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Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > this means the car is optimized for

    ALL vehicles suffer in the cold. And that temperature range is for the EPA tests, not anything even remotely related to actual design.

    Unfortunately, another short-coming of the EPA tests is the fact that the average highway speed they drive at is only 48 MPH, with a brief maximum up to 60 MPH. People obviously drive much faster, which means they'll get lower MPG than the test results. Bummer, eh?

    The real problem is the fact that people don't have a Multi-Display in their current vehicle to inform then how crappy their winter MPG is. Oh well.

    JOHN
  • ragueroraguero Posts: 60
    They stated last night on CBS Evening News that there are 16,000 Prius on back order from Toyota. Good luck to all that don't have their's yet. Mine is averaging about 48 mpg in combined city/freeway driving here in cool LA (heck, it only got up to 60 today, we're freezing here!). I'm more than happy with my mpg in spite of the fuel gauge - better safe than sorry.
  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    OK Guys...I'm a Toyota fan (currently have 3)and was looking hard at the Prius but I've also found the following about Tire requirements via Tire Rack...

    This car requires an unusually high Load Index. The Load Index need is 88. Most 185/65-15 tires only have a Load Index of 86. See more on Load Index at:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/speed.htm
     
    This is why you can't buy tires for the Pruis via Tire Rack!!!
  • This is going to be the 70's & 80's all over again by the time Toyota is done...

    http://money.cnn.com/2004/01/06/pf/autos/detroit_gm_hybrids/index- .htm
  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    OK Guys...I'm a Toyota fan (currently have 3)and was looking hard at the Prius but I've also recieved the following about Tire requirements from Tire Rack...

    This car requires an unusually high Load Index. The Load Index need is 88. Most 185/65-15 tires only have a Load Index of 86. See more on Load Index at:
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/speed.htm
     
    This is why you can't buy tires for the Pruis via Tire Rack!!!
  • Toyota puts on Goodyear Integrity 185/165/15 and yet there load rating is 1168 pounds ,that would be a 86 load rating, so if it needs a load of 88 why is Toyota puting them on then? I found this out on the Tire Rack web site ! If I want to put on tires that get better MPG ,that the Goodyear Integrity? And what kind of tires came on the old Prius? Thank
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I'd assume seven or eight months, with so many Priuses (or Prii) on back order. The demand in Japan is through the roof too.
  • jchan2jchan2 Posts: 4,956
    I think that Good Year Integritys were also used on the old Prius. I'm not sure, so john1701a will have to clarify for us.
  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    I believe Bridgestone was used...and Toyota switched because of accelerated wear issues.

    Mike
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    175/65/14 XL-rated Bridgestone Potenzas were used on the classic Prius.

    Switching to 185/65/14 eliminated the need for XL-rated. Increased PSI to 42 PSI eliminated the need for XL-rated too.

    So the fact that the 2004 Prius (which is only 125 pounds more) uses Goodyear Integrity 185/165/15 clearly supports there is no need for special heavy load tires, even at the standard PSI.

    The switch from Bridgestone to Goodyear was provide harder rubber. Those original tires wore out very, very fast because they were so soft you could actually leave marks on the road just from making a tight turn. That's a treadwear rating of only 160. The new tires have a treadwear rating of 460, which is a huge improvement.

    By the way, that's another "amazing coincidence" for Toyota. They just happened to choose the same type of Goodyear rubber for the 2004 that I bought and promoted as an alternate for the classic...

    JOHN
  • Here in the Portland, OR area this week we have
    Minnesota like coditions; 20 degrees, 6" of snow on the road, etc. I drove the '04 around just fine! The traction control did it's thing and I didn't hesitate plowing through untracked conditions. The only reason to let it idle was for windshield thawing. It is still amazing to get >37mpg in a mid-size 3000lb. sedan! How can someone complain about and base a buying decision on that (poor performance!)? Incidentally, I run 39/37 in the tires and changed the oil at 1500 miles with Castrol dino 5x30 weight. I'm fine with these compromises for ride & economy respectively. Looking forward to 'optimal' conditions next spring to see what she'll do w/o the need for heat. Typical 6 mile commutes and shopping trips produce 42mpg avg. over 5 tanks of +/- 8 gallon fill ups. Sounds on par to me.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,443
    It takes much more than 5 minutes to warm up a gasoline engine when the temp is near zero. It was 0 this morning and my car was just starting to move the needle from being fully pegged on cold after 15 miutes of running/driving. This is just coolant temp - engine oil temp takes even longer to warm up.

