under "What's New" (the second item).

Hope you enjoy them all.

geechheeman

I was in Narita, Japan this week. Looking out of my 4th floor hotel window, this "vaguely familiar car" was parking. When I saw the rear I immediately recognized it.

I went down and spoke to the owner. He has had it for 3 weeks and says it is the most 'luxury car' he has owned. He also said it was 'one step from the top'.

From the photos on-line I wasn't sure whether I liked it, but on the lot it had presence. It seems the size of the I35 on the outside with a sense of a larger G35 on the inside. The quick tour impressed me with the finish materials.

As he had his mother with him, (with this confused 'what in the heck is this American talking about' look on her face, I didn't keep him long.

He says he enjoys the luxury and handling of the car.

FWIW

proe

Thanks ceric,
   Man, I do not know which model is it, but you have those crazy adjustment on your seat. I mean you can even move left or right.
   I only hope that what we will be getting.

rctennis3811

Is anybody else a little disappointed that the power output was downgraded to 335HP? It's still a lot no doubt about it, but I liked the even number of 340 better....

jim20

I drove the RL at that model's introduction party at a local dealer a few weeks ago. There is a lot to like about this car, including its handling. The one thing that takes it off of my short list is the lack of interior room. I am a little over 6 feet tall and I cannot move the seat far enough back to get comfortable. I am waiting for the new GS and M45 to see what they are like. On what I have seen so far, the new M45 is in front overall. I have not had any dealings with Lexus or Infinity. I have heard that Lexus will come to your house, drop off a loaner, and take your car to the shop for maintenance. If so, that would be a major advantage of convenience.