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Toyota Prius



  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > have you found that Priuses are more expensive to maintain in the long run?

    I'm just providing raw data for others to draw conclusions with themselves... especially since by the time many are ready for purchase, a newer version will be available anyway.

    The design certainly supports the judgment that maintenance costs will be lower in the long run. And reports of owners driving well in excess of 150,000 miles without any battery degradation yet is fantastic. (The ongoing record right now for a Classic in the US is at 243,000 miles.)

  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > does anyone know of a website that tells you exactly how a Prius works?

    Yup! Start with these links:



    Power-Split-Device (details)

    Full Hybrid

    Full Hybrid (details)

    Full Hybrid (operation)

    They explain and illustrate how the smaller electric motor (MG1) interacts with the larger electric motor (MG2) and the gas engine through the use of a Power-Split-Device (PSD).

    It's not at all what most people expect. But if you can get a good grasp of the flexibility the PSD provides, it opens up a whole new understanding of why Toyota invested so heavily in that future. It offers a lot of potential.

  • canccanc Posts: 715
    Thanks Backy and John! I have some homework to do now... :)
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,683
    Unfortunately the very expensive components of a hybrid vehicle dont have to wear out to cause you trouble. They can be dammaged in an accident. It might be profitable to refer to a parts list of the Prius with the cost of each part next to the item. Many of them are out of sight expensive.
    It was mentioned that the engine of the Prius is a Toyota engine and will last for 250,000 miles. It is also nearly the same engine as in the ECHO. My suggestion is to buy an ECHO (or Yaris) and get the very excellent Toyota engine WITHOUT all the potential problems of the powerplant that comes in the Prius. Youll also save $10,000.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,631
    The Yaris is not in any way, shape, or form close to being a comparable car to the Prius. You can save thousands of bucks buying a Yaris over a Prius, but it's not like you are getting the same kind of car.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,683
    For $25,000 you get a Prius. For $25,000 dollars I get an ECHO, a pilots liscence and a 140 hp Yamaha FZ-1 motorcycle. (and $1500 in change!)
    You also get the privilage of getting seven more mpg.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,631
    Enjoy your pilot's license, bike, and ECHO... in the ECHO discussion. This is the Prius discussion.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,683
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    It never ceases to amaze me how many times people use the "just buy the cheapest" argument. But having no clue what they are missing does make life interesting.

    Prius is simply part of a new class of vehicle, snuck into a void people weren't even aware of. The lack of sound and extreme smooth were pretty much absent in non-luxury vehicles, until the "full" hybrid. Now reviewers are at a loss about how to identify those very characteristics, not wanting to relate a Prius to luxury vehicle designed to the deliver that same quiet & smooth. It's quite amusing.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,631
    You're excused. I know it gets a little lonely over there in the ECHO discussion. What has it been, about 20 messages in the past six weeks, most of them by you and nippononly? No wonder you want to talk about the ECHO in other discussions like this one. ;)

    BTW... aren't there a lot of bikes that are less expensive, and get better fuel economy, than that Yamaha FZ-1 of yours?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,683
    Yes its very lonely over there. Which is strange for me because when I owned my VW Beetle (1974) it was a very popular car and it was easy to find other people interested in them. Generally I find if someone owns an ECHO they cant say enough good things about it! At least the Yaris seems to be selling pretty well however.
    The FZ-1 gets about 38-40 mpg riding it to work and 45 mpg if you take it on a trip. My BMW F650 (fuel injected) would rack up 75 mpg if you rode it 45 mpg on back roads. It would still manage 60 mpg on trips. Too bad its FI system didnt work properly and the dealer couldnt fix it.
    At $7500, the FZ-1 is a space ship for cheap. It will out accelerate a Dodge Viper. I try to take it in small doses. Unfortunately it doesnt have an aerodynamic fairing so it becomes hard to control over 100 mph.(although it gets there in well under ten seconds if you want) Often overlooked are the brakes which stop the bike faster than the engine can accelerate it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Once a week you make this same arguement and it fits for you. Enjoy your Echo. I've sold many and ridden in hundreds, they are just not my cup of tea. But that's what so great about this country everyone can fit into it differently.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,691
    I know it gets a little lonely over there in the ECHO discussion

    Maybe that is because they are trouble free. Many of us hang out here at the Prius discussion to see who comes in with a broken Prius. Of course you guys scare off most people with problems on the Prius. Totally in disbelief until Toyota reluctantly admits they screwed up. I left the Passat TDI thread because they just go and go and go without any problems. How boring a thread is that? The last post was in April. That said, a lot of the people that post on this thread are not Prius owners. Just skeptics like me.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,683
    Its just so obvious to me that the answer to our energy/enconomy problems is smaller cars like the ECHO. (they could be smaller than that too) If we dont start reducing our demand for energy NOW Im afraid the cost of energy is going to do serious dammage. The Prius is a remarkably built vehicle that works well mechanically. Im suprised it has been relatively reliable. No one else builds a hybrid as well. Which makes me doubly glad I have a car made by Toyota! I just cant shut up about it.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Its just so obvious to me that the answer to our energy/economy problems is smaller cars like the ECHO.

    Heck, all people have to do to use less gas is to simply obey the speed limit. Many simply don't care. So expecting them to switch to a tiny vehicle with far less power is totally unrealistic.

    Of course, Echo MPG is poor in stop & slow traffic (the daily commute for many) compared to a "full" hybrid. Echo is significantly dirtier too.

    So the "small car" suggestion isn't actually a solution... especially when you consider how the automakers complain about the low profit they provide. That sure sounds like it will end up hurting the economy, not helping.

    Lastly, why do you think an Echo debate will finally win now? For the last 6 years, no compelling facts have revealed it as the better choice.

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,631
    Many of us hang out here at the Prius discussion to see who comes in with a broken Prius.

    Yes, well... I guess we all get our jollies in different ways.

    If you want to read about the Passat TDI problems, maybe you are looking in the wrong discussion. There's quite a few Passat TDI problems covered in the Passat Problems & Solutions discussion.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Posts: 1,683
    The ECHO is history but the Yaris is selling pretty well from what I hear. Im optimistic that people considering a Yaris are reading the ECHO forum. If so they are finding out how happy ECHO owners are and how reliable it is. They also know the ECHO/yaris is a slam dunk bottom line compared to the Prius.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,691
    If you want to read about the Passat TDI problems

    It seems that both Toyota and VW have ironed out the problems in the Prius and Passat TDI. I kind of miss the Passat. I like having the $29k back in the bank better. It was an experiment and it went as planned.

    I am surprised that you never bit the bullet and bought a Prius. You have been one of the gungho advocates since the beginning. Actually you will probably have a lower 5 year TCO than if you had bought Prius over the Elantra.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,631
    Except I was looking at a minimum 7-year TCO and it was heavily in favor of the Elantra, with a $9000 differential in up-front purchase price. Still, I really wanted that Prius I ordered and would have it now had it arrived when the dealer said it would, before the lease on my van expired.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,691
    I think more Americans look at car purchasing the way you do than John does. That Prius Premium keeps getting bigger. Toyota made statements that it would be less with time. That was 3 years ago and a Prius costs far more today than 3 years ago. If you buy one in San Diego with a Pkg 8 the TMV price is $31,119. With TTL you are pushing $35k. that is a lot of money for most Americans. It is also $5k over a fully loaded VW Jetta TDI, that is capable of equal MPG as the Prius. If you are looking at TCO for 7 years. I believe a GMC PU truck will have a lower TCO than a Prius.
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