Toyota Prius

pushan

I am in the market for Prius, and I have couple of questions. Hope this board will help.

The sales guy told me that there is no difference between 2005 and 2006 Prius other than a decal on the front side. Is it true? I thought (I may be wrong though) 2006 Prius was improved and the price was raised a little.

The sales guy wanted me to put $500 deposit . I am concerned because I know one of my friend did not get his Sienna for months after the deposit, and the dealer won't refund! Is there any clause that you guys put for refund of deposit.

What is an average wait period from the time of order in US?

Pushan

kdhspyder

We have one unsold '05 and one unsold '06 on the lot. They might vanish immediately tho on Jan 1. There is little difference in the vehicles. MP3 input, backup camera, upgraded NAV system, leather option, slightly higher price, nicer color selection IMO but mechanically they still run the same.

I decided to get mine early, at the end of Nov, inspite of the potential tax advanage in waiting a month. I took the discount immediately iso waiting til Apr '07.

If the dealer won't honor a time limit commitment like 90 days and be willing to refund your deposit then dont do business there. We have 8 orders in hand for delivery in '06 with the expectation that they will arrive by Feb. Some of the deposits were given to us last Oct. If we cant deliver by 3-31 then the client can get a refund if he wishes.

I counsel clients to put down deposits at several stores and whoever gets the vehicle in first wins the client's business. We have never lost in a case like that and noone has ever complained that they had a difficult time getting their deposit back from the other stores either.

Just deal with honorable people and you should have no problem.

fblack

Hey all you Prius lovers!!! Happy New Year!!! My Prius is 26 months old today and the odometer just turned to 38,000 miles. I have been enjoying this car since day one! I am kinda jealous that all the new owners will be getting than nice tax break starting in a few hours. I am happy I was at least able to save $700 in Fed tax when I filed my 2003 return. No issues to report. I will be going up to Quebec City in a few weeks. Current mileage so far this winter has been pretty decent. I am averaging 49.1 this past month. It has been relatively mild so far this year. Once again**** HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

nw_viking

I got a call from my Renton, WA Toyota dealer on Thursday telling me that they had a Silver Pine Mica (light green) '06 with package 8 and carpet mats available early next week. I put my $500 deposit down on Dec 2nd, so I wasn't expecting a call until March. I specified package 7 or 8, any color but White or Black, with the carpet floor mats, glass breakage sensor, and rear bumper applique.

I went to the dealership to check out other Toyotas with same paint color to help me decide. Turned out the Prius had just arrived on lot. Color was OK, but not my first choice. I really liked the dark gray leather though.

The real problem was the lack of rear bumper applique and glass breakage sensor. They aren't critically important to me, but why not wait and get exactly what I want, plus a color I like a bit more?

The Parts dept didn't have the sensor in stock yet, or even a price they could quote. The dealer was willing to commit to installing the sensor when it became available for $200, $35 over the port price. But the rear bumper applique would have cost about $100 more than the port price. I very reluctantly decided to pass.

Has anyone else had good luck getting the port accessories they requested? Should I take the next available pkg 7 or 8 vehicle regardless of accessories, or should I wait to get exactly what I want?

agalas

On the Soltek article it says that Lithium Ion batteries, one placed within a HSD will greatly boost MPG. Does anyone know by how much? What percentage?

Anyway, in the name of idle speculation, here is what I think we can expect from future Prius Generations:

2008: new HSD, drive by wire regen braking, slightly sleeker, more aerodynamic shape, 50 mpg real world mpg as tested by CR, (current version gets 44, although EV world has a vast data base that states 48 mpg)

2012: Fourth Generation Prius, finally gets Lithium Ion, 60 MPG real world mileage as tested by CR.

2016: Fifth generation Prius, with still sleeker frame, Drag coefficeint =.2, Lithium Ion 2 batteries, and 25% carbon fiber construction, real world mileage according to CR 80 mpg.

2020: 6th generation Prius, Drag coefficient =.18, 50% carbon fiber, real world mileage 100 mpg

2024: 7th generation Prius, Drag coefficent =.16, (this is possible, the GM PRECEPT concept has Drag coefficient of .163 and it can be made sleeker http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/gmprecept.html)
lithium ion 3 batteries, 75% carbon fiber body
Real world mileage 130 mpg

2028: 8th generation Prius, all carbon fiber body, drag coefficent .14, super efficient solar panels on the roof and hood charge batteries, allowing the vehicle to travel at up to 60 mph on battery alone, (after 8 hour charge during work day car has 100 miles range on EV alone) Car may also be charged at home, with lithium ion 3 batteries allowing for 300 mile range on EV.

