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Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL

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Comments

  • raherraher Posts: 99
    Once again you have avoided answering questions which you raised in your initial post..that being that the TL has such violent torque steer that the wheel will be snapping in your hands. Was that your experience when your friend let you drive his car? I didn't see that in your remarks. Instead we got the same tired dissertation on physics and torque steer. Your wrists must be hurting terribly from all of that violent torque steer you surely encountered on your weekend drive.
    The point of my response was your major exaggeration on the amount of torque steer in the TL. No magazine reported anything resembling what you are so ridiculously trying to pass off as fact.

    "Are you sure you know what it is...it happens on uneven pavement or with uneven acceleration in turns or sometimes straightaways too."

    Yes, I am well aware what torque steer is. I drove a CRX si for 12 years and that car had torque steer. It was still a very fun car and would stay with any car in tight twisty sections. The torque steer is easily countered by applying power in a smooth fashion rather than stabbing the accelerator. Why would anyone do that in a corner anyway ? Stabbing it at the apex and accelerating out of the corner is another story but even that is manageable. It's the same as a RWD car in terms of managing the rear end under hard driving. My objection to your view is the extreme you go to when describing the torque steer in the TL. I just read a post on one of the other TL boards from a TL owner who said torque steer was barely perceptible in his TL.... it is also barely perceptible on mine. That statement is based on more than a turn at the wheel on a weekend. Your friend must have really been excited with you in the car rambling on about the torque steer in his TL and how he should have purchased a BMW.
    Your comment about the auto week remark is also not accurate. I believe they made a statement that the TL was based on the Accord platform but that torsional rigidity had been increased by 25% in the TL. Perhaps you read a different article.
    One recurring theme I keep seeing in a board titled G35 versus TL is some insecure BMW owner trying to tell people how superior their cars are. It is always nice to know that stereo typing is true when it comes to BMW owners. The interesting part however is that the board titled TL versus BMW is dying. Go over there and rant about the 3 series..this board is dedicated to two new cars which are setting new standards and establishing " ear bleeding heights " as motor week stated. Maybe that wasn't in the motor week article you read.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "One recurring theme I keep seeing in a board titled G35 versus TL is some insecure BMW owner trying to tell people how superior their cars are. It is always nice to know that stereo typing is true when it comes to BMW owners"

    Which insecure BMW owners are you referring to that has been constantly posting about BMW? After all perceived insecurity originates from real insecurity. :)

    The reason that board is dying because the same tired things have now been said across numerous boards. People who might want to buy either the G35 or TL want to find out something about the cars. NOT THE CARS OWNERS or opinions of BMW owners. Seems like in the absence of any BMW owners on this board, there is still the same schtick.

    In the words of Pogo, for those old enough to know: "We have met the enemy and they are us!"
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    "It is always nice to know that stereo typing is true when it comes to BMW owners"

    I wonder if it is still considered stereotyping when there is such a high degree of truth or accuracy to it?

    I have a joke based on that stereotyping but, alas, it'll get zapped (again) if I posted it! Ah, you guys have probably heard it before anyway. It's an oldie but goodie.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    If the shoe fits...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Well I haven't posted in this forum in a quite a while and it seems you guys are still having the same pros/cons of FWD vs RWD. So that fact you need to talk about competitors vehicles, even though nobody has mentioned any competitors vehicles in a while, says something.

    Well happy FWD vs RWD.
  • I dont think this is a pros and cons conversation, this is a The TL is the king - no its not conversation.

    It's an axiom of sports sedans and most true driving enthusiasts will agree that the best sports sedan in the world can not be FWD.

    I drove a CRX for a number of years - 2 of them both si's. The thing Raher misses is that while you can adapt your turn in and throttle control to make for good turning, the back end cant be controled the way it can in a 3 or a G. Start to lose a crx, which had some weak lateral limits, and you can't do a thing except plow and try not to spin out. In a RWD - press the gas and that little fanny comes right around and the accelerating forces are now pushing the car along it's merry apex exit way. It's something you can't live without once you experience it. Crx days are over for me...theres a better way.
  • raherraher Posts: 99
    Maybe you need to read the previous posts regarding how this started. It started with a non TL owner stating that the TL has so much torque steer it snaps the steering wheel out of your hands. I questioned the validity of the statement because I own a TL and the person making the statement doesn't. The reference to BMW owners was probably erroneous on my part..I am not sure the individual doing the posting owns a BMW, he only keeps referring to it's superiority as in "if you want a real sports sedan you'll be looking at a 3 series". It is the same thing I keep seeing on all of the TL related boards from the same individuals. The FWD versus RWD doesn't seem to be an issue with the TL owners...only with the non TL owners...looks like that leads back to the insecurity issue Dr. Freud.
    You have misquoted Pogo...his statement was "we have seen the enemy, and he is us."
    There are no enemies here...only people with differing opinions. Some based on facts and data, others based on pure opinion.
    Thanks for giving us some of your valuable time since you haven't posted here in awhile. Always nice to be judged by the best as in your statement.....