    When the engine is cold it uses a 5th fuel injector called a cold start valve, and also raises the idle. This combined with thicker oil mean that mileage is much much worse until full warm up. If you live in a large town you also have winter gas, which is not as efficient.

    There is nothing wrong with driving off without warming up your car, it just wont get very good gas mileage. It will be better though than the mileage you get from just idling the car though.

    Once the car is fully warm (could take a while in extreme cold), the outside temp should not effect fuel mileage very much at all.

    If you really want to expiriment. Drive for 20-30 miles in extreme cold to fully warm the engine. Then reset the mileage gauge and see what the figures are.

    The best solution is to not let the car cool down, but this requires a heated garage, or a plug in engine heater (not as effective as the garage)
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > It takes much more than 5 minutes to warm up a
    > gasoline engine when the temp is near zero.

    Not with Prius.

    It stores 3 liters of HOT coolant in a thermos everytime you power off. Then when you power back on, it pumps that HOT coolant into the head of the engine.

    So without actually even starting the engine, it is already partially warmed up.

    The coolant will remain HOT overnight, and warm for up to 3 days. The thermal storage device is rather impressive.

    JOHN
  • dc8527dc8527 Posts: 12
    "Toyota has told us that the 2004 MY Prius
    (which was redesigned) should achieve fuel economy levels closer to the estimated values.", the test expert of EPA informed me yesterday.
  • cmsct1cmsct1 Posts: 3
    I am currently thinking about purchasing a Prius to replace my current car which is a Pontiac Vibe. I am interested in the opinion of other people in the forum as to whether this is a good choice or not. I currently drive approximately 100 miles per day. Most of which is highway driving. I am impressed by the mpg numbers that are listed for the Prius but wonder how things are in the real world. I currently get anywhere between 29 and 33 mpg with the Vibe but the Prius looks like it could beat that easily. I do live in the Chicago area so I have been following the conversations concerning cold etc. Please let me know what all of you think.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    My classic Prius delivered 45.4 MPG for a 3 year (59,827 mile) average. That boiled down to low 40's in the winter and 50 MPG in the summer.

    My 2004 Prius, despite still being rather new is already revealing itself to deliver even better efficiency.

    So I could easily see your year-round mostly-highway average being in the upper 40's.

    JOHN
  • cmsct1cmsct1 Posts: 3
    John,
    Thanks for your thoughts concerning the MPG issue. You seem to be quite knowledgeable concerning the Prius. Based upon my projected driving needs I would anticipate reaching the 100,000 mile mark sometime around the 4 year period. Do you have any thoughts/concerns about the potential for battery pack maintenance/replacement at or in excess of 100,000 miles. Also, I have located a dealer who is willing to let me have a loaded Prius off of the TRAC program. Should I have any concerns about that kind of an arrangement? Thanks again for sharing all of your vast Prius information with me.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Do you have any thoughts/concerns about the potential
    > for battery pack maintenance/replacement at or in excess
    > of 100,000 miles

    You'll notice, especially on the highway, that the battery-pack is rarely used. Most of the electricity for the motor comes directly from the engine instead.

    You'll also notice that the battery-pack is rarely ever (I never saw it) allowed to dip to the 1/4 mark. The absense of any deep-discharge events helps to insure very long life for the battery-pack.

    All that, along with the number of recharge cycles available, the "lifetime" estimate appears to stand well.

    So my guess is you'll be able to exceed 200,000 miles without a lick of battery-pack trouble, just like the Prius cab driver did in Vancouver.

    JOHN
  • ...to answer a previous inquiry...I just purchased Toyota Extra Care Platinum 7yr/100kMiles/$0deductible for $980. You do not have to buy the warranty at time of vehicle delivery. I did not. I bought this warranty at another dealership. More than anything, I wanted the peace-of-mind with my new Prius.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > John, nor anyone else has any definitive empirical
    > data to determine when the mean time to battery failure
    > will be

    Toyota does. Remember, Prius has been on the road since 1997. And having enough data now is likely why they have begun including "lifetime" in their expectation quotes; originally, they didn't.

     
    > muddy sound

    First, that is just an opinion. Second, you can change the speakers.

     
    > so integrated you can't replace it

    Actually, you can. Several people have because they wanted MP3 support.

