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Infiniti G35 vs. Acura TL

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Comments

  • How do you figure $7k in difference?

    Edmunds lists the G35 starting at $27,950 and the TL is listed as $32,650. That works out to $4,700. I don't argue that isn't a significant some of money.

    If you don't care about the additional standard features on the TL that are not included in the base G35, then the G35 is a better deal. However, if like me, you wanted all of the items that the TL came with as standard, the TL ends up being cheaper than a similarly equipped G35 ($32,650 vs. $33,550 not including destination charges).

    I wonder how many base cars are available on dealer lots? I remember when I was looking for an IS300 about 3-4 years ago, I had trouble finding any available with the cloth interior here in St. Louis, Missouri.

    Jeff
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    I only mention this example to prove that TL has more then enof pickup and torque. New TL will take the corner just as fast.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "ew TL will take the corner just as fast."

    If the road is smooth and one doesn't give it gas. Not a knock on the TL, only a limitation of FWD.
  • pg48477pg48477 Posts: 309
    "If the road is smooth and one doesn't give it gas. Not a knock on the TL, only a limitation of FWD."

    Different lines in and out the corner, same time.
  • raherraher Posts: 99
    The limitation would again be on the part of the driver. Never have bought the argument that RWD goes through a corner faster than FWD..torque steer or no torque steer. Drivers go through corners faster, not cars. FWD is different maybe but not necessarily slower. The race photo that fedlawman posted awhile ago showed a TSX going through a corner at the same speed as the BMW's behind it. If the car was inherently slower then the TSX should have been in the back of the pack but it wasn't. Drivers are fast or slow..not cars. Fast drivers adjust to handling characteristics of cars.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    IN racing its more of a preference. Tuners and drivers can take away any advantage. The street tuned car however is what we drive right. Overengineering to compensate for a fundemnatal weakness is not something i want to have in my street car. Tl handles great but balance is balance and fun with a hanging rear is the way to drive my fun roads.
  • raherraher Posts: 99
    I am not quite sure what over engineering is. How does that differ from engineering ? If you mean engineers have designed an improvement to compensate for an inherent problem ( not a weakness since FWD has many benefits )that is still engineering and is what is done with any automobile. Was the design of disc brakes in place of drum brakes over engineering ? No, it was an engineering improvement just as Honda engineers have made an improvement to compensate for certain attributes of FWD.
    Personal preference for having the rear end hang out doesn't necessarily make that the end all for everyone and having the rear end break loose is not balance, it is a loss of control. Balance would be NOT having the rear end or front end break loose.
    As is always the case.. to each their own in the way they have fun with their cars.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Posts: 1,031
    I own a G35 and I was wondering if I could ask you something. Could you e-mail me?
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I think overengineering has something to do with making midnight coffee runs and oversteering thru every corner.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    You guys are getting to know too much! I haven't mentioned the coffee runs lately as they seem to be misunderstood and I can just imagine having to search in my rear view on the blue route for someone trying to catch me doing something illegal while i sip my wawa coffee.

    RCTENNIS are you with the state police or NHTSB? LOL

    ok overengineering is not a great term. FWD has advantages but they cant seem to make up for the fact that when you push the gas it makes the weight shift back to wheels that do nothing.

    I wont dog the FWDers for more than they deserve but a greatly engineered FWD is never better than a greatly engineered RWD. For handling anyway
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    designing something to be better than it needs to be. For example, most manufacturers (domestic anyway) want their suppliers to design for 10 years and 150,000 miles. At that point, if something needs a major repair or overhaul, most consumers aren't going to be mad about it. If one designs for 15 years and 250,000 miles, the product is going to be heavier and/or more expensive than it needs to be. Overengineering is not a term I would use to compare two different design approaches like FWD vs. RWD.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    how about overachive - the TL is a great FWD car becasue the overachiveing engineers at honda make up for the inherent balance deficiency rather well....better?
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I think the prime example of overengineering (in view of Imacmil's definition) is the big bucks SUV's such as Land Rovers, ML, Touareg, since 95% of the owners will never use more than 50% of their engineered capabilities.
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    "Most enthusiast magazines have picked the G over its competition, and specifically over the TL primarily due to it being RWD (better handling) and having more grunt at the bottom of the rev band. Another common complaint about the TL is the torque steer that every publication has experienced."

    - Actually, in the Auto versions, Car and Driver rated the '03 TL ahead of the G35 in "Waiting for a Bimmer Beater" (should make KDShapiro happy).

    Yet with manuals, the G35 w/ sport beat the '04 TL. The TL was faster though, had as good, if not better skidpad numbers, and was one of the quickest, if not quickest of the group through the avoidance manuevers, posting a faster speed than the G35.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    Let's face it, by their own admission the car mags are evaluating handling at the limits of their capabilities. 95% of "normal" drivers are never going to notice the difference between FWD and RWD in the kind of driving we do.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    Yeah but the 52/48 for G vs 60/40 TL is noticeable very day if you are aware of your automobile...and that diff is because of RWD/FWD format.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    Yes, I'll notice and appreciate the 60% weight on the front (driven) wheels when there's a couple inches of fresh snow on the roads! Don't know where you are located but here in the midwest, there are very few roads in which the superior handling capabilities of RWD will be noticeable. I'll stand by my contention that for 95% of the driving that 95% of the drivers do, the G35's superior handling capabilities would be unnoticeable.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I second what Imacmil said. I think a lot of people that sing the praise of RWD only think, or would like to think that they can and do appreciate the handling advantage.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "I think a lot of people that sing the praise of RWD only think, or would like to think that they can and do appreciate the handling advantage."