Real world mileage 250 mpg

2032: 9th Generation Prius, drag coefficeint, (approaching optimum levels) .12, super efficent diesel engine, improved Solar cells on car, improve real world mpg to 300 mpg, fuel tank =15 gallons, refills once every 4 months.

2036: 10th generation Prius, Fuel cell/solar charged/plug in battery hybrid, drag coefficient has reached maximum low of .1, solar panels achieve efficency of 40% in accordance with Lithium ion 4 batteries, give EV range 450 miles, with H2 kicking in after wards, real world mileage, 350 miles/kg H2, equivalent of 350 mpg. New H2 storage tanks, rated at at 25,000 psi, hold 25 kg h2 for range of 8750 mile range, fill up every 9 months 2 weeks.

This is as far as my crystal ball can go. Feel free to add your own ideas about the future of the Prius.

fblack

That can be installed anytime. Don't even bother with the applique. It is a thin piece of plastic and not worth the money. If you want, I have an extra one I can give you. Instead, buy the black rubber applique which installs in a snap. You can get it on eBay.

lightfootfl

Gee, do you think we will have to get larger tanks to hold all of the fuel we are saving, or will we have to drain the fuel out of the tank every so often to keep it from overflowing on the road and causing an environmental problem? Dunno, but it looks like a real winner to me either way.

gagrice

Those are some lofty goals you have set out for the Prius. Lets look 20 years ahead and 20 years back.

You would like to see 130 MPG Prius in 20 years. I contend we have gained very little in the last 20 years. We had 50 MPG cars in the Civic size. So we gained a little more room in the Prius and Civic with the same mileage. Of course the Fun Factor went by the wayside. The CRX was a whole lot more fun to drive than the slodgy Prius or Civic hybrid. I think the only chance of the kind of mileage you are hoping for is a Plugin Hybrid. That just diverts the cost from your gas bill to your electric bill.

Some day the Americans will realize there is NO free lunch. You pay for what you get. Whether we spend 10s of thousands more for a car with a gazillion watts of battery power or some pie in the sky hydrogen fuel cell.

midnightcowboy

I just watched the movie "Must Love Dogs" and the guy sure squeals around in his Prius. I didn't know that a slow 0-60 mph car could squeal and slide so much.

An if you think the current Prius is slow wait until you see the performance of a 130 mpg Prius. 0-60 in two days or less.

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S. - Entrophy and solar are the only FREE LUNCHES.

hybrid04prius

Those must be sound effects. I can never get my Prius to chirp as I have some really fancy tires. Good shoes mean better performance. I'd rather trade off a few seconds in 0-60 to get 50 MPG. Only a lunatic drives at 10/10ths and floors it all the time. Hope that ain't you.

fblack

Slodgy?? What does that mean?? I like to think of my Prius as zippy, smart, frugal, fun, green. I see you have a TDI Jetta. Shall I call it smelly, unreliable, un green??

gagrice

I see you have a TDI Jetta.

Actually a Passat. You are free to call it what you like. Using ULSD that it was designed to use, it is very clean, reliable and efficient. I think that you will find that with 3 times the current weight in batteries the plug-in Prius II will not be the very zippy.

gagrice

Slodgy?? What does that mean??

It is my own word to describe a mediocre handling car. Not limited to the Prius. I would consider a hybrid if I had a long daily commute with a lot of stop n go traffic. Not my idea of a fun car to drive on a winding mountain road.

hondamatic

Saw a dealer ad in my local paper for a leftover '05 Prius with Package 4 for $22509. According to Edmunds TMV, this about $700 over invoice. I think this is a good price for this car, what do you all think? I plan to call them first thing tomorrow morning. Hope someone else didn't already snatch it.

I'm guessing the leftover 05's also qualify for the $3000 or so tax credits for Priuses (Priuii?) purchased on or after Jan 1, 2006?

