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Toyota Prius

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  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Backy:

    ___Thanks for the refreshing post … I tried to come up with all the 0 to 60 times for a number of Toyota’s because as mentioned above, John1701a said that the Matrix not only accelerated slower but that no one was comparing it to the 04 Prius. I only wish I could have found the XR w/ Auto’s times. I am glad you went back to the Echo’s performance data linked from Autosite. The 0 to 60 run matched what I posted. I only wish they didn’t typo the CVT/ECT item. You used to own an Echo, didn’t you?

    ___As for the car magazines 0 to 60 times, this is the only way a comparison can be done. I believe MT, C&D, R&T etc. will have little to no variance in their 0 to 60 blasts from vehicle to vehicle and year to year whereas many here that have never done 0 to 60 blasts without scrutiny will have numbers all over the map as has been shown in this thread alone. Who do you believe? Someone that received 9.9 seconds with 44 #’s in the tires to 60 under whatever conditions with a stop watch in one hand possibly or Autosite’s car magazine gathering data capability across a range of Toyota’s from a range of professional car magazines over any number of recent years? The one item I don’t trust from the professional car magazines is there fuel economy data. They never come close to the EPA estimates in the Economy cars and Hybrid’s in particular. It appears that they just don’t know how to drive them to maximize fuel economy is all.
    It more then likely shows they are beating the H311 out of their test vehicles during their tests which is unfortunate given no one will drive an economy car or any car for that matter like that.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Prius doesn't feel underpowered, that's what is important. Torque is strong from idle, with 295 lb-ft from the motor alone.

    At low rpm, it feels stronger then any other 4-banger Toyota. At high rpm, only the Matrix XRS carries a significant advantage.

    And then ask yourself, how much time do you spend above 4000 rpm in normal driving? Probably not much.

    For daily driving, low revs, Prius compares favorably to any of those cars.

    -juice
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    And then ask yourself, how much time do you spend above 4000 rpm in normal driving? Probably not much.

    As little as possible! Actually, I usually keep the revs on my Elantra under 3000, which is possible because the torque is strong. If I did 4000 rpms in my minivan, it would probably say, "Hey, cut it out!"

    Yes, safe performance is what I'm looking for in a family car, and I believe the Prius delivers that. If it were too slow to get out of its own way, that would be another thing.

    As for the auto mags driving the h*ll out of cars--well sure, that's what we pay them to do for us, so we can all live vicariously from their experience! And I don't think they give a hoot about maximizing fuel economy. But it's interesting I think that even the testers at CR don't seem to know how to drive a car to maximize fuel economy, at least not in city and mixed driving. Their highway numbers are usually pretty good, but nowhere close to what I can get on the same cars in city/mixed driving.

    And no, I never owned an ECHO. It's a good little car but a little small for my needs right now, and IMO not a good value loaded up with popular options.
  • Michael, I would like to correspond directly with you about Bluetooth. You can get my address in my profile. Thanks!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Just got my January Car & Driver (even though it's not quite December) and see that C/D named the Prius one of its 10Best for 2004. One quote:

    There's more to automotive enthusiasm than drag-strip performance and race-track times. Although most of the cars on our 10Best list reward and encourage spirited acceleration and handling, this one makes a game out of fuel efficiency. And--surprise!--the game is fun.

    The brief article also mentions a 0-60 time of 11.3 seconds. C'mon, C/D--you can do better than that! Or maybe they were too busy watching the screen, trying to see who could get the best mpg. ;-)
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    And--surprise!--the game is fun.

    Those posting on the "up to the chore" topic would be furious by that quote. To them, acceleration & handling is all that matters... and they've used C&D in their defensive many times. Now the tables have turned!

    I told them that someday "enthusiast" would also apply to fuel efficiency. Ha!

    JOHN
  • djasonwdjasonw Posts: 624
    Who the heck cares? I have nearly 2000 miles of real world driving and have never had a situation where I felt underpowered. The car always seems like it is has instantaneous torque when I need it. Braking performance is MUCH more important to me than 0-60 times. Sorry folks... my scroll key is getting worn scrolling past the mindless posts of Corolla lover. Oh... in case anyone is interested, someone over on Yahoo did some 0-60 times with a g-tech and consistently got between 9.6-10.1. FYI... my second car a Jeep Liberty goes 0-60 in low 10's and does not have anywhere close to the feeling of torque when passing at 40-70. This is exciting since this is just the beginning of what we can expect from hybrids.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Like how often is 0 - 60 relevant to anything in modern traffic? How many miles do you travel in the 0 - 60, "gotta get there quick" mode. My guess would be about .01% of the total miles you travel. Duh? (I'm sure I'll get the emergency performance argument from someone about the oncoming train.)

