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Toyota Prius

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Comments

  • m4ethm4eth Posts: 101
    Do you garage your Prius??...or has anyone left the car outdoors??...for example leaving the car at the airport for an extended time during travels when temperatures are very cold...the heated thermos only lasts for 3 days so I wonder if you have extended travel over three days and the car is outside exposed to freezing weather...what happens to the car???...

    Fair Weather can also mean you drive from garage back to garage....temperatures then when parked for extended periods are still above freezing...thus FAIR Weather.

    Mike
  • John - Somewhere I saw how to change the unlocking so all doors unlock but now I can't find it. Can you re-post it?
  • All:

    I drove the prius this morning and the temperature was -23 degrees C . I drove it slowly as I do most cars when they are cold but the wierd thing was how the engine revved really high even though I was at a low speed ( 35 km/h). It felt like the gears were slipping. As the car warmed up (10 minutes) the "high-revvingness & slippage" went away.

    Anyone experienced this?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    at those temperatures the CVT fluid has frozen and the CVT couldn't "shift" out of low range. Years ago in Alaska even the power steering fluid froze.
  • I found it-
    Simultaneously push and hold the top button nd the panic button for 5 or 15 seconds or somewhere in between and it will start cycling through 3 options. Just play with it for a while and you'll figure it out.
  • I have also noticed the high reving ICE when the car is cold when driving out of my garage and onto the street. I have also noticed that first thing in the morning when the car is stopped at the first stop light on my way to work, I feel it lurching (or shuddering) while I have my foot on the brake. I wonder what these "symptoms" really mean. I figure they are just charactersitics of the Prius and I am not going to worry about it. John? any thoughts on these incidents? You must have felt these "symptoms" on your Prius have you not?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    The high revs is because you are braking harder than normal in the cold. In the previous design, that set you up for a potential automated stall/restart sequence. In the 2004, it is simply avoided by revving the engine. It's just way the Planetary-CVT is setup.

    You'll also discover higher RPM sometimes when driving cruising along in the cold. Since the system has to generate heat anyway, it takes advantage of that and recharges the battery-pack more than normal. Measurements have shown that greater amperage is allowed to flow through in the winter than in the summer, allowing you to take greater advantage of the electric motor. The thought is, because it's cold there is no worry about keeping the battery-pack cool.

    That lurching while stopped at a intersection during warmup is a bit odd. I've felt it too, and it wasn't there with my classic. The system is apparently doing more than simply moving pistons. It might have something to do with the secondary coolant circulation. After the head of the engine is warmed (using the coolant stored in the thermos), the remaining hot stuff if flushed to the lower part.

    JOHN
  • This is a simple question to answer. Those who like to load up their car with outdoor stuff, the Forester is a hands down winner. Loading bikes, kayaks, snowboard on the Prius via external racks defeats the aerodynamics of the car. Yes your can find some ways to load up the Prius from the outside but I think Japanese engineers designed the Prius to be more of a people transport car. It would be interesting though to see a Prius zooming by with a Kayak attached at the top of the roof.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > I think Japanese engineers designed the Prius to be more
    > of a people transport car

    The fact that it's a hatchback clearly indicates otherwise. Just drive with the back seats down for awhile. You'll discover just how much cargo you can get back there, without having to compromise aerodynamics. Tossing a bike back there is effortless (two takes some wiggling, but is realistic).

    The attempt to cross-class compare Prius to another vehicle has never worked. People have been attempting to for many, many years though.

    Prius offers far more utility abilities than a sedan, but it is clealy not built for typical towing or typical roof-top cargo carrying. It can, but in general that's not what it was designed for.

    > It would be interesting though to see a Prius zooming by
    > with a Kayak attached at the top of the roof.

    Not really. I used to carry an aluminum canoe on my Omni. That was larger cargo on a smaller vehicle. It worked fine. No big deal.

    JOHN
  • On Friday, I went from Fresno to Orange County, in Cailf. I set the cruise @ 65,and it was 70 degrees outside and I had about 1 hour of stop and go traffic in down town LA. I went 290 miles. It took just 5.54 gals. That's 52.3 MPG.The 04 Prius got the best MPG in stop and go traffic. I went over 30 min and got 100 MPG for that whole time. Today when I left it was 70 outside,and I was getting in the low 50's, for Mpg, but it got cold and foggy,my Mpg went to45MPG,Yes from 70 to 45 and foggy will make your MPG go down! I saw it happen in 10 min!
  • John:

    Are those real concrete facts or are you rationalizing(guessing) the actions of the prius on cold starts?

    Why would a prius use the brakes harder in cold weather? I was driving on cleared roads. Did not have to apply any more pressure than necessary.

    The car would acutally know to rev higher in colder temperatures? Could it be that the is reving higher to heat the engine faster?

    I'm suprised texassalas's prius is high reving. Aren't you in Texas where it is quite mild?
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Are those real concrete facts

    I used the word "apparently" for a reason. (That means very likely based on design, but we can't find proof for that exact condition.)

     
    > Why would a prius use the brakes harder in cold weather?

    Ice, Snow, another vehicle...