Thanks.

fblack

I guess you have never driven one. I am telling you that this car is not a canyon carver but it sure is zippy in downtown traffic. It really is a joy to drive and has been exceptionally reliable. I wish my VW Bettle could say the same. Luckily that is my wife's car. Nothing but trouble. I love the build quality and handling but will never again put up with the horrible customer service and unreliability. Good luck with your Passat. I suggest you get an extended warranty if you don't want to see your bank account deplete.

fblack

Do not pay over list for a leftover. That is a waste of money and the car is already a year old. Let the dealer get stuck with it. Buy a 2006 from a different dealer and get the $3000 tax credit to boot. If you do buy the 2005 you will still get the credit. The 2006 is not much different from the 2005, but if you really want the 05, pay UNDER MSRP. I mean WAY UNDER.

gagrice

It really is a joy to drive and has been exceptionally reliable.

I did drive the first Prius to hit San Diego. I have gone to 3 dealers in 3 states to test drive the Prius II. None available for test drive. Two of the dealers tried convincing me I would be better off with a Camry. I agree that it is a good around town car for many people. Until they get the supply problem solved it will not become a car for the average buyer to consider.

The hybrids have a serious flaw that would preclude me from buying one. We take off and leave for 3-4 weeks at a time throughout the year. Hybrids do not do well unless started on a very regular basis. I have left my Suburban for over 3 months without starting it and jumped in and took off. The plug-in hybrid would address that problem nicely. It would also solve the problem of poor mileage the first few miles, as it would be running on electric only for our short trips to town. The Passat is on the sales block as soon as it turns 7500 miles. It is more car than is needed for a runabout. Just wanted to try one out. It is fun to drive in the mountains. Maybe some day they will come up with a hybrid that is practical for us. Right now the only new car I have seen that I would buy is the Smart TwoFor diesel that gets 72 MPG around town. Only available in Canada so far.

hondamatic

It looks to be about $1500 under MSRP.
There's usually a gap of about $2000 between invoice and MSRP.

fblack

Most cars have poor mileage the first few miles. Hybrids are no exceptions. I installed a block heater and it is amazing how it positively effects the mileage (for the better). The cost of the electric vs the gas savings make it worth it to do. As an FYI, I did leave my Prius for 6 weeks last summer when I went on vacation. No trouble starting at all. A solar trickle charger does wonders though I didn't need one. My friend has one on his Jetta that he keeps down in Fort Lauderdale. He does it to insure starting as he leaves the car there for months at a time.

I wonder if you are able to buy a SMART car in Canada and bring it to the States. If not, then buy a used one. There has to be a way for that to work. I've seen plenty of right hand Rolls Royces on the road.

Dealers always try to sway you to buy a car that they want to sell. Of course they'll turn you on to a Camry if there is no Prius in stock. When they have tons of Prius, they won't say...don't buy this, buy that. Camry Hybrid coming out shortly. Looks to be a hit with 190 or so HP. I expect hi 30's avg for a nice sized sedan.

vanderhorstg

I'm getting close to ordering/buying my first Prius. We're happy with standard equipment, don't need all those bells and whistles, so will probably go with Package #1 to get the side air bags. How valuable is the VSC feature for someone who lives in the NW? We get lots of rain, but I don't drive in ice or snow unless I have to. Is it worth the additional $1,200 for the next package?

midnightcowboy

VSC is not as important on FWD (Prius) as RWD becuase all it does is keeps you turning when you are going to fast for the conditions. Without it (FWD), you merely slide forward with the wheels locked instead of turning. If you have any ice or sleet at all it would be worth getting.

Hey if you are willing to spend $3,000 for hybrid technology what is another $1,200 for safety technology. Since you are in NW and have ice and snow get the VSC option.

I can't get a Prius becuase I can't drive automatics,

MidCow

fblack

Don't even think of not getting it. I have it on my Prius. All my new cars will have this feature. It is especially helpful in rain! If you are driving on a cloverleaf and happen to be going too fast VSC will save you. It will not eliminate accidents, but it is an extremely valuable safety feature. I can't believe the new Civic does not even offer it. Every Toyota (except the Yari) has it as standard or an option.

pushan

kdhspyer, sincere thanks for guidance.

I just got a call from the dealer who is willing to offer US$2000 discount on 2005 model. The MSRP is around 27K with navigation system, and less than 100 miles on it. Unfortunately, I do not like the color combination they have (Silver with stone interior).

gagrice

less than 100 miles on it.

