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Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    So cut Obama some slack

    Actually I never mentioned him in my posting. However after just watching the news it does seem to me that rather than give money to Chrysler all he would have needed to do was come out and endorse Chrysler and the masses that are watching every move he makes and are simpy ga-ga over everything he does would buy a Chrysler. That would have saved them and not cost me anything.

    It does bother me that there is a lot of Anti-"Foreign" auto talk going on and as far as I'm concerned the Ford Fusion Hybrid is the only example of Detroit trying to help the environmental problems that the Political Left are touting and the dependance on foreign oil issues the Political Right is concerned about. Unfortunately both sides are still buying gas guzzlers.

    But all the talk has to hurt Toyota Prius, Camry Hybrid and Highlander Hybrid some, if not in sales then at least in public acceptance.

    The "average" Joe thinks hybrids are hyped. I just don't get it. I'm driving an SUV that gets 25 mpg. I had a car that averaged 37+ and am looking at one that should give me 50+ in the Prius. Even the "average" Joe should see that Toyota is designing a wide range of vehicles that as as good as you can get right now. They are so far ahead of the curve it's funny to compare them to anyone else.

    IF they would just make their cars somewhat more flashy and handle a tad better then most of the critism would have to disappear. Seriously what would it cost to make the camry Hybrid have just a little better suspension? Personally I thought the new camry is a good looking car and the people I hear critizing the looks now look like obvious Toyota haters and not really judging the car on its looks. The Prius is a little funky looking but the 2010 is crossing the threshold of something I wouldn't be embarrased to be in :blush: The Highlander Hybrid is comfortable, has a great second row seat and is very versitile.

    Don't expect me to buy American until they offer me acceptable options to Toyota.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    The "average" Joe thinks hybrids are hyped. I just don't get it. I'm driving an SUV that gets 25 mpg. I had a car that averaged 37+ and am looking at one that should give me 50+ in the Prius. Even the "average" Joe should see that Toyota is designing a wide range of vehicles that as as good as you can get right now. They are so far ahead of the curve it's funny to compare them to anyone else.

    Well hybrids are hyped... to the limit! it's what the marketing companies do. Doesn't matter what company. The Big 3 are dinosaurs. Slow to move and react and it takes them an ice age or two before they can alter their plans. There is a reason there are no dinosaurs left.
    GM can't make a car that can compete with Honda or Toyota, period. If they could have they would have done so... or would they? They make great small cars in Europe and yet these are cars that will never come to the US.
    I have no sympathy for any car company that could bring over small efficient cars and refuses to do so.
    As far as Fiat and Chrysler. I guess everyone has forgotten that Fiat = Fix It Again Tony. Fiat made a lot of crap cars and died in the US market as a result. Along with Triumph, MG, Renault, Peugeot and a whole bunch of others. Americans vote with their wallets. The Big 3 holding off on bringing over those small cars doesn't seem to have helped them any.

    IF they would just make their cars somewhat more flashy and handle a tad better then most of the criticism would have to disappear. Seriously what would it cost to make the camry Hybrid have just a little better suspension? Personally I thought the new camry is a good looking car and the people I hear critizing the looks now look like obvious Toyota haters and not really judging the car on its looks. The Prius is a little funky looking but the 2010 is crossing the threshold of something I wouldn't be embarrassed to be in The Highlander Hybrid is comfortable, has a great second row seat and is very versatile.

    I don't see why a hybrid or a diesel or any fuel efficient car can't be fun to drive. The Camry is a no brainer. Toyota wants it to have a soft suspension to steal older folks away from Buick. :P
    The Accord is much tighter and yet I know people who just hate that sporty feel in their appliance. They want a land yacht that floats down the road, no bumps no nothing. Kinda like the Buick Electras of old.
    I think most manufacturers have no idea what people want so they stick with whatever sells. For certain the Camry sells to people who like that isolationist ride.
    I can't see why they can't make sporty and fuel efficient cars but look at a Mazda Miata, it only gets about 25 mpg combined! Why is that? It's only 167 hp!

    Sadly car makers use focus groups and make generic decisions that will appeal to the most people. Toyota and Honda do not take risks per se'.
    GM and Ford couldn't come up with a new idea to save their corporate butts and Chrysler has been on the ropes for decades.

