Toyota Prius

jchan2

I would at least think that being as big as the Camry, it would at least drive like a Corolla. (which is buttery smooth)

john1701a

nippononly likes to make claims without providing detail to support them. Being vague, especially when it comes to *ACTUAL NEEDS*, is the key.

> Echo-like handling

What basis can that assumption be made? The new Prius doesn't resemble an Echo in any aspect of size, shape, or weight. A Corolla or Camry would be a closer match.

JOHN

nippononly

I dislike your tone, I honestly do...why do you pick on other posters so much? I made no claim at all - I preceded the post with a big "probably". I think it is probable because it will still ride on tires that are narrow when compared to other similar-size cars, or to its own height.

And I have never made one single reference to anyone's "actual needs" as you have so prominently asserted.

If I didn't know better, I would think you had a financial stake in the success of the Toyota Prius. or perhaps I don't know better, and you do?

john1701a

 
Camry SE
---------------------
Length: 189.2 in
Width: 70.7 in
Wheel Base: 107.1 in
Curb Weight: 3186 lbs

 
NEW Prius
---------------------
Length: 175.0 in
Width: 67.9 in
Wheel Base: 106.3 in
Curb Weight: 2890 lbs

 
Corolla LE
---------------------
Length: 178.3 in
Width: 66.9 in
Wheel Base: 102.4 in
Curb Weight: 2590 lbs

 
Echo
---------------------
Length: 164.8 in
Width: 65.4 in
Wheel Base: 93.3 in
Curb Weight: 2105 lbs

 

john1701a

> I would think you had a financial stake

I DO! EARTH! For those that choose not to take care of it, they should get off. <hehehe>

Actually, since I haved owned a Prius for just about 3 years now and 56,220 miles, I know for a fact that claims about inadequacies for the average consumer are not true.

> why do you pick on other posters so much?

This group (the hybrid forums here) has always had a hostile tone compared to the others available. Why? I have no idea. So I chosen to use this use this group for sparring. That results in great ideas, lots of good material for the handouts other owners like to share. In other words, I find debating rewarding. It's good practice for when the in-person encounters occur.

Other groups aren't like that. In fact, I'm not even like that on other groups. And the moderators seem to enjoy the seemingly harmless banter we churn out here.

JOHN

revka

Hi Everyone - Let's avoid making each other the subject of discussion, and keep the focus on the subject of the 2004 Toyota Prius. Thanks!

Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards

jchan2

I think that the new Prius would be closest to the Corolla in terms of ride and handling.

yerth10

Because the Prius-2004 is a hatchback model, it has the same
cargo capacity as Camry and in front & rear shoulder & legroom
also it comes closer to Camry and much bigger than Corolla.

The real advantage of hatch is that the trunk is as tall as the car's
roof and so a shorter trunk will match the capacity of sedan's larger trunk
Also I guess the bonnet of Prius-2004 is somewhat shorter than Camry.
In all Toyota has done a nice design.

At 20k, it has the same price of Camry while getting nearly 100 %
extra mileage. Prius-2004 should get the return on investment.

jchan2

Sounds like a good deal. Hope many people trade in their whopping Hummer H1s to drive this environmentally friendly car. Wonder if Bill Ford will buy one. (He's the type who would buy a car to help save the Earth)

preprius

I went to site, but did not find area to order a new Prius. Does anyone know? Also, will all dealers offer the car at the same price and how do I know if I'm too late or not to get by Oct or Nov.?

Thanks a lot in advance!

Preprius!

john1701a

The early order opportunity has expired (and it was only available for those that went through the same to purchase a 2001 or 2002 Prius).

Now you just go to a dealer directly and place an order. There are twice as many (6) option packages available now too.

> same price

Toyota probably won't be forcing price limits this time around. Dealers will have the freedom to price as they see fit. But I don't expect to see that happening until they can be purchased off the lot rather than ordered. (My local dealer always slashed a few hundred bucks off the sticker price.)

> by Oct or Nov.?

Who knows. Lots of orders have already been placed. (I'm going nuts already waiting for mine, even though I have a 2001 now that has recently been delivering 50 MPG.)

JOHN

quasar4

Is it just me, or does the dashboard on the new Prius look like it extends for miles? I realize it's difficult to say without sitting in one, but from some of the views it reminds me of the Chevy Lumina van that had the same slanted front windshield resulting in an expansive dash and a feeling that you were sitting far back from the front of the car. Personally I prefer the feel of the Honda Civic which makes me feel like I'm sitting on the front bumper with a wide-open view of the road. One good thing I noticed is that the Toyota designers appear to have broken up the dash so it may not feel like it's one huge piece of continuous plastic stretching out before you.

yerth10

If there is no price limit, will the dealers command 1000's of $
in premium. Prius-2004 compares with Camry in every aspect
while giving 55 mpg (23 km/l) which will save atleast 3k in gas bill.