Just make sure it was never registered. That will kill your tax rebate. It has to be first owner for the credit. You may get to liking the color with the color green you are saving.

kdhspyder

The hybrids have a serious flaw that would preclude me from buying one. We take off and leave for 3-4 weeks at a time throughout the year.

That is not exactly true, Gary. Actually I counsel all my clients, upon delivery, that there are two time frames you need to concern yourself.

A) for 5-10 days of inactivity simply disable the SKS button under the steering wheel.

for a period of more than 10 days of inactivity disconnect the wiring harness up to the positive post in the fuse box. This shut down the whole vehicle.

Oh, BTW, On NYD we went out for a Sunday drive looking for a specific store on the beach. 25 mi each way.. the first 5 min segment in each direction was ~30 mpg but thereafter for the next six segments the bars were no lower than ~52 mpg and several were above 70 mpg and one was at 90 mpg. The SOTP estimate for the 50 mi RT was about 65 mpg.

It was a short highway drive then 25-40 mph on a long two lane beach road.

phaworth

My wife and I go on 3-4 week vacations and leave the Prius at the SF airport. If you disable the SKS button you would be fine. I am not sure where people get the info that the Prius has to be started on a regular basis. We own a 2004 & 2005 Prius.

midnightcowboy

Come on that isn't acceptable for any car. A battery shouldn't discharge is left for 3-4 weeks.

Don't you think that the SKS should be smart enough to automatically disable ?

Isn't the 12 volt battery a normal battery that can start an engine. What makes it go dead in 3-4 wweks.

Surely, this is just yet another Prius software glitch.

Cheers,

MidCow

kdhspyder

Surely, this is just yet another Prius software glitch.

Nope.

Come on that isn't acceptable for any car. A battery shouldn't discharge is(sic) left for 3-4 weeks.


The 5 proximity antennas, if left active, are searching 24/7 for the fob. This causes the 12v to drain. It's the same as leaving a light on for a day or two in a van or SUV.

Don't you think that the SKS should be smart enough to automatically disable ?

No the SKS shouldnt know when to disable itself. Why should it make that choice? It's the operator who should make the decision. If it disabled itself after 24 hrs? or 48 hrs? or 36 hrs? then it defeats its own purpose of convenience of entry.

BTW all SKS systems in the ToyoLex line have this feature for the same reason. It's good engineering foresight.

midnightcowboy

kdhspyder,

You maybe a Totota salesman specializing in Priuses, but I don't agree with your electronic answer. Only a exact technical reference will reestablish you credibility.

"The 5 proximity antennas, if left active, are searching 24/7 for the fob. This causes the 12v to drain. It's the same as leaving a light on for a day or two in a van or SUV"

The electonics should be lower-powered, much less so than a dome light. They should be able to go for weeks or even months before they would drain a battery. With your same logic, suppose all cars with alarm systems disable after 5-10 days. It just isn't true. Neither is a dome light draining an SUV in a day or two.

Even with the small wattage on the Prius 12 volt battery it should have been designed to power the security systewm and SKS for 2 months or longer.

"BTW all SKS systems in the ToyoLex line have this feature for the same reason. It's good engineering foresight. " It is good foresight to have an option that will drain the battery... LOL. There is a reason salesmen are salesman and design engineers are design engineers.

Can't drive Prius because I never learned to drive an automatic,

MidCow

backy

While kdhspyder is working to "reestablish his credibility", maybe you could give us an exact technical reference to prove your assertion of a software glitch in the Prius that is responsible for the battery running down over a period of several weeks if the SKS is not turned off etc.

donzi81

I'd have to agree. Alarm systems left on also drain the battery too. I can tell you of many situations where I've come back to a dead battery due to an alarm issue. It was in an older Acura. If Mr. Midnight can't drive an automatic, why bother chiming in with incorrect information?

sganarelle

"Hybrids do not do well unless started on a very regular basis"


And where did you get this piece of information?

Friends of ours took possesion of their new Prius, drove it for about a month, then parked it on the street in front of their house and went to their appartment in Antibes for three months. Upon returning they unlocked the car, pushed the start button and drove away.

kdhspyder

You maybe a Totota salesman specializing in Priuses, but I don't agree with your electronic answer. Only a exact technical reference will reestablish you credibility.