    Vote with your wallet, buy cars you like not just because of where they were built.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    GM can't make a car that can compete with Honda or Toyota, period. If they could have they would have done so... or would they? They make great small cars in Europe and yet these are cars that will never come to the US.

    You need to get it through your head now everybody wants a Honda or toyota. If GM can't complete against H or T than until last years fluke outsold T every year for what almost 75 years. To bring things closer to home in March GM outsold T by a little over 20 thousand unit. In April they sold more than 50 thou. more than T, heck even Ford out sold T in April. So it looks like you don't know what you are talking about. Here GM is in a world of hurt though not their fault but thats another story in itself and they still out sold big bad T. Get used to it there are other cars besides the Prius and those of us who can afford a little gas or those of us who are just to tall for a Prius or those of us who have worked hard for 40+ years feel we deserve a lux type car and by American whenever we can. I fit all the above and you won't find a foreign piece of clothes in my closet nor the same with my shoes. New Balance made in America instead of something else made by second graders. The talk here about oil and how it supports the midddle east maggets I bet have no problem supporting the companies who use 2nd graders to make their clothes. :P
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    You need to get it through your head now everybody wants a Honda or toyota. If GM can't complete against H or T than until last years fluke outsold T every year for what almost 75 years. To bring things closer to home in March GM outsold T by a little over 20 thousand unit. In April they sold more than 50 thou. more than T, heck even Ford out sold T in April. So it looks like you don't know what you are talking about. Here GM is in a world of hurt though not their fault but thats another story in itself and they still out sold big bad T.

    I'm going to assume you mean "Not everyone" and I agree. My point is not about the prius specifically. But the only reason GM sold more was the massive discounts they were offering. If Ford can make a car that gets 65 mpg in Europe but for some reason can't in the US then they have real problems.
    I don't want to see US plants shut down. I want to see domestic car makers manufacture BETTER cars. I do not see this happening at the moment. My last domestic was a 1995 Impala SS. Since then they haven't made anything I have liked. I would like to see decently built small cars from Chevy, Ford and Chrysler and cars that can last 10 years in real world driving but my memories are of far too many cars that fall apart not long after the warranty expires. That's not including the repairs during the warranty that the dealers try and weasel out of fixing.
    1-2 months of sales figures are meaningless unless they are taken in context. Massive discounts account for most of that, not an increase in quality.
    If GM and Ford are so great, let them offer a 4 year 50K mile bumper to bumper warranty on everything. It won't happen! They'd lose their shirt fixing all those cars.
    I sure do miss the domestic cars from the 1960's!
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    SeemsToyota has been offering some pretty good discounts too. I believe Caddy and Buick do offer 4 yr everything warranty and all of GM offers 5/100 powertrain in which T don't/can't. There seems to be a lot of complaining on all the other T sites with problems on trucks, Camrys etc. I can remember fa couple years ago here there was also a bit of complaining going on with things wrong like the displays going bad and the huge price to replace. I think all cars have problems but it is how the dealers/manufacturers treat you and from what I have read on the T sites they don't treat customers very well on warranty items.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Everyone is discounting right now. In a market with limited buyers they will do all they can to take their share. Reality for Toyota is that when a CTS and STS are discounted $10K and priced with a loaded Camry rather than a Lexus, then they have a problem. It used to be they would ignore that, they still got their market share. But really the problem is with the CTS and GM. Selling cars at a loss cannot be made up on volume sales. If GM comes out with the CTS at pricing they had in January I may indeed forget about the 2010 Prius for a while. Fitzmall had a CTS for $32K back then if you qualified for the various discounts. I didn't then, I do now (it had extra money for terminating leases).

    No one would offer a warranty at all if they didn't have to in order to sell their cars. The longest warranties are offered by companies where the perception (right or wrong) is that the car will be expensive to maintain or won't last long.

    I've never bought an extended warranty on a Toyota because whatever glitches they have are usually worked out early. The 36,000 to 75,000 mile time frame is typically troublefree for most.