Do you expect Honda to reduce the price of Civic Hybrid.

nayajhen

Well, the most intriguing part of the new Prius is the shifter. Supposedly a by-wire shifting mechanism. It sure looks very interesting in the pictures I hvae seen. I would be very interested in driving with one of these.

Any idea how they work in terms of responsiveness and time? I am thinking of buying a new Prius for my parents and I'm concerned about its function in cold weather. Does anybody have any good/bad experiences in cold conditions?

john1701a

> I'm concerned about its function in cold weather

That is a non-issue.

My Prius has been through 3 very cold Winters in Minnesota now. -13F was the coldest I was able to document (with photos on my website). The engine fired up everytime, first try. And the heater really "cooks". Efficiency was a very pleasing 40 MPG too. Driving on snow & ice was no big deal at all. And with the new VSC option, it will handle even better. In other words, it outperformed traditional cars in every respect.

JOHN

jchan2

Sounds like Honda will have to reduce it's price on the Civic Hybrid. If it doesn't, Honda won't sell any Civic Hybrids, since the Prius is more advanced and is about the same price. ($20K)

little_pogi

John, you mention there are 3 more options that where added to the original three. Can you share with us, potential '04 buyers, what they are. Any word on what accesories Toyota plans to come out for the new Prius.

john1701a

> Can you share with us, potential '04 buyers, what they are.

To document what the dealers have to offer, I created a webpage on my site. That shows you what's available, along with what I ordered.

I still don't think there's anything available from Toyota online other than the basics, just the stuff included standard and the base price.

Delivery isn't suppose to begin until mid-October, so don't expect much more than teaser stuff until then. Oh well. It's definitely worth waiting for.

What I'm yearning to find out is how much better the new design will perform in the winter. The new warming system for the emissions control should provide MPG boost. The electric A/C will be used by the defroster to remove humidity, so that will help with MPG a bit too. And of course, the propulsion system itself is more efficient. So... I could low 40's even in the dead of Minnesota winter. No other vehicle will be able to compete with that. Sweet!

JOHN

climbingfoo

With the back seats folded down, how much room is there length wise? Can 2 5'9" people be able to fully layout without folding their legs?

climbingfoo

What would the best way for this new Prius to mount a bike rack? Does it have a hitch to support a hitch rack?

Thanks

john1701a

The best place for a bike is *INSIDE*, that's the beauty of a hatchback. Quick & Easy without creating drag (which lowers MPG)... it's the cheapest option too.

But for outside mounting, a hitch seems to be the preferred choice by 2001-2003 owners. So I would expect the same to be true for the 2004 as well.

JOHN

jchan2

Anyone have an options list they can post here- we all know that the Toyota website is slow to update and that we'd rather get faster info from somewhere else than wait for the nuts at toyota.com to update the site.

coolguyky7

I was in LA last week and I drove by Carson Toyota on the 405...that dealer is huge!

mrvadeboncoeur

word of caution I've heard - steer clear of the retail sales
staff at Carson, if you're looking for a Prius.

You want to talk to their Fleet/Internet sales
department if you're interested in a Prius. The
retail staff isn't quite "up" on the Prius, and
misguided orders have been known to happen with the
retail staff. The Fleet staff is quite Prius-knowledgeable,
and they're the ones to go to (and often can be
found on various Prius boards).

djasonw

....what the ride is like. I have never driven the classic Prius so I have no benchmark for comparison. Unfortunately, I am coming out of a luxury vehicle (2002 Audi Allroad). I am in the process of selling my Audi because I really think it's OVERKILL. I don't expect the Prius to ride like the Audi, but last week in Florida we rented a 2002 Sentra. What a HORRIBLE CAR!!! I hope this is not representative of all small cars. I would imagine the Prius will ride similar to a Camry (one could hope).

yerth10

The new Prius runs on electric motor upto 42 mph (67 km/h) and so it should be smoother than any road vehicle I guess. Correct me if I am wrong.

I think Prius will win many awards for many of its wonderful features. Its transmission stick is also different. The Brake/Park is in the right side while the Reverse, Neutral and the Drive is in the left side. They have in this formation

R
|
N---B
|
D

It could have been better had the put (D) in the upside and (R) in the downside, since upside means forward and downside means backward.

coolguyky7

They probably designed the shifter with those positions because pushing down on a lever feels more ergonomic compared to pulling up on it. Second, that layout is more similar to the standard automatic transmission layout with D being below R.

yerth10

In a small battery powered cart in a shopping complex, the driving mode is located in a horizontal panel like this

↑ Up arrow for forward
    A circle for stop
↓ Down arrow for reverse

Looks logical.
I thought may be Toyota should have set like this, since this vehicle is also powered by a battery partly.

mrvadeboncoeur

If it's anything like the current Prius, the "B"
gear is for engine braking (used like a low gear on a
conventional automatic).

mrvadeboncoeur

Remember, Toyota recently updated the 2004 Prius website.
Still doesn't have all the info that's been available
on other discussion groups for a while, but...