Well I dont have to reestablish anything because nothing was lost in the first place. I know how the Prius operates even if I dont know the exact specific electromechanical design of each feature. If there are 5 proximity sensors constantly running off the 12-volt auxiliary battery, these will run down this battery over time. How long. That depends on a lot of factors.

If your implication was that I was giving off-the-cuff sales hoohaa you couldnt be more wrong. Physics and math were my background before getting into sales and without specific supporting data one should never open their mouths without first clarifying whether statements are opinion (yours) or fact (mine).

Page 34 of the Prius owner's manual states that the Smart system should be deactived if the vehicle wont be driven for a long time(fact). For safety I tell my clients to do so if the inactive time is over 5 days(opinion).

Before I delivered the first Gen2 Prius in Oct '03 I asked the Master Techs here if there were any special precautions on this new model. They gave me a copy of Toyota TSB #PG007-03 which states(fact):

"The 2004 model year Prius hybrid vehicle is equipped with 2 types of special batteries, the HV (Hybrid Vehicle) battery and the 12-volt auxiliary battery.

If the Hybrid vehicle is put into storage, the state of charge (SOC) of its HV battery and auxiliary battery will gradually decrease. To prevent the battery from deteriorating during storage, proper maintenance is necessary.

Therefore, please perform the following maintenance service for the HV battery and 12-volt auxiliary battery."

It goes on to recommend disconnecting the wire harness to the positive terminal in the junction box if the vehicle is going to be stored for 10 days or more.

Your opinion on the design of the SKS system is noted and will be given the appropriate consideration.

midnightcowboy

My opinion is that a "long time" is much greater than 5 days and less than "..put into storage". You seem to have some confusion between opinion and facts. You 5 day interpretation of long time is not a fact!

And the 10 days you go into "storage" is really a stretch of the facts. Do you also recommend they also drain the fluids, remove the wheels, put the car on blocks. etc. after 10 days ?

Concerning software design of SKS ( for Mr.Donzi81's benefit)if the battery drain cause by the SKS lowers the battery to a low voltage threshold, then the SKS should automatically disable. The car door could still be opened with a key and the smart card could still be inserted into the slot. Then the engine would start after it was left idle for a period of time. Most alarms operate a very low power and do not cause this problem, even a blinking LED is a very low power drain. If an alarm system drains a battery in a reasonably short period of time, then that is also a poor design or a very cheap aftermarket alarm!

A low voltage threshold could have been easily programmed in the software. Is it a software glitch , no not really, but the problem could be fixed with a software patch, so it could be software unglitched.

double sixes,

MidCow

donzi81

From what I have read the SKS disables itself after ten days. If you flip a switch, it turns it off completely. No software issues from what I can tell.

kdhspyder

My opinion is that a "long time" is much greater than 5 days and less than "..put into storage". You seem to have some confusion between opinion and facts. You 5 day interpretation of long time is not a fact!

And the 10 days you go into "storage" is really a stretch of the facts. Do you also recommend they also drain the fluids, remove the wheels, put the car on blocks. etc. after 10 days ?

It's not clear that you understoood what I was saying so to be clear, when you have time to plan:
a. if a Prius is going to be left unsed for a short time such as up to 5 days there is nothing special to do. disabling the Smart function can't hurt.
b. if it is going to be left unused for 5-10 days then disable the Smart function.
c. if it is going to be left unused for longer than 10 days ( a long time ) disable the Smart function and take the wire harness off the positive terminal.

The SKS can disable itself (owners manual) if it's not used in 14 days but that's a failsafe feature; accident, sickness, sudden trip out of town, etc. when disconnecting the wire harness is not feasible.

gagrice

I've read all these and am totally confused. When the Prius II came out a few folks had left their cars for about a week to come home and find the car dead. Would not start. It was said to be the little 12 volt battery. You are saying to disconnect wires etc for longer periods of absence and if you don't the fail-safe kicks in and does it for you after 14 days. Why do anything if the fail-safe does it for me? Then another poster says they left theirs for weeks and it started right up.