    Interesting on the Caddy. I've been looking at the CTS and if they have a 4yr bumper to bumper warranty they should advertise that more as that is a selling feature on a car with a lot of electronic's that I don't trust longterm. I'll have to look into that.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    and BTW, the two Toyota Dealerships I have dealt with were great. So have the two Ford dealerships where I have purchased as well. may be the difference in small town America and Metropolitan areas. The dealers where I purchase know me by name when I stop in to browse.
  • rick294rick294 Posts: 77
    The CTS is a sharp looker, but I wouldn't buy any car or truck without first checking the annual auto issue (April) of Consumer Reports. CR compiles owner comments during their annual survey and rates them accordingly. GM stuff that's actually made by GM is not rated very well. As a matter of fact, absolutely nothing from Chrysler is recommended by CR! If a person wants luxury, buy a Lexus. If you want luxury with a poor reliability record, but with a long warranty, and enjoy taking the vehicle in for warranty work on a regular basis, pick a Cadillac or Lincoln. Then try unloading them when gas shoots up to the sky once again.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I have been consider waiting for the Lexus 250h. Don't think the ES is worth much of a premium over the Camry and the Lexus I would like is over $50K. More then I want to spend to have a third vehicle. I like the styling of the 250h over the Prius but I'm expecting it to be a steep premium and since it has the Camry engine it's probably going to be more like a 40 mpg avg. Thus I'm still comparing the 2010 Prius and the FFH.

    The CTS at $32K though would sway my decision. As a third vehicle it would not be the daily driver and reliability is not as big a concern as long as GM still is making Cadillac's and the warranty is still intact. If I get the Prius it will be the "go to" car for everyday driving.

    I like the idea of having at least 1 economy car though so it will take something big to push me in a different direction.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Posts: 1,739
    My wife has a STS which has been very relieable going on 3 years with only one trip to the dealer for repairs and that was the Navagation system which is made by a German company and 1/2 owned by Toyota which uses the same system in the Lexus. So is the Caddy to be blamed for a Toyota problem. So that is how toyota gets their good rep by selling junk to GM.
  • stevegoldstevegold Posts: 185
    The navigation system in my 2004 Prius was made by Danso which I believe is an Australian company. I did have to have the screen replaced (it went blank) under warrantee after a year or two. No problems since then.
  • tiff_ctiff_c Posts: 531
    The navigation system in my 2004 Prius was made by Danso which I believe is an Australian company. I did have to have the screen replaced (it went blank) under warrantee after a year or two. No problems since then.

    It's Nippon Denso actually and it's a Japanese manufacturer. They make Nav units for quite a few companies.
    Better off buying a portable GPS, much cheaper and more easily upgraded or replaced.
    If a built in Nav unit breaks, it's no big deal as long as it's under warranty. If it's not... you're screwed!
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    Well, all things considered, if the NAV in the Prius is like the Camry Hybrids, it's not much of a navigation tool. Adequate, but not as easy to use or up to date as the garmins. It has the advantage of a large screen though for those of us 50+ who seem to be the Camry target. However I seldom used the NAV screen. I would have paid the price of the NAV on the TCH just for the various energy screens. Since this was my first "boring" car after years of driving something I felt affection for, the energy screens gave me something to like at first sight on the TCH. After I got to know her better it was love. She was no longer a wallflower to me.

    I really don't think I would have developed a sense of how to utilize the hybrid system adequately without the energy screens. I reset it just about every trip, short or long, and then learned how to approach each trip to game the system. It actually made driving fun, even when driving slower than others.