Here's the list of features and options/packages
for the 2004 Prius:
http://www.toyota.com/prius/minisite/specs/specs.html

jchan2

Anyone know when the idiots at toyota.com will update their website and get rid of the minisite I'm so sick of?

dupie

Does any one have any thoughts as to the reliability of a system like this and does any other car manufacture have such a system, John do you think reliability would be there after 5 years?
dupie61

john1701a

I see no issue with the software at all. It's basically a longer-range version of the security system already embedded in the keys of the classic Prius.

As for hardware, the key-fob has no required moving parts whatsoever. (There are buttons, but you never need to push them.) You literally just leave it in your pocket or purse and let the wireless system work for you. That means it should easily outlast the remote I had in my pocket for 7 years before selling that car. The second remote never even came out of the bag. The first worked flawlessly the entire time.

The button on the dashboard isn't a concern at all. It should be just as durable as the power button on the radio. You can beat on it everytime you drive with no worry, expecting it to last the lifetime of the car.

Lastly, the system can't be hot-wired or master-keyed... because there isn't an ignition switch. There is literally now where to insert a key in the car or no wires to be connected. That sure makes the car quite a bit harder to steal. The signal itself is nearly impossible to reproduce too, since it changes using the well proven rolling-id method everytime you start.

JOHN

mrvadeboncoeur

supposedly the Mercedes S class offers a similar
smart entry and start system. "Keyless Go" http://www.mercedes-benz.com/e/cars/s-class/facts_e5.htm

to me it seems like a beefed up receiver for an
RFID-like tag/transponder (like a Mobil Speedpass
that I've had for years) or the current engine
immobilizer system (rolling ID chip keys) that are
on the classic Prius and so many other cars these
days. <shrug> I'm not too worried about it.

quasar4

Okay, here's an obvious question: How did you get your mitts on the new Prius? More questions: Are you a reporter? If so, who are you affiliated with? You said you were able to spend a lot of time with the car, but in the same breath said you spent an hour with it.....How much actual driving time did you spend? When you said the dash was expansive, is that good or bad? Was the monitor easy to see in bright sunlight? In darkness? Was there anything you didn't like about the car? Was the rear visibility sufficient or lacking? What options were on the car you drove? What gas mileage did you get? What type of driving conditions did you test it under? How tall are you and was the leg room sufficiently comfortable? Any unexpected surprises? How did the stereo sound?

Well that should keep you busy for a while. Thanks in advance for the answers.

quasar4

>>There is literally now where to insert a key in the car or no wires to be connected.

If this is the case, and you don't pay for the Smart Start option which allows you to simply press the Start button and go, then how do you start the car without a place to insert a key??

john1701a

> how do you start the car without a place to insert a key??

If you don't get the Smart-Start wireless option, you just insert the key-fob (remote) instead. There's a place on the dash for that. I'll be publishing a close-up of that fairly soon. Stay tuned.

JOHN

mrvadeboncoeur

is just that - it allows you to enter the car and
start it without taking the key/fob out of your
wallet/purse/pocket/pocketbook. You approach the
car, press a button on the door handle, the car
senses that you have the correct key fob, and
unlocks the door for you. You sit in the driver's
seat, the car senses the fob in proximity, and
allows you to start the car with the Start button.
At best for a security standpoint, it's an engine
immobilizer.

The security system option on the 2004 Prius is
to add a car alarm.

The garage door opener option is the addition of
the Homelink system.

I hear that the 2004 manuals are available off of
the techinfo.toyota.com site now, so in Prius
technical circles there's been much discussion as
to how the Smart Entry and Start system works, but
I don't usually run with that crowd...

jddavis1138

I'd love to know if anyone has heard if Toyota will offer a leather interior option with the 2004 Prius. That would really seal the deal for me.

mrvadeboncoeur

No option yet for leather from Toyota.

Ask your dealer for their preferred aftermarket
shop, or see if there's a ClassicSoftTrim near you.
Some owners of the 2001-2003 classic Prius have
had leather installed on their Prius.

The side air bags on the 2002-2003 Prius were located
in the front seats, so care had to be taken to
replace the seat covers with leather (needs special
break-away fabric/threads to allow the side air
bags to deploy correctly). I don't know where the
side air bags are located in the 2004 Prius.

