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Toyota Prius

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  • Additional info for your consideration. I've had my Prius for about a month now and driving 33 miles each way from Southern Illinois to St. Louis, Missouri. All but aprx. 2 miles of the drive is on Interstate highways. I typically use the cruise control set at 60MPH. I do frequently hit a stop and go situation during rush hour for a few miles in St. Louis but I've been averaging about 46 miles per gallon.

    I recently refueled at a Phillips 66 (not my usual brand) and saw a slight decrease in average MPG the last couple of days to 44-45MPG. This could also be related to the colder weather since the refuel but I'm just not sure yet.

    Anyway I thought you might find this info useful since it's within your region of operation.
  • "You might want to check out several other real experts such as the recent Car and Driver Prius evaluation"
    Give me a break! Just because a magazine writes about automobiles, who's to say they're real experts? John clearly stated that it was only his "guess" as to the life expectancy of the battery.
  • oldfoxoldfox Posts: 29
    2004 MY Prius? Huh, What? Is this a Joke? Never heard of this.
  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    Any Idea what the crash rating of this vehicle will be...also are insurance rates higher since damage to the battery can be an easy $3000 in replacement cost.

    Mike
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Any Idea what the crash rating

    Don't forget about the accident avoidance data now available for vehicles too. (Some of us prefer not having an accident in the first place.)

    JOHN
  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    Quote from JOHN "The switch from Bridgestone to Goodyear was provide harder rubber. Those original tires wore out very, very fast because they were so soft you could actually leave marks on the road just from making a tight turn. That's a treadwear rating of only 160. The new tires have a treadwear rating of 460, which is a huge improvement."

    Since tire wear appears to be a major problem...tire selection is critical for this vehicle...most snow tires would have soft rubber and thus very adverse wear for this vehicle..

    I assume snow tires with soft rubber compositions are a NO NO for the Prius. This would make alternative replacement tires very difficult as well as limited.

    Does anyone have any experience with using snow tires for this vehicle? Mainly concerned about driving on icy roads. The Goodyear Integrity does not show a good rating for use in snow see TireRack for rating of tires.

    Does anyone know of a good Michelin tire that could be used as a replacement to the Goodyear's?

    Since the small hybrids use relatively small sized tires it appears the tires for hybrids need to be re-engineered for this higher weight small tire combo.

    Thanks, Mike
  • cmsct1cmsct1 Posts: 3
    Tallyid,
    Thanks for your specific information. Your situation is quite similar to mine. Did you have any concerns about the amount of miles you were driving when you made your decision to purchase a Prius? Also, I wanted to thank all of you for your responses relative to this question. They have been most helpful and since I have at least a 3 month wait before making my decision final I welcome any more comments that anyone thinks would be of interest. Once again thanks to everyone for all of their help.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > I assume snow tires with soft rubber compositions
    > are a NO NO for the Prius

    Actually, since treadwear ratings now go all the way up to 800, the much harder 460 still could be considered "soft".

    And sorry, I haven't heard anything about soft rubber being a problem on snow. And since the first December I had my Prius it was the second snowiest Decemeber in Minnesota recorded history, I'd say it isn't a problem. I got through the worst of the snow just fine with those 160's. Perhaps it has more to do with ice instead. (We don't have much of that in Minnesota, since the temperature is well below water's melting-point most of the winter.)

    JOHN
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS

    My data is actual.

    And since discrediting someone is by no means constructive, I'm not going to respond...

    Stick to the facts, please.

    JOHN
  • I'm not sure what you mean about "concern" but the mileage to my work was a definite factor in my decision. I wanted to have an efficient vehicle compared to the Mazda B2300 Pickup I was driving. My wife works in the same area and drives a Subaru Forester. I was actually shopping for a Subaru (our 6th) but don't really fit very well in the new seats they're using.

    Became aware of the 2004 Prius during my first visit to a Toyota dealer. I was actually shopping an Avalon at the time. After hearing about it and test driving one at a St. Louis dealership I decided I could live without all-wheel drive. The Interstates are typically clear except for a few times during the winter and since my wife has the Forester I have a fall back during those times. Since that opened up more options and we both fell in love with the Prius we ordered it. I felt pretty confident since Toyota is typically highly rated by Consumer Reports and one of the only automakers rated higher than Subaru.
  • Hi all, a new lurker here. Don't have a Prius yet but a hybrid will be my next vehicle.

    Felt compelled to write after seeing the .cnn news story link dgrayson posted in his message 2097 in which GM's Lutz says hybrids make no sense. This stupid comment, from Detroit which has always maintained that it only builds what the consumer wants, betrays Detroit's head-in-the-sand mentality. http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/06/pf/autos/detroit_gm_hybrids/index- .htm

    Yeah, the improved fuel economy may not pay for the premium of a Prius over an Echo, etc. However, one key overlooked virtue of the Prius is its SULEV emissions rating. Cleaner cars are good news for anyone who breathes. Some of us place a value on that.

    And, to complete the formula, some of us understand that while we only pay $1.50 per gallon at the station, we pay much more in taxes to support the Pentagon and pay more dearly in lives lost protecting the supply of that $1.50 gasoline.
  • dc8527dc8527 Posts: 12
    On Jan 6, 2004, the Prius test expert of EPA (from www.epa.gov) wrote, "Toyota has told us that the 2004 MY Prius
    (which was redesigned) should achieve fuel economy levels closer to the estimated values."