All I want is a car I can leave in a parking garage or home for several weeks at a time and jump in and take off when I return. No fiddling with switches, pulling wiring harness off, etc, etc. I don't think that is too much to expect of a modern vehicle.

rpgolfer

Hi gang,
From what I've learned and read from other Prius owners of this thread is that it wouldn't hurt to shut down the SKS system if you're anticipating an idle period. The aux batt is not like a regular car batt, it only needs to provide the "oomph" to start the computer, not the engine. The computer decides when the ICE is to be started to either add power for uphill driving, acceleration, A/C and heater usage. If Toyota can come up with the technology to cread HSD, I'm sure they wouldn't overlook an important detail such as batt drainage. How embarrasing would it be to someone who relishes the high tech aspect of such a vehicle only to return to the airport parking lot to find their car dead? I think a little planning and foresight is in order to prevent such an occurance. BTW, I just passed 23k miles in the 23 months I've owned my car. Other than a couple of recalls and loose upholstery on the console (repl under warr), I can't complain.
Thanks,
Rich

donzi81

Been following the thread for a while as I am in the market for a commuter car. I test drove the Jetta diesel and did not like the harshness of the engine. I did like the handling and refinement. I then drove the 2.0 ltr direct injection with DSG and was impressed. Only thing that turned me off was the repair history and horror stories. I have good luck with cars but it is hard to overlook that. I was extremely impressed with the Prius. Handling is decent, car is very quiet and I loved the CVT. 90% chance I'll go with the Prius. I priced out the Jetta and the Prius and with the tax credit it was a no brainer. Thanks for this board, it provided lots of information. I won't have to worry about two week idle times as I will be using this car lots. I don't know anyone who owns a Prius, but I have been looking on other boards and no one has had a problem starting after two or three weeks.

fblack

If it is any comfort I have never had any starting issues. I once left it at the airport in the dead of winter for two weeks and it started like it was never on hiatus. Great car, no issues. VW makes great cars but they are not as reliable as Toyota in my experience. Good luck and let us know how you enjoy the car.

donzi81

Thanks Fblack. I am picking up next week and will post my impressions later on. Ironically, I am actually going on a cruise in 3 weeks, so the Prius will have its first test of two weeks without starting in the dead of winter. Should be interesting.

donzi81

In case anyone here is interested. Look at what I found!

http://www.hybridtravelers.com/pressreleases.html

I may have to check out their rates as I am picking up next week.

With the generous credit from the feds and now insurance companies giving 10% discounts, I feel very special

I am happy to be part of the hybrid community.

explorerx4

sounds like the real question is does your friend's prius have the 'smart key' feature?

cbs4

The 2004+ thread is 323 pages long, and currently has ranged so far from the topic of Prius buying and leasing experiences as to be unrecognizable.

Is it possible for the moderators of the Prius threads to make a new topic that just focuses on the Prius buying experience? That way, one doesn't have to wade through arguments about whether the SKS is smart or not?

I know I'm new to posting here, but quite a few months ago, the Prius prices paid forum seemed more structured and focused, and I found it to be INVALUABLE in saving me from buying a Prius in 2005, in anticipation of the passage of the Energy Bill (which hadn't even passed, nor was it signed by the President yet).

I really would like to thank Edmunds, the moderators, and most of all the very astute members of this website for sharing the heads up I needed to make the decision to wait for Jan 1, 2006, in order to qualify for an approximate $3,000 direct tax CREDIT, instead of a $2,000 tax deduction that was equivalent to only a $300 tax savings in our tax bracket.

I'd like to find a forum on this site to help others buy a Prius in appreciation and in return for the help I've received here.

But 2004+ thread has drifted on to a topic that is not conducive to discussion of how and where to get a 2006 Prius, before the window of the tax credit, as well as the window of the HOV lane, both limited to x numbers of units sold, close down for good.

Is it possible to start a new discussion just focusing on purchasing experiences?

cbs4

Do you think that demand will increase for the Toyota Prius during the first 6 months of 2006, in no small part due to the substantial two part tax credit?

I think it might, due to pent up demand from those that knew of the forthcoming tas credit in late 2005 and postponed their planned Prius purchases until after the first of the year.

Of all the cars that qualify for some portion of or combination of either the Fuel Economy Credit and/or the Conservation Credit, it appears that qualified purchasers of the Prius stand the most to gain in obtaining the maximum amounts of Tax Credit offered, which estimates have ranged from a low of $2,750 to a high of $3,400... with the most experts calculating around $3,150.00.