    0 to 35 or 30 to 55 --- there's a couple of numbers that real people driving real streets in the real world can relate to.. and there torque matters.

    There's much more to the hybrid story than the green aspects and I think it scares the heck out of the horsepower crowd.

    Imagine a car with econocar busting gas mileage, outstanding traffic performance, great equipment and options, good handling and safety and rock solid reliability.

    I think we're there now.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi John1701a:

    > Those posting on the "up to the chore" topic would be furious by that quote.

    ___I don’t think that at all but I know a few that will ;) The Game Gauge in the MDX and the FCD in the Insight are a heck of a lot more fun then 0 to 60 but you should never disregard 0 to 60. With the 0 to 60 numbers out, I saw Consumer Guide tested their 04 Prius at 10.5 seconds in their 0 to 60 measured run Pre/Post-release so the 04 Prius is still the slowest to 60 of the Echo, Corolla, and Camry. As a counter point, who cares … I was very happy to hear of the 114 ft. - 60 to 0 with the GoodYear Integrity’s that Backy provided however.

    ___Djasonw, so you are a mindless jeep lover? It’s too bad you never took a glance at the JD Power Initial Quality Survey’s or the NHTSA/IIHS crash tests over the last few years. You might have made a more educated and safer automobile decision then to drive what you are driving currently. I don’t love my Corolla as you love your Prius and seriously shopped the Civic LX, and Ford Focus but at least I weighed the facts before I purchased unlike when you purchased the 04 sight unseen with no repeatable performance or otherwise reviews/tests to verify anything. New and Used car salesmen/woman love it when an individual like yourself walks through their door because they don’t have to do anything to steal your money. You mentioned the 30 to 50 type numbers as well. When looking over past performance numbers of all the Hybrid’s including the 01-03 Prius, HCH, and Insight CVT and 5 Speed, they got trounced in that category as well. I can only hope the 04 Improved or it’s not worth mentioning as a positive.

    > Imagine a car with econocar busting gas mileage, outstanding traffic performance, great equipment and options, good handling and safety and rock solid reliability.

    ___That sounds just like the Toyota Corolla LE for ~ $15,000 loaded up? You know, relatively quiet at hwy cruise, 43.5 mpg on the hwy with 20 to 50 degree temps, 5 star crash ratings, much less expensive compared to the Hybrid powered Prius loaded or otherwise. I just cannot fathom someone trading in a perfectly running 01 Prius for an 04 and paying $17,000 + the car? That is more then I paid for my car out the door including tax!

    ___Backy, did the 04 Prius review have any dB measurements at 50, 60, and 70 mph? I am interested in those numbers as well.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • civicwcivicw Posts: 135
    I'm looking forward to reading more from Prius owners on what they like/dislike about their car, rather than debates about saving fractions of a second or the Corolla (I could fall asleep driving with its numb steering).

    Personally, I find the Prius styling to be a refreshing change among a sea of bloated Camcords and 300 hp SUVs. The Prius is the kind of car that I'd expect from Honda, unfortunately Honda must have their design center in Dullsville.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Civicw:

    ___From the Consumer Guide 04 Prius review:

    Steering/Handling/Braking:

    “Steady, predictable, but twisty-road hustling betrays early marked body lean and limited grip from skinny mpg-oriented tires. Tight turning circle a help in parking lots. Crosswind stability seems much improved over prior Prius. Electric steering feels a bit light and artificial. Stopping power okay, but brake-pedal feel heavy and dull.”

    Quietness:

    “Better isolated from all noise sources than previous Prius, and at least a match for Civic Hybrid. Toyota's engine still gruffer than Honda's, especially at full throttle, but revs smoothly.”

    Room/Comfort/Driver Seating (front):

    “Head room adequate for lanky 6-footers, but maybe not rearward seat travel. Low dashtop, tallish windows lend spacious feel. Seats nothing special for shape or support. High tail, downsloped rear window impede driver vision behind, but not seriously.”

    Room/Comfort (rear):

    “Bench seat set low and is just economy-class comfortable, but leg space rivals that of Toyota's roomy Camry sedan. Sloped roofline leaves an inch or so of head clearance for 6-footers. No-strain entry/exit, as in front.”