     
    > The car would acutally know to rev higher in colder
    > temperatures? Could it be that the is reving higher
    > to heat the engine faster?

    This is an increase in addition to the higher RPM attributed to normal cold weather warmup. It's pretty obvious, since it occurs the exact moment you exceed standard braking pressure. Nothing surprising, since the operation of the vehicle doesn't change.

    JOHN
  • Actually my wife and I have both of these vehicles now. We are a die-hard Subaru family and she has the 2004 Forester XS. I replaced my Mazda B2300 Pickup with the 2004 Prius. We've always had at least one Subaru because of their reliability and now the all-wheel drive for our current occasional winter conditions. Honestly though we've only had a couple of occasions per winter that the Transportation Department couldn't get the Interstates cleared well enough for any reasonably cautious driver in nearly any vehicle.

    I think you're going to need to decide what you need your vehicle to do and then make your decision based on that. In my opinion the most significant factor is the actual road conditions you'll be encountering. Obviously the Forester has higher clearance (7 - 8 inches I believe) and is more suitable for "off road" conditions. If the roads you're using are reasonably well maintained and level the gravel surface shouldn't be an issue for a Prius.

    Some questions I'd be asking myself. How often will I be "off road"? What are the worst case conditions I intend to encounter? Will I require all-wheel drive, etc.?

    While the Prius is as versatile as any sedan in my opinion, it is not an SUV or off-road vehicle. It's primarily a commuter vehicle like any other mid-size sedan.

    If I can provide any specifics on either vehicle please let me know and good luck in your decision.
  • Yes, here in the Dallas area, we have had some very temperate winter temperatures. Highs in the low to mid 60s and lows in the 40s...we have had a couple of cold snaps in the 20s and 30s but it just has not gotten that cold yet. My Prius is garaged and in the morning it gets warmed up pretty fast. Yes, I do get high revs and lurches even in this temperate climate...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I will start by saying I test drove and thoroughly enjoyed the Prius, and think a hybrid SUV or minivan just might be in my future, I was that impressed.

    However, I always say "The Right Tool for the Job", and let's face it, the one to carry bikes and kayaks on gravel roads in winter weather is the Subaru, hands down, no comparison.

    Look at the all weather/terrain features of the XS model that are relevant to this shopper:

    * AWD
    * rear limited-slip differential
    * heated seats
    * heated side mirrors
    * front windshield wiper de-icer
    * rear windshield wiper de-icer
    * 7.5" ground clearance
    * long travel suspension
    * 150 lbs roof rack capacity
    * full size spare tire

    Get the Prius for efficient commuting, the Forester for the outdoor stuff you say you'll be doing.

    Want a compromise?

    Check out the PZEV Subaru Outback in California. You give up a tiny bit of HP (163hp overall) to get PZEV emissions. So an Outback with the AWP would be a good compromise between the two, and you can buy one for under $20 grand.

    Until the Hybrid Highlander arrives, that's about it.

    -juice
  • Yes - you read that correctly. We're thinking of purchasing a used 2004 Prius, but have some tax questions. My understanding is that the $2,000 is a deduction, so the current owner gets to deduct $2,000 from their income, thereby receiving a tax break of approximately 30% on that $2,000 (assuming they're in the 30% tax bracket - about $600). But what about state taxes? If the state income tax is approximately 5%, and they use the federal adjusted gross income on the state form, then they essentially get an *additional* tax break of approximately 5% on the $2,000 ($100)? So the total financial benefit would be $700. Have I calculated that correctly?

    And can anyone think of any financial reason why I shouldn't do this if we pay what she paid for it originally (minus the tax break, that is)?

    Thanks.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Looking forward to more Owners information and experiences

    There were a few in "Parade", that color magazine included in Sunday newspapers throughout the country. On page 12 of the January 11, 2004 edition is a bunch of hybrid related stuff. On page 13 are comments from me. Check it out!

    JOHN
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    FYI - a number of posts were removed as they were:

    -detracting from the conversation and off-topic
    -personal attacks that were uncivil

    Come on folks, agree to disagree and move on. The Prius is a fantastic car with interesting and innovative technology. Prospective buyers are here looking for information, let's put our personal best foot forward and help them out by staying on topic.
  • From the 2004 Prius Owner's Manual.
    Page 114- The gauge indicates the approximate quantity of fuel remaining in the tank when the IG-ON mode is enabled. Depending on the ambient temperature, the fuel quantity is less than 45 L (11.9 gal.) even at "F". However this does not effect the fuel consumption and the remaining fuel ratio indicated on the gauge.
    Page 204- The fuel tank capacity is decreased at low ambient temperature. (decrease by about 5 L (1.3 gal) at 14F.
  • geogirlgeogirl Posts: 24
    Arachne,
    It is my understanding that the vehicle must be new to get the tax deduction i.e., only the first owner gets the tax deduction.

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml

    Also if the vehicle is purchased this year, the fed. tax deduction has decreased to $1500, but I agree with your assessment of decreased taxes on the state level because of the federal tax deduction. It actually might even be more if your state offers any tax incentives. For example, Colorado is giving a tax credit of $2678.
    http://www.revenue.state.co.us/fyi/pdf/income09.
    pdf
  • Thanks for that info. I haven't read the entire manual yet and didn't even check into that portion before complaining to Toyota. I'm still going to question them regarding their response that "3-4 gallons of diminished capacity has been reported and not considered a defect."