    Wow, that's a lot of thinking!!!
  • jpiatchekjpiatchek Posts: 177
    "95% of normal drivers are never going to notice the difference between FWD & RWD in the kind of driving we do." I don't know what normal means, unless it means driving like my grandma. If you do any kind of spirited driving at all there is a noticeable difference. Have you both driven 6speed TL's and G35's? The difference is more than thinking.In any kind of spirited driving the TL will almost jerk the wheel out of your hand if you power hard too soon in a turn. If you are not ready it can be scary. The steering in the TL is lighter and less precise and has less feel of the road. The feel and balance simply isn't there. It doesn't have confidence inspiring feel of the G35 when driving hard. That being said--I bought a TL. I like it, it's a great car for the money, it has a lot of other virtues, but precise handling and balance is not it's strong suite when comparing to the G35. I have other RWD or AWD vehicles if I want to get serious about my driving. To say the difference in feel is imaginary is ludicrous unless one drives like my grandma. Why own a 270 hp car if were not going to drive it the way it was made to be driven? Just get a Camry or an Accord. Please guys, I'll agree with the good points of the TL all day long, but please don't bury your head in the sand and say the handling difference is imaginary. It may not make a difference to you, but there is a big difference. And please, before you guys beat me up real bad, remember I own a TL, too. And please assure me you've done spirited test drives in both-6speeds and automatics of both.
  • danny1878danny1878 Posts: 339
    95% of normal drivers do this. In order to notice the difference, you have to go to a race-track and push the car to the limit or going into a corner at more than 65mph and accelerate as fast as you can after.

    Why own a 270 hp car if were not going to drive it the way it was made to be driven?
    Horsepower doesnt have anything to do with handling but how fast your car is.

    BTW why did you buy the car?
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Re-read the damn posts. No one said the handling difference is imaginary. The point was made that one would only appreciate the difference likely at 8/10th and beyond. And I'm sure your grandma does not drive at anywhere near 8/10th, or probably even 5/10th. And my point was that there are a lot of Walter Mittys out there who believe they can use the advantage of RWD.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I agree that the majority of the drivers out there (those that drive Camrys, Accords, Tauruses, ES330's, SUV's, Minivans, etc.) probably would not know the difference between RWD and FWD.

    But I'd venture to say that the buyers who buy G35's and even TL's would know the difference, and would frequently push the car to sufficient limits where it would make a difference. These are part "performance" sedans, after all.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I'd also say that the car doesn't have to be cornered that hard to feel a difference between RWD and FWD. It can be felt in quick maneuvers that happen everyday. The difference is subtle, but it's there. The feeling of being pushed rather than being pulled. Maybe it's just me.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    "95% of "normal" drivers are never going to notice the difference between FWD and RWD in the kind of driving we do."

    By that logic, 95% wouldn't know the difference between TL and Accord. 95% wouldn't know the difference between Accord and Civic...
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    Its me too - i think you have to have driven both for years to even be able to get a real sense of whats going on with any drivetrain. With a rock hard chassis like TL or G35, the feeling or sensation of power comes in very different and, I belive, direct ways. The feeling of being pushed back onto the driven wheels just feels right. It's why most manufacturers are about to or do produce RWD cars in the 30k faimly size lineups now.
  • lmacmillmacmil Posts: 1,756
    Unfortunately, those of us in the midwest don't have a lot of opportunities for spirited driving. My commute to work is 8 miles, 4 miles due west then 4 miles due south, max speed limit is 45 mph. 90% of the roads within a 50 mile radius are north-south or east-west on terrain as flat as a pancake. I sold my motorcycle 5 years ago because there just weren't any fun places to ride.

    Now if I commuted between San Jose and Santa Cruz on highway 17, that's where one can do some spirited driving. I have no doubts that many drivers (even me!) could tell the difference between the TL and the G35.

    I never said there wasn't a difference between FWD and RWD. What I said (and I'll rephrase to make it clearer) is that the typical driver in typical driving situations (e.g., daily commuting) is not going to notice the difference. No doubt there's a difference between the TL and the G35 but probably as much due to suspension and steering geometry as to FWD/RWD.

    Since we seem to be arguing about opinions, which are by definition always correct, let's just end the discussion and move on. Thanks.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Posts: 493
    If thats all i drove i would get a 1995 accord with low miles and keep it for 15 years. I actually go out of my way to find a place and a time to do spirited driving - like 4 am on a saturday. Both are great cars and parsing out the differences is often misconstrued as argiung. Nonne can tell an experienced driver that he cant tell the difference between the two formats at any time..its justification overload
  • kevin111kevin111 Posts: 991
    If you guys are driving either car on the Highway to notice the difference between either car, please indicate which highways you normally drive and times, so I can avoid them!!!!!

    Seriously though, drove both cars back to back (actually, it was the G35 coupe). The G35 felt more stout, but the TL did feel more light and agile, steering was quick which was appreciative between lane changes.

    In hard cornering though, you will notice a difference when the FWD drags the rear wheels around the turn, while the RWD drives through the turn.
  • jpiatchekjpiatchek Posts: 177
    As I said, I like the car and will sing its merits all day long. That doesn't mean that I have to constantly try to convince everyone that it handles as good as the RWD G35, because it doesn't. I have other cars that do that for me. There is a difference that can be immediately felt if someone likes to drive in a spirited manner. I know horsepower has nothing to do with how a car handles. My point was that if you have the horsepower sooner or later you will probably attempt to drive it in a manner where handling is of extreme importance, and if you never drive it that way why bother to pay the extra money and just get a Honda or Camry.My simple point is that there is a real difference and it comes in way before 8/10's of the limit.
This discussion has been closed.