    Value within Class:

    “The '04 Prius leapfrogs the rival Civic Hybrid for room and performance, and is competitive in fuel economy. But both are still high-tech alternatives to regular economy sedans, with higher initial cost that will take years to recoup in fuel savings. That's true even with the one-time $2000 federal tax deduction for buyers of hybrid vehicles. But full credit to Toyota for making its "green machine" a noticeably more mature, pleasant, and useful all-round family car without raising the price.”

    ___Does that help?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    You must be thinking of another post on the stopping distance--I didn't post any stopping numbers. I just talked about my own experience with stopping the car in a simulated "emergency stop" maneuver.

    The C/D 10Best article I saw today gave only a very short synopsis of each car and didn't cover things like interior noise levels.

    ... but at least I weighed the facts before I purchased unlike when you purchased the 04 sight unseen with no repeatable performance or otherwise reviews/tests to verify anything.

    Yes... kind of like I did when I bought the redesigned '01 Elantra in October 2000, before there were any reviews/tests out on it. Stupid me! I bought it based solely on my opinion of the car, and based on research related to but not specific to the car. I've been very happy with it. But since you are obviously much smarter than I am, I won't bore you with further conversation. Goodbye, sir, and good luck to you.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Backy:

    ___I did the same with a Pre-owned 85 Mekur XR4Ti almost 15 years ago … That was the last car I ever owned without doing some research …

    ___As for being smart, you are speaking with the wrong guy. Just an average Joe car enthusiast. Facts and figures are very dear to me as you can tell however.

    ___Djasnow, you mentioned 125 ft. 60 to 0 and footie mentioned the 30 to 50, sorry.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • Is it true that there is a no-haggle pricing strategy on the Prius (similar to Saturn and Scion)? Our dealer in San Jose (C.T.) claims that nobody in the country is offering any discounts (whatsoever).

    Also, is there a way to track an order after we've placed a $500 deposit?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Good point, backy. I think many of the other Toyotas need revs because they lack torque on the low end, particularly the Matrix.

    Prius is sort of the opposite, more relaxed and very functional.

    These articles are overlooking some very, very important benefits of a hybrid:

    * range (not just mileage, range!)
    * HOV access (pass Vipers at rush hour)
    * total silence at "idle" is very luxurious
    * no sales tax, at least in MD, saves you 5% up front

    To me these are all significant, perhaps more so than pure fuel efficiency numbers.

    -juice
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    I wish some other states--like Minnesota--were as "enlightened" about hybrids as Maryland is! HOV access and no sales tax--those are huge benefits! Then there's the states that have the tax credits for hybrids. I wonder how long those kind of benefits will stay around, however. I read an article in today's Star Tribune about all the hybrid models planned by Toyota, Ford, GM, DC, and Honda by 2008--many of them in the next year or two. That would be a lot of tax credits, sales tax relief, and cars and trucks on the HOV lanes!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Seriously, all these articles fixate on a $2000 tax deduction that will at most amount to $800.

    At $24k, you're saving $1200 in MD up front, no waiting for April 15th.

    Locally, they are considering closing off some roads, like Rock Creek Parkway, I wish they'd make them HOV or hybrid only instead.

    -juice
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Ah, the things some salespeople will say! It is absolutely not true that no one in the country is offering any discounts on the Prius. My experience is that very few dealers in my area (Twin Cities) are offering discounts, because they can sell all they want for MSRP and have order backlogs for several months. I did find two dealers in my area who offer, or offered discounts of $500 off MSRP. One dealer recently stopped that practice. The other continues to offer $500 off each Prius, a flat discount, as part of their "no negotiating" policy at the dealership. (That policy applies to all cars sold at the dealership, not just Priuses.) Guess where I ordered my Prius? ;-) There are also a few dealers around the country selling Priuses on eBay, and the starting prices for some of them are below MSRP. So in a way you could consider those dealers offering to sell the cars at a discount--whether the bids go above MSRP is another story.

    As for tracking orders, I don't know how to track them myself but my dealer has a tracking sheet and knows exactly where my order stands, and all I need to do is call or email my sales rep and ask him where I am, whenever I want. I'll probably do that once a month until the delivery date comes nearer.
  • Where would I go online and what do I do to check the "online inventory" of a region? I am awaiting a Red Salsa BC in New England.
    Thanks.

    > Anyone shopping for a Prius in the SET zone should check online
    > inventory to get the lowdown on which cars have what. The last 4
    > digits of the VIN are given.
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi All:

    ___For the Coloradoan’s amongst us, the Prius is a steal … We are speaking of a $2,600 tax CREDIT against ones Colorado State Income tax + the Federal $2,000 deduction ($560 to $620 off for most).

    http://www.revenue.state.co.us/fyi/html/income09.html

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    The bad news is that you can't check the regional inventory in New England...