    As far as reliability on cars, I like the reliability of Toyota's. But I'm not really down on other brands, except for Audi, Subaru and Chrysler, of which I figured getting burned once was enough. I've owned a little bit of everything. I even got burned on the Nissan 350Z and the alignment issues but I find myself looking at the 370Z and wondering if I should give them a second chance. Perhaps later when I retire I'll want a sports car again, or at least a sporting car (I really do miss the Infiniti FX45_wish it got better milage)
  • rick294rick294 Posts: 77
    Not my intention to be rude, thoughtless or a jerk. Just going on what I've read or heard from reliable sources (as to amount of oil we could go after). Current politics from the White House says environment is first, American economy is less important. I don't care to go any deeper with the political talk. I might be the only Conservative on earth that owns a Prius, but so be it. I have a lot of concern and respect for the earth I live on; I just don't bow down to it as so many are inclined to do.
  • rick294rick294 Posts: 77
    I should clarify my comments on Cadillacs, etc. I was just relaying what I have read in Consumer Reports. For many years, not just recently, CR has shown less than wonderful reliability ratings on most GM and Chrysler vehicles and for many Ford products. Exceptions were predictably made for models produced by Asian sources. No one can make the claim (including me) that all Cadillacs, Lincolns, Chryslers, etc., are "no good". That's ridiculous! But on the other hand, those and similar domestic-sourced vehicles tend to be of lesser quality than their Asian competitors. My wife and I do not have a lot of financial resources. It was a real stretch for us to purchase our 2008 Prius, but we were glad we did. I guess it's just difficult for me to hear of someone putting out $30-50 thousand dollars on vehicles with not-so-hot reliability ratings. Bottom line? Buy whatever rings your chimes! If you get great reliability, I'm happy for you!
  • rick294rick294 Posts: 77
    Message #7229 - I agree with 100% of your message.
  • rick294rick294 Posts: 77
    You obviously have not seen the film. All Ben Stein does in it is interview well known individuals on both sides of the issue. He doesn't take a stand. He asks pointed questions and we are shown the answers given. He leaves it to the viewer to decide for him/her self. You cannot slap a label on it as an "intelligent design" movie.
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I might be the only Conservative on earth that owns a Prius,

    I may soon be #2
  • rick294rick294 Posts: 77
    Awriiiight! ;)
  • wvgasguywvgasguy Posts: 1,405
    I was just relaying what I have read in Consumer Reports

    :) I seldom rely on anything any journalist has to say, even Consumer reports. Although I do like the little red balls beside "issues" for reliability. I think CR may be changine their ratings some, I don't keep up with them. One thing I always disliked was that the ratings don't delve into the distinction between "serious" issues and those easy to fix.

    For example my TCH needed aligned from the factory. It caused the front tires to feather within the first 5000 miles before I rotated them or even noticed the problem. That would have been a black mark but a simple alignment fixed it. My 2003 Nissan 350Z chewed the tires up, they made a noise so bad in the first 4000 miles that I was embarrassed to have a friend ride with me. I hassled Nissan with that problem, getting alignments, changing tires rim to rim and eventually they gave in and put new tires on it. They started doing the same thing. I dumped it. I absolutely loved that car but the hassle and knowing what the future expense would be to own it after warranty worried me. I assume they fixed the problem. However in CR that too would probably show up ony as a black ball beside suspension. Two similar problems, two seriously differing degrees of issue.

    My first Expedition needed a new rear end at 700 miles. Made me mad enough that my next two vehicles were Sequoia's. had I not traded the Sequoia for an Infiniti I would still be driving them. But in the break away we came back to Expedition because of "value" (read that as X-plan pricing and large rebates). The rear end was fixed and I'm sure someone is still enjoying that SUV. My current one has been trouble free.

    My Audi experience was electrical. I'm pretty convinced that electrical problems are hard to fix and would occur across the line. The Germans have absolutely beautiful interiors and sweat the details but they need to sub out their electrical work to the Asians. They are too proud to do that I guess.

    To me reliability has not been a problem as long as I have a garage near by and it's not the vehicle I depend on. Actually I typically have 3 vehicles and a company vehicle to choose from. But even with that I don't want a vehicle that has issues that can't be fixed.

    The Prius has proven itself. Sure 1 in every 50,000 (made up number) may lose a battery or a display but I can live with those odds. I don't consider the Toyota Hybrids as a risky choice. I do however have some concern with the FFH long term. And it's not the hybrid part I worry about. Electric windows and door locks, radios, a/c compressors, etc... are the things that concern me. They can eat you up over the long haul if you keep a car for an extended time. I have not done that yet but the thoughts of doing that keep me interested as a challenge. I'm curious if I can beat Bob and run a Prius 300,000 miles. It would only take me 10 years.

    I know if I get a CTS it would be a 50,000 mile love affair and then it's gone. Once you get addicted to glitz or horsepower there is always something new coming along to tempt you. I decided when I got the TCH not to play that game, but I still get tempted from time to time.
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