    "Well I haven't posted in this forum in a quite a while and it seems you guys are still having the same pros/cons of FWD vs RWD. So that fact you need to talk about competitors vehicles, even though nobody has mentioned any competitors vehicles in a while, says something."

    Please don't leave before you set us straight as to what we should be discussing here. Let's see, G35 versus TL...no, I still can't find 3 series anywhere in that title.
  • Sorry if you take that as an insult but it is a fact.

    How can you bring a underpowered, undersized car into this conversation.

    I think you should be comparing the S4O to the TSX or Mazda 6.

    This is a totally different class my friend.
  • "The FWD versus RWD doesn't seem to be an issue with the TL owners...only with the non TL owners...looks like that leads back to the insecurity issue Dr. Freud"

    How could it be an issue for a TL owner if he/she bought the car - I hope it's not an issue for you. AS for the sterring wheel jerking out of my hand - it usually was tempered by the traction control that was on quite alot in some sprrited manuevers.

    Look the car is nice but its no King

    see some of the average comments that the G lacks:

    Acura TL Comparisons:
    "The Acura signature grille could easily be mistaken for that of a Toyota Camry Solara." -- AutoWeek

    "[Steering] still lacks the telepathic qualities of the [BMW] 330 or the [Lexus] IS 300." -- Edmunds.com

    "Firmer ride than the Lexus ES 300 and Infiniti I30." -- Consumer Guide

    ^ thats funny
  • Those comments are related to the previous genaration TL-the one I own.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "The Acura signature grille can be easily mistaken for the Toyota Camry Solara"

    I don't think it looks like a Solara. Whats that supposed to be a diss against the TL?

    The car is selling so Honda must be doing something right. The 96-98 TL didn't sell well at the same price range the new TL is selling at now.

    Lastly, As far as comparisons with the IS300 the TL doesn't compete with the IS300 so I don't know where that comparison is coming from. They should have compared to the ES300 not the IS300. The IS300 is smaller than the TL.
  • I think you're right - we should comapare more simlar cars like the FWD solara, TL and ES300 and compare the RWD cars - the IS, G, 330.

    They really are separate classes
  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    Not as far as the automotive journalism community is concerned.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Though the TL and G35 are in a different size/power class than the v40, the V40 would be lumped in this group in a comparison.

    The V40 manual with AWD is supposed to do 0-60 around 6.3 secs. This is just shy of what the TL and G35 does and about on par with the 330i. Also, the price-point is very close to both as well. Finally, the size is very similiar to the 3-series, which is considered the Bench Mark in this class. (sorry Chrisboth, but the 3-series is what Infiniti was gunning for when they made the G35).)

    So yes, this car would apply in a comparison.

    With that said, this is supposed to be strictly a TL vs. G35 comparison board.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    The Vovo S40 cannot be compared with the TL. Don't get me wrong I like the interior in the current S40 but my con against that car is the backseat room is minimal from what I have seen.

    If you want to compare the TL with a Volvo compare it with the S60 not the S40.
  • frenchy2002 - The reign of the 2004 Acura TL will be short lived too. Hail the new king, the Volvo S40 T5 AWD 6 speed manual!

    Sorry frenchy, the V40 is a nice near luxury compact, but it really matches against the TSX, Mazda 6, Saaburu WRX. Despite the 6 spd, some turbo power, and a fairly nice interior, it can't stack up to the TL, G35, or 330i. That is what the S60/R models are for. Threats to the "King" - Acura TL are from the past Kings BMW 330 and the G35

    But again this reign might be short lived as the Subaru Legacy GT gets debuted on Friday. Anyone whos has driven a Legacy GT knows they will gladly take on a TL or G35 or 330 in the twisties anytime anywhere. Now that the car has power it's gonna be a new game. The question is the interior? We will see soon enough
  • "Anyone whos has driven a Legacy GT knows they will gladly take on a TL or G35 or 330 in the twisties anytime anywhere."

    Really? The old one? Really? Did yours come with 305/15/18's or was it structurally enhanced by MIT?

    So since acura is a player we now have to compare the G to a volvo 40 and a es300? Get real...those are commuter cars
  • chrisboth - The Legacy has always been a well balanced car with a great chassis that deserved more power. Since 98 the same chassis in Japan has supported 240HP. The mags have frequently said great steering feel, good balance, very composed over rough surfaces, very tossable. The rub has always been power. Now I am not saying it is luxury or anything resembeling nice, but they have always been a great drivers car.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    The upcomming V40 is much bigger, and would be considered in the entry-level luxo sedan comparisons with the TL and the X-type.
  • "The mags have frequently said great steering feel, good balance, very composed over rough surfaces, very tossable."