    The good news is that that there's NO mammoth distributor in New England like there is in the Southeast and Gulf States. (That's good news because the market here is competitive on a dealership by dealership basis and the Toyotas don't come loaded with gimmicky 'port' options like they do in the SE.)

    The big distributors are the ones that put up the regional inventory and make it available through the individual dealerships.

    Here in New England, you need to develop a contact at a Toyota dealership. They can look up regional inventory and scheduled delivery on their computer system.

    You can also shop outside of New England. The Baltimore and Washington Toyota market is very competitive and not controlled by a family distributorship like the entire SouthEast.
  • I've been told by my dealer in NY that Toyota is only shipping option package # 6 and #9 equipped Prius' for the next couple of months. I was looking for a silver Prius with package # 7. Has anyone else heard this in this region, and can anyone recommend a dealer in this area that understands these cars. I live in Rockland County, NY. Has anyone been able to purchase a silver #7 in another region?
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Seeger Toyota in St. Louis has 1 pkg 7 Prius - Salsa Red - $22625.

    Fusz Toyota in St. Louis has 3 pkg 7 Prius - 2 Pearl and 1 Red.

    I didn't look beyond these two dealers, but if you look around in the midwest ( above TX and OK) perhaps you can find one in Silver.

    Good shopping.
  • Just curious if anyone with the 04 or 03 Prius has used the new 100% synethic
    motor oils, in particular Mobil 1 (0-20). Also max tire pressure 44 psi to see
    if there is a substanial miles per gallon increase. I know with my 94 Honda Civic VX I
    picked up about 2 MPG by going to Mobil 1 (0-30) weight.

    Alster 2
  • I too would be interested in the results of anyone using synthetic oil. I use Mobil 1 in all my vehicles (including a diesel motorhome) EXCEPT our '03 Prius. The only reason I haven't used it in that is that the Toyota dealer is paying for all the oil and filter changes, and they use regular oil. If there were some substantial fuel economy improvement I'd reconsider.

    By the way I recently calculated the overall fuel economy in my '03 Prius to date. At 5400 miles, I've averaged over the total, just about 48.5 mpg. I am very pleased!

    Ed Headington
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Alster2:

    ___John1701a did exactly that but he’s driving right into the heart of late fall/early winter MN. temperatures with a vehicle that is not even close to broken in yet. He may not see much of an improvement until the automobile sees 5 to 20,000 miles and it warms up above 50 degrees or so. Running maximum pressures in higher mileage Toyota’s has left their owners without a loss (actually a gain) in mileage through this cold period and I would suspect the same with a Prius after they have truly been broke in.

    ___Another small suggestion although I do not have any firm evidence that it is true or not … Listening to the banter over on Bobistheoilguy forums, many believe you should run the break in dino oil until at least the first oil change at the OEM recommended mileage. It will help with the break in process. According to many over there, Mobil1, Amsoil (uses Mobil1 base Stock), or Redline are actually too good to make sure the initial break in process has advanced to a point where Mobil1/Amsoil/Redline or whatever else will give you its great long life wear properties. Again, this is only commentary coming from the key boards of many automobile maintenance enthusiasts that hang around over at that site.

    ___Another 04 Prius - Full review … http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2310.shtml

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I am thinking of getting one versus a Camry or Accord purchase. And my friend wants a Prius before Christmas. What is the fastest possible way to get a Prius? I have seen the listings on eBay and one of them has been bid out to $31K (too much $$) the other one is more reasonable, to sticker price, which is $22,765 and the third one doesn't tell me the equipment level but it is at $19,000, and if the equipment is good on that one, I may call my friend and tell him to bid on it. Or, should I tell him to just go down to the dealer and try to locate a Prius that will be on the lot before Christmas?
  • xcelxcel Posts: 1,025
    Hi Jcahn2:

    ___Have you viewed the Toyota Prius: Prices Paid and Buying Experience thread? The last few posts had some leads for new purchases in the lower Midwest if that helps …

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne R. Gerdes
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    a Prius that I can get before Christmas. What should I do? Go to eBay? Visit my local dealer and see what the incoming inventory is? I'm flexible with 4 colors and 4 option packages, giving a total of 16 possible combinations, which is a pretty good chance of locating one. And I want whatever discount I can get, alothough if I am offered a smaller discount in return for an earlier delivery date, then I'll pick the earlier delivery date and not the larger discount.
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