However, I still can't understand why someone would
want to install leather seats, ESPECIALLY in a low
pollution / high MPG vehicle like the Prius. (I've
had leather seats in a previous vehicle - freezing
in winter, scalding in summer, difficult to maintain
(keep clean and keep from cracking), and everything
slides around on them. I'll take cloth seats
any day.)

Add to that that you'll be tossing away some
perfectly good cloth seat covers to install the
leather seats... Besides the ethical dilema that
an animal had to die so you have something to sit
on, there's also the environmental impact of raising
that animal (large acreage of land needed to feed
the animal, and the pesticides and other farm runoff
associated with industrial farming) vs. just the
land needed to create the cloth, and also the tanning
industry is not known for being very environmentally
friendly with all the heavy metals used in the tanning
process and factory waste...

boxfan

Do any current Prius owners use the "B" gear regularly for engine braking? Does it engage smoothly? Why is it next to neutral and not next to drive?

muffin_man

Where is the Prius built?

mrvadeboncoeur

The Prius is solely built in Japan.

mrvadeboncoeur

2001-2003 Prius gear layout is PRNDB, Park, Reverse,
Neutral, Drive, (engine) Braking.

Essentially it's like a Low gear on a traditional
automatic transmission - not used much unless you
drive on a steep hill/mountain and would overheat
your brakes otherwise.

With the exception of having to press the gear
shift button to go from Drive to B on my current
Prius, I don't really notice anything odd when
changing from D to B, or B to D (no button press needed).
<shrug> The engine just spins up and creats a bit
more drag, so you don't coast as well. Engine
coming on/off is quite seamless normally and using
B is no different.

muffin_man

How much fuel does it take to ship a car from overseas?

mrvadeboncoeur

ask someone who's in the shipping industry, or
in the car industry. That's certainly not me.

since the vast majority of the Prius' parts are
made in Japan, it makes sense that it is assembled
in Japan. There's just one production line for
all the Prius that are shipped worldwide, since
it's such a low-volume car (in comparison to something
like a Corolla or a Camry).

muffin_man

The amount of fuel a large car transport would use, plus the large amount of emissions during transport, should be something that concerns you. The amount of fuel used in transport is more than could ever be made up during the life of the car, even if it is 15mpg more efficient than a car that does not have to be shipped.

In addition, many many animals die during the automated field harvesting of cotton, soybeans, and the like, the pesticides and other farm runoff associated with this sort of farming is also a concern. And don't forget, the land used for planting is taken from animals, which are forced to move or die. Not ordering leather does not exempt you from environmental impact.

If you must drive, and want to minimize your impact on the natural world, you are better off buying a slightly less fuel efficient car that is produced closer to you (this has nothing to do with American/Japanese/European).

alpha01

I'd be interested to see the research:

"If you must drive, and want to minimize your impact on the natural world, you are better off buying a slightly less fuel efficient car that is produced closer to you (this has nothing to do with American/Japanese/European)."

Are you sure about that? Cars arent shipped one by one, they are shipped by the thousands. I'm just skeptical and would like to see evidence.
~alpha

yerth10

The distance between Japan and USA may be around
12,000 km (7,000 miles). The ships being huge will not consume much fuel.
  For ex - if Prius takes 530 liters (140 gallons) of fuel to travel that distance, then by ship, it should hardly take 40 liters (10 gallons).

regfootball

"Besides the ethical dilema that
an animal had to die so you have something to sit
on, there's also the environmental impact of raising
that animal (large acreage of land needed to feed
the animal, and the pesticides and other farm runoff
associated with industrial farming) vs. just the
land needed to create the cloth, and also the tanning
industry is not known for being very environmentally
friendly with all the heavy metals used in the tanning
process and factory waste..."

WHO GIVES A RATTS? WHO CARES? The Prius is about saving fuel, not pets. And besides, my butt wants a leather throne to sit in regardless of whether its an Ion, Prius or an Escalade. Leather is more comfortable, more durable, and better looking. It warms up nicely under your [non-permissible content removed] in winter.

Cows live, cows die (apologies to those whose religious bent honors cows). Might as well skin the hide off em before their carcass is incinerated or rots away.

What about those third world sweat shop laborists who toil making the cheap cloth that gets put into millions of cars?

Or all the petrochemicals that get wasted making vinyl seats?

Prius is a car. It exists to trim emissions and fuel usage while being practical and spacious and fun. Its not a poster child for leftists, protesters, Prochoicers, PETA, Greenpeace, free love, social spending, legalized marijuana, tolerance, saving whales, saving fur, etc.