    In mid December 2003, a Toyota rep at 1-800-331-4331 said, "Toyota engineers are investigating into the low MPG concern of cold climate. They will have an answer about mid January."
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Greenfuture:

    > one key overlooked virtue of the Prius is its SULEV emissions rating. Cleaner cars are good
    > news for anyone who breathes. Some of us place a value on that.

    ___The fact is that SULEV/PZEV capability can be made available for just a few hundred dollars on many automobiles. The following list should help show you what is available in this regard. In some cases; it is a particular model of the car in question …

    03 Dodge Ram CNG
    03 Ford E250 Econoline CNG
    03/04 Ford F150 CNG
    03/04 Ford Focus
    04 Honda Accord
    03 Honda Civic Hybrid and GX - CNG
    01-04 Honda Insight
    00 - 04 Nissan Sentra
    03/04 Toyota Camry
    01 - 04 Toyota Prius
    04 Volkswagen Jetta
    03/04 Volvo S60 and V70

    ___There are probably more but these are just what I could find with 10 minutes of searching … and some that I knew about off the top of my head. Even GM will begin to release PZEV rated automobiles in late 04 early 05 … That is if you can believe them?

    ___The manufacturers have simply decided it wasn’t cost effective to install the necessary and slightly more costly HW to make the automobile in question meet the more stringent emission protocols. Probably because the US/Canadian/European consumer would not/does not know about it or has not demanded it for the small amount of additional outlay … Take a look at the Toyota Echo as one example of where even Toyota decided it was not cost effective :(

    ___As for the OT Pentagon commentary, why don’t you take a look at the amount of oil imported into both Europe and Japan from the Middle East vs. what the US imports as an example of how your tax dollars are being spent. Kind of sucks, given we pay the Japanese for high R&D expenditure automobiles, the American manufacturer doesn’t receive a dime, yet the American manufacture employs hundreds of thousands more employees here in the states who pay taxes to pay for all that military … Kind of a circle jerk although Ford is moving things along at a relatively rapid pace into the realms of Hybrid’s and cleaner automobiles. If they could just get their fuel efficiencies up, then I would have hope for them and our own jobs over the longer term :(

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Hello - just a quick and gentle reminder to stay on track (let us not digress to the middle east/oil issue) and cut the personal attacks. As we are all aware and as stated in the Membership Agreement:

    "You understand that the content within Town Hall is based on individual opinion and experience, which may vary significantly from one person to the next. Edmunds.com does not endorse or guarantee the accuracy of any Posting or other content in Town Hall..."

    It is good to get your experience and opinion into the discussion...it is good to question others experiences and opinions. Let's keep it civil.
  • petlpetl Posts: 610
    Don't quite understand the point you are trying to convey "put out a lot of fluff and BS when you have no idea what the answer is". It appears that you don't particularly like the Prius or the people who do. Toyota didn't spend millions/billions of dollars on this type of technology for the heck of it. Although still in the infant stage, this is the future. Companies that refuse to accept this fact will be left far behind. Or, like Nissan they can buy the technology from Toyota. The richest will get richer. Aggravating... isn't it?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > The inpreciseness of the Prius amazes me.

    It's an ANALOG gauge. Even if it capacity didn't change due to temperature, all you'd have is ten blocks to work with. There is no precision with that at all. How's that different from a traditional vehicle? No precision there either.

    That's why you use the gauge on the PUMP instead. Then you know PRECISELY how much gas is being sent to the tank.

    Taking the DIGITAL readout for distance and the DIGITAL readout for gallons, you get PRECISELY what the efficiency was.

    IT'S THE SAME THING YOU'D DO TO GET AN ACCURATE READING FOR A TRADITIONAL VEHICLE ANYWAY.

    You are trying to make Prius different. That won't work though. You fill up when the "Add Fuel" message is shown. It's not difficult.

    One thing that people tend to forget is the fact that rapid filling of the tank can cause an inprecise "full" indication, shutting off the pump too soon. That's true for ANY VEHICLE, not just Prius. But since Prius has a bladder too, it is more likely to happen with it. So, always use the slowest pump setting.

    By the way, here in Minnesota, the pumps are especially tempermental in the winter. They tend to shut off prematurely using the fastest fill speed. It's a pain, especially standing there in the cold, but using the slowest really does help.

    JOHN
  • hans000hans000 Posts: 19
    Wonder if yours doing the same.

    Before interior getting warm (set to 75C, outside 50C), the AC (heat pumping?) kicks in and out every second or so, generating a faint shudder. It's noticeable at stop lights when ICE is not running. It feels like an earth-rumbling truck stopped next to you.

    It could be the AC compressor turning very slowly. The shudder goes away after a few minutes when interior is warm.
  • dc8527dc8527 Posts: 12
    "As for the "advertised MPG", read the fine print. It says the temperature must be between 68F and 86F. We are obviously drastically below that ideal zone right now. All vehicles suffer in the cold; it is nothing new for Prius."

    John, I got the 04 Prius brochure from the shelf in a Toyota dealer's showroom. The fine print does not exist there. Where did you see it?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > The fine print does not exist there.
    > Where did you see it?

    Look on the window sticker. It makes the YMMV disclaimer, lists the variance ranges, and refers you to the testing website for further information.

    JOHN
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Now if "1" means there is 3-4.8 gallons left depending on
    > how cold it is or isn't then the whole accuracy is skewed.

    It's called a NON-LINEAR gauge.

    So that behavior is actually completely normal. Each block does not represent a consistent unit. It varies based on level. This provides greater detail on the high-end.

    JOHN
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