That's in tax credits, not tax deduction. A huge increase over the $2,000.00 tax deduction offered in 2005, which in my tax bracket only would have netted to a $300 tax benefit. The approximate $3,150.00 tax credit for 2006, however nets to a $3,150.00 tax benefit for me, assuming no liability for AMT.

This is huge!

And it is time limited!

The full credit can only be expected for the first 2 calender quarters of 2006. By summer, the tax credit could be reduced by 50%, and by fall or winter, it may be reduced by 75%. By spring of next year, no credit period.

To elaborate further on the credit limitation, this is due to the language of the Energy Bill which sets forth a "phase out" period, and also sets a cap on the total vehicles sold per manufactuer that can qualify for the credit.

Essentially, the "phaseout" period begins with the second calender quarter following the calendar quarter where Toyota exceeds 60,000 qualified units sold.

(See Energy Tax Incentive Act of 2005, Subtitle D- Alternative Motor Vehicles and Fuels Incentives, Section. 1341. Alternative Motor Vehicle Credit, Paragraph (f) Limitation on Number of New Qualified Hybrid and Advanced Lean-Burn Technology Vehicles Eligible for Credit, Sub Paragraph (2) PhaseOut Period...)

Since Toyota manufactures not less than 3 popular Hybrid vehicles (the Prius, the Highlander, and the Lexus 400h), and is soon to introduce a fourth hybrid (the Camry), it appears that the 60,000 unit mark of qualified vehicles will very easily be reached or exceeded before June, 2006.

{To put vehicle unit building numbers in perspective, Ford manufactures about 350,000 F-series trucks a year.}

Toyota seems to anticipate reaching the 60,000 unit mark relatively quickly, since on the Hybrid Vehicle Tax Credit page on their website, they caution purchasers to be aware that "hybrid tax credit amounts will begin to be reduced for deliveries... after either June 30, 2006 or September 30, 2006."

It is easy to see that the either June or September reduction is directly the result of the language of the new law, which applies reductions after the second quarter following the quarter in which the first 60,000 qualifying units are manufactured.

So to get the full credit, get the Prius as soon as you can. There is a very clear sunset for this credit, especially for Toyota, which offers more qualifying cars than any other manufacturer.

I called my dealer at home on his cell phone at 9:30 AM on New Year's day! By January 2, we had a deal on the exact Prius I wanted, right color, right package, at a couple hundred dollars below MSRP. The bank didn't open until Jan 3, but by that evening, I had my Prius bought and hiding at a neighbor's house. On the morning of Jan 4, I presented it as a surprise gift to my wife.

She had needed a new car for the last 6 months, but thanks to the internet and forums like this one, I learned about the then only proposed tax credit laws discussed in this post. I postponed my purchase until the first eligible day, and then got right on it.

If it weren't for forums like this, I'd have never known of this benefit. Now that I have benefited, I just wanted to pass along the information to others, so they too can act with precision, and not get caught hearing about it when it's too late.

gagrice

Ford manufactures about 350,000 F-series trucks a year.

Slight error. Ford sold over 900,000 F series Ford PU trucks by the end of 2005. They sold close to 1 million last year. Same for GM who sold a few more than Ford. Ford sold more PU trucks than all the Camry, Corolla & Prius combined.

donzi81

________>>> Or put another way, Ford sold more F-150s than total US sales of Mercedes and VW combined, with some left over. I guess they have to do something to keep their stock going below ten dollars

pushan

I decided to go with the color and package I wanted and declined the offer on 2005 model even though it seemed attractive offer.

This dealer told me that he will forfeit the deposit if I did not buy the car from them for any reason!

Sooo... I went to another dealer locally who signed me up without deposit. The estimated delivery time (in Columbus, OH) is about 4-12 weeks.

sganarelle

"sounds like the real question is does your friend's prius have the 'smart key' feature?"

Indeed, yes.

bertinnc

I am planning to take my new Silver Bullet to Canaan Valley Ski Resort in WV and know that those little mountain roads can be pretty steep. Do you think this little car can carry four people up the mountain? Does it have enough horsepower? Should we leave it at the bottom of the moutain and have our truck take two trips carrying everybody to the lodge?