     
    > objective opinion

    An opinion is better than real-world data... really?

    JOHN
  • Additional info for your consideration. I've had my Prius for about a month now and driving 33 miles each way from Southern Illinois to St. Louis, Missouri. All but aprx. 2 miles of the drive is on Interstate highways. I typically use the cruise control set at 60MPH. I do frequently hit a stop and go situation during rush hour for a few miles in St. Louis but I've been averaging about 46 miles per gallon.

    I recently refueled at a Phillips 66 (not my usual brand) and saw a slight decrease in average MPG the last couple of days to 44-45MPG. This could also be related to the colder weather since the refuel but I'm just not sure yet.

    Anyway I thought you might find this info useful since it's within your region of operation.
  • "You might want to check out several other real experts such as the recent Car and Driver Prius evaluation"
    Give me a break! Just because a magazine writes about automobiles, who's to say they're real experts? John clearly stated that it was only his "guess" as to the life expectancy of the battery.
  • oldfoxoldfox Posts: 29
    2004 MY Prius? Huh, What? Is this a Joke? Never heard of this.
  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    Any Idea what the crash rating of this vehicle will be...also are insurance rates higher since damage to the battery can be an easy $3000 in replacement cost.

    Mike
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Any Idea what the crash rating

    Don't forget about the accident avoidance data now available for vehicles too. (Some of us prefer not having an accident in the first place.)

    JOHN
  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    Quote from JOHN "The switch from Bridgestone to Goodyear was provide harder rubber. Those original tires wore out very, very fast because they were so soft you could actually leave marks on the road just from making a tight turn. That's a treadwear rating of only 160. The new tires have a treadwear rating of 460, which is a huge improvement."

    Since tire wear appears to be a major problem...tire selection is critical for this vehicle...most snow tires would have soft rubber and thus very adverse wear for this vehicle..

    I assume snow tires with soft rubber compositions are a NO NO for the Prius. This would make alternative replacement tires very difficult as well as limited.

    Does anyone have any experience with using snow tires for this vehicle? Mainly concerned about driving on icy roads. The Goodyear Integrity does not show a good rating for use in snow see TireRack for rating of tires.

    Does anyone know of a good Michelin tire that could be used as a replacement to the Goodyear's?

    Since the small hybrids use relatively small sized tires it appears the tires for hybrids need to be re-engineered for this higher weight small tire combo.

    Thanks, Mike
  • cmsct1cmsct1 Posts: 3
    Tallyid,
    Thanks for your specific information. Your situation is quite similar to mine. Did you have any concerns about the amount of miles you were driving when you made your decision to purchase a Prius? Also, I wanted to thank all of you for your responses relative to this question. They have been most helpful and since I have at least a 3 month wait before making my decision final I welcome any more comments that anyone thinks would be of interest. Once again thanks to everyone for all of their help.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > I assume snow tires with soft rubber compositions
    > are a NO NO for the Prius

    Actually, since treadwear ratings now go all the way up to 800, the much harder 460 still could be considered "soft".

    And sorry, I haven't heard anything about soft rubber being a problem on snow. And since the first December I had my Prius it was the second snowiest Decemeber in Minnesota recorded history, I'd say it isn't a problem. I got through the worst of the snow just fine with those 160's. Perhaps it has more to do with ice instead. (We don't have much of that in Minnesota, since the temperature is well below water's melting-point most of the winter.)

    JOHN
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > ACTUAL MEASUREMENTS

    My data is actual.

    And since discrediting someone is by no means constructive, I'm not going to respond...

    Stick to the facts, please.

    JOHN
  • I'm not sure what you mean about "concern" but the mileage to my work was a definite factor in my decision. I wanted to have an efficient vehicle compared to the Mazda B2300 Pickup I was driving. My wife works in the same area and drives a Subaru Forester. I was actually shopping for a Subaru (our 6th) but don't really fit very well in the new seats they're using.

    Became aware of the 2004 Prius during my first visit to a Toyota dealer. I was actually shopping an Avalon at the time. After hearing about it and test driving one at a St. Louis dealership I decided I could live without all-wheel drive. The Interstates are typically clear except for a few times during the winter and since my wife has the Forester I have a fall back during those times. Since that opened up more options and we both fell in love with the Prius we ordered it. I felt pretty confident since Toyota is typically highly rated by Consumer Reports and one of the only automakers rated higher than Subaru.
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