    They replied that they would be looking into the matter and would communicate further information to the dealerships.
  • hans000hans000 Posts: 19
    I am convinced the "lurching" (or shrudder) while stopped is caused by AC compressor. When I adjusted the temperature down to the point the blower slows, the shrudder was gone.

    Looks like the AC runs for both warm and cool.

    ===============
    jone1701a wote:
    That lurching while stopped at a intersection during warmup is a bit odd. I've felt it too, and it wasn't there with my classic. The system is apparently doing more than simply moving pistons. It might have something to do with the secondary coolant circulation. After the head of the engine is warmed (using the coolant stored in the thermos), the remaining hot stuff if flushed to the lower part.

    JOHN
  • that is an interesting piece of info. Thanks. I'll test it out tomorrow morning. I will probably shut down the "Auto A/C" mode completely and just run the fans on low to see if this is it.

    If "Auto A/C" is the cause, I wonder if it will do the same in the summer time when I run the A/C to cool the car down? Hmmm...
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    Don't forget that motor & invertor have a cooling system. Fluids continue to be pumped through/around them regardless of whether or not the engine is running.

    In my classic, I could very clearly feel when that pump shut off. (In my 2004, it's hard to tell since I haven't driven in any warm weather yet.) A cycling operation when it's needed could easily produce a feel too.

    JOHN
  • ...my battery charge display typically shows 1 to 2 bars below full so I don't believe it's due to low battery capacity.

    Personally, I don't mind the lurch and other quirks of the Prius as long as it is not detrimental to the car.

    On another note, soon the Lexus 400H will be released with HSD, I wonder how much of the quirks Lexus buyers will be able to stand since they are "luxury" minded people. Lexus are known for quiet and smooth operating vehicles. I would think that 400H buyers will be even more picky with their high dollar SUVs than we are with our Prius. I would love to peek into a future 400H forum and have a look at what they have to say about their purchases...
  • hans000hans000 Posts: 19
    The battery was 3/4+. ICE not running for sure. A house window AC unit shrudders. It's electric.

    It's a rocking motion like the compressor is going through on-off cycle every few seconds. Also possible the compressor was running very, very slow. It must also happen while driving, just less noticeable.

    ========
    midnightcowboy wrote:

    The Air Conditioner doesn't run off the engine so there shouldn't be any shuddering under the normal sense of a belt drive air conditioner.

    The only thing that makes sense is that it draws enough current that it causes the HSD to go into a battery charge mode.
  • hans000hans000 Posts: 19
    The battery was 3/4+. ICE not running for sure. A house window AC unit shrudders. It's electric.

    It's a rocking motion like the compressor is going through on-off cycle every few seconds. Also possible the compressor was running very, very slow. It must also happen while driving, just less noticeable.

    ========
    midnightcowboy wrote:

    The Air Conditioner doesn't run off the engine so there shouldn't be any shuddering under the normal sense of a belt drive air conditioner.

    The only thing that makes sense is that it draws enough current that it causes the HSD to go into a battery charge mode.
  • I've seen a picture, not high res, of the 400H speedometer and it has what looks like a traditional analog gauge. The Tach has been replaced by a "juice" meter, showing how much electrical current is put back into the HSD system while you are driving, etc.. it also looks like an analog gauge. I have also seen pictues of the instrument cluster for the Highlander and it does not look too bad. I did not download the pics because they were not high res types.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,746
    The traditional meaning of a "beta" version of a product is a product that is functionally complete, but may have some unresolved quality issues--including a partial implementation of a rarely-used function. The purpose of a beta test is to test the product through a controlled, actual implementation, and also to allow customers to get a preview of an upcoming product. Based on that definition, there is no way the '04 Prius could be a "beta" version of the 400h. The two vehicles have some similarity due to the design of their HSD systems, but are unlike each other in so many other ways that they are clearly two distinct products--one could not be the "beta" version of the other. However, I would venture an educated guess that Toyota did have "beta" version(s) of the Prius (I mean the "Classic" version) running around before the vehicle was offered to the general public. Perhaps someone (like John) who knows more about the history of the Prius could comment on that.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    happened to get one of these as a rental, and have had it for a couple of days. I can see the big steps Toyota has made with this model versus the first one. As before, my mileage is well below the EPA rating, but I am not surprised. I have done better than the old car, however, and seem to be getting about 46 mpg - 400 miles so far. What are owners averaging in regular round-town driving?

    If I were to buy one, could I put larger (205/60) tires on it, or would there be issues with the power steering unit, or tires not fitting in the wheel wells? I am aware that larger tires would reduce fuel economy.

    The only thing I didn't like in the first one that has carried over is that all the climate controls and the radio display are incorporated in the NAV screen/HSD display. I wish they would have a regular radio at least - I change the station a lot!

    But wow! This one is a lot faster than the "classic"! And the brakes have smoothed out a lot. It is more like a high-tech transportation pod than a car.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

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