    I think its a great car - like a passat or 325 even - but you compared it to a 330i or a G35, the benchmark for entry lux sedan handling - perhaps I should re-read what you wrote..

    PS the Mits Outlander we just got gets 240 hp in japan too -but it's no G35.
  • The only thing TL lack is rwd feeling, other than that:
    0-60,0-100,1/4 mile, slalom 600 ft test Stats are good
    Sales good
    G35 sedan sales in Jan'04 3382 units & in jan'03 2474 units
    TL04 sedan sales in jan'04 5036 units & in jan'03 3279 units
    both TL and G35 sales are up but TL's up much greater.
    Features and amenities is the best in class
    Snowy, dry, slalom like road alwasy good but "maybe" not for winding road, just maybe lol
  • Who said the G was the Benchmark for handling or one of the benchmark for handling?

    The car came out a few years ago and already it is the Benchmark?

    I think you are going a little bit overboard with this car.
  • I think the proof is in the pudding - I'm not overboard - i think I'm simply suggesting that the TL dethroning the G as the benchmark is overboard.

    You want to tell me which car you think the benchmark is? The one that dethroned the 3 series is prob the place to start looking...

    It doesn't take time to beat a benchmark - so I take issue with the 2 years comment. It only takes a better handler than the past benchmark, a faster car in 1/4 mile or 0-100, perfect balance and world class brakes that even the Italian supercars can't quite duplicate. The G has these - the TL has 1 or 2. The beemer has all of them and some of them at slightly lesser levels than the G.

    I'd say there could be 2 benchmarks and the TL is still no one of them. Sorry but look at ALL the performnace numbers - 0-60 is not a lot to hang your hat on. Put those fatty tires on a G with stock 215's and watch that Slalom go to 70 - and my front tires wont hate me or scream thier way through it either...
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    Chrisboth, the G35 is a great car, and one I would strongly consider if purchasing a new car now, but it is not the benchmark.

    The BMW 3-series/5-series is.

    Lexus IS300 - used the 3-Series as a benchmark
    G35 - Used the 3-Series (and possibly the 5-series) as a benchmark

    Acura TL - Used the 5-Series as a benchmark.

    Would I rather have a 3-series over a G35, do not know, but right now the 3-series is the standard bearer.
  • raherraher Posts: 99
    The Verdict
    The moral of this story is that, if you leave a large enough target exposed for a prolonged period of time, somebody with big aspirations and a fistful of darts is bound to hit the bull's-eye. Score 50 points for Team Infiniti in this round. The G35 is finally the car that outperforms, underprices, and outshines the longtime bogey BMW 3 Series. Eventually, we'll be treated to a manual transmission--first in the G35 coupe, and later in the sedan. When that happens, who'll care a darn about the taillights except for the BMW you just smoked?
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Motor trend quote: two years old and they did not quite hit it on dead center. If according to Motor Trend, the G beat the 3. According to CR the Acura beats the G. Let's see: if a=b and b=c, ergo a=c. Got it. The fact of the matter is, by every comparo, there are no tail-lights to be seen by either vehicle, and the 3 is still on top.

    Oh well.
  • Benchmark is still BMW as a whole supported by its M,5,6,7 series.

    I dont see any car which trying to look like G35. I know TL look 530 as its benchmark.
    Features and amenities are far less than BMW and even lesser than TL.
    G35 sells a lot lesser than TL (TL 5036 units vs G35 3382 units in jan 2004).

    0-60 stats TL better in most of test.
    Slalom test 600 ft, TL win easily,dont need to modify anything to reach that result while G35 need bigger tire or whatever it takes. (Standard vs Standard). There is no test yet about TL with 300+ hp A-spec

    BMW still strong in sales because of its 325
    As company wise, Nissan is at the same class like Honda and Toyota but it ranks 3rd.

    If G35 is the benchmark, Honda, toyota will drop it's sales, its 0-60 result, its slalom test, drop its interior just to be like G35. Even pricing. Is this the benchmark we are talking about?

    Winning 1 thing doesnt mean becoming the benchmark.
  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    "If according to Motor Trend, the G beat the 3. According to CR the Acura beats the G."

    The correct equation is TL>G>3 : )
  • Picked the G over TL and 325. TL smoked every car with a 5.7sec sprint to 60. I haven't seen any published test where the 330 has managed anything better.

    Acura did benchmark the 5 Series, but the out going one, not the new UGLY Bangled 5er. I wonder how long before Bangle works his 'magic' on the 3 series, and spoils one of the best looking Bimmers ever. Single handedly Bangle has destroyed BMWs traditional looks and replaced it with an ugly butt, 6 series included
  • kahunahkahunah Posts: 448
    And there's good reason for that. As far as benchmarks go, I think the (outgoing) 540i 6-speed is the world's finest 'regular production' sports sedan. Too bad Chris Bungled it up.
This discussion has been closed.