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Audi A3

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  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "Dodge SRT-4, Chevrolet Impala SS, etc. are FWD and over 300 Hp. Biggest problem seems to be torque steer, which can be controlled with equal halfshafts and proper tire choice."

    Don't believe it. Unless by "controlled" you mean slightly minimized, then torque steer is a fact of life with any front driver with any appreciable amount of horse power.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    Hope: AOA brings the S3 to the US. Question: as much as people (including me) have griped about the cost of the 3.2, how many people do you think will pay around $40k for the S3????

    Fantasy: AOA brings the RS3 to the US for even more money. How many will pay even more for that car???

    Best hope: German aftermarket maker Oettinger brings blower kit to US (raises power in the 2.0T to almost 300 ponies). Good luck on making use of that kind of power without quattro.

    Anyone even fantasizing about 500 ponies in the A3 needs to be committed. That is 150 more ponies than the RS3 and would only belong on a race track.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,747
    Ever notice what all car mags including Edmunds __and_ the swelling Tuner market ask for? MORE POWER !!! Voila, the mfrs are obliging them!

    We already have a Pontiac Solstice making over 400 HP (via aftermarket house). GM's less muscled version at over 300 Hp is expected to be a sellout. Mercedes muscled AMG cars sell well too, despite their high price.

    How many USA'ed RS3 Quattros would Audi have to sell in order to make a profit (assuming all they need to do is drop the bigger engine and rugged-ized drivetrain into the USA A3 spec body)?

    Supposed Audi sold this RS3 Quattro at $49K but included __all__ the options _and_ tuned it so it blows off a Corvette Z06 or other similar_classed sports car? Would this now most powerful, luxurious compact hatchback on the planet sell? Yes, indeed.
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    I disagree. The car is a hatch and the A3 is already the most expensive hatch on the US market. Americans have traditionally not liked hatches. The RS3 could blow away a Vette and people still wouldn't buy it. A Vette looks the part of a sports car and the A3 doesn't.

    Price this car at $49k and Audi's own S4 becomes a competitor as well as a bunch of other cars like the M3, etc The RS3 would not do well against those cars.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,747
    But would that S4 have the 400 Hp+ motor I suggested for the super RS3 Quattro?
    Anyway, back to reality :shades: ;

    Seriously, cc1, you've a good point; I forgot America dislikes hatches (euros love them!). But maybe tide is turning; most people seeing my Maxx praised its looks, and it's uglier than A3!

    If Audi does bring over the "S's" and they sell well, then that's a victory of HP over hatch. We'll see! ;)
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    The S4 get 340hp from its V-8, the RS4 gets 420hp. The V-8 barely fit into the A4 after a bunch of modifications to make it shorter. I doubt it would ever fit into the A3. Since the "RS" cars are Audi's stupidly fast cars, 350hp is probably close to the max hp you can get out of the 6 cylnder engine.

    The 3.2 will have to be a hit before we see any "S" version of the A3. If there aren't enough people to spring for the 3.2, then the S3 and RS3 will never get off the ground. The S3 is hitting european showrooms in the Fall, so figure on the 2008 model year as the 1st possible year of introduction into the US. But I wouldn't count on it.

    As a hatch, I think there will always be a limit on what Americans will pay for the car. However...make it a little larger and shape it like its Roadjet concept car and it begins to look like a CUV. You could break a few price barriers with a car like that. There are plenty of CUVs in the $30-40k range like the Nissan Murano and more on the way. The current A3 is too small to pull this off.

    I know this is mostly a matter of perception as the lines between a hatch, CUV and small wagon can get very blurry. But Americans will pay more for a CUV than either a small wagon or a hatch. Witness the Infinity FX.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,747
    the Malibu Maxx, if Saab took it over and reworked it with premium interior, an OHV V6 with direct injection, and a more european ride/handling emphasis, could be a viable "Big Brother" to the A3. But it won't happen.

    Sadly, Audi's limited focus on the 3.2's market range may prove limiting for the number of buyers they get. A more touring oriented suspension would sell me, but it's not available, period.

    Is the current Audi A3 3.2 a hit? Are they flying off dealers lots?
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    The 3.2s in my area are definitely not flying off dealer lots. My sense is that they move slowly, but is not a big deal since most dealers have only 1 or 2 at any given time.
    No one stocks a bunch of these cars. The 2.0s are MUCH more plentiful.

    The 3.2 is an S-line in Audi nomenclature which means its intended to be sporty. Hence the choice of suspension. As you go into the "S" and "RS" models, you get more performance that is less suited for daily driving. IOW, the focus becomes more limited as you go to the "S" and "RS". All the more reason not to bring these cars into the US without great demand for the 3.2. Even if these models make it to the US, you can bank on the suspension being as firm as the 3.2 or firmer.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Firmer! Much.

    And lower. RS4s ride 1.2" lower than their S4 counterparts, which already ride 5mm lower (IIRC) than the A4 S-line brethren, which ride 10mm lower than their std A4 siblings. They also track a minimum of 2" wider than a typical A4. I'd expect the RS3 to be set up pretty much the same way.

    Makes me all sweaty just thinking about it.

    We won't see an RS3 here, I don't think. Too bad, says I.
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    I agree that we won't see the RS3.

    Now if I was king err...head of AOA, I'd try to sell HQ on the idea of selling the A3 in the US as follows:

    A3 2.0

    A3 2.0 S-Line

    S3

    However the US, S3 would be a RS3 detuned to 300 hp, sort of halfway between the European S3 and RS3 and would come with no options, just loaded for around $40k (Hey, a guy can dream, can't he?). I'd use my S3 as a showcase for Audi technology and try to get people hooked on the options for purchases of future Audis. This car will never happen, but it would sure stop all complaints that there isn't enough difference between the 2.0 and 3.2 to justify the added cost.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Yes!

    A 2.0T Q S-line chipped up to 255, though. As long as the base 2.0T was a Q, of course.

    Tis a marvelous way with words ye have, ccd1, truly!
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,747
    I'd modify the choice by allowing the AE 3.2 S to have option for a touring suspension (charge for it if necessarry - if charge is reasonable I'd cough up) with a little more suspension travel and different springs/valving. Also use the 2.0 wheels and maybe take a _little_ flash out of the interior. Leave out some of the options (reserve 'em for the S).

    That would allow Audi to plant a version of their 3.2 at those who would otherwise go Subi, Toyota or others near that price range. The 3.2 S would remain for those who don't want to compromise.
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,747
    although one site claimed Mazda had a 5 door with AWD, apparently that's not so. So comp's down to Subi and Mitsubi, I guess.
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    The comfy suspension would go in the A3 and S-line A3. By the time you get to my 3.2, it's a firm sports suspension all the way. It's not a compromise car
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Hey, hey, HEY!

    Just you keep your "comfy suspension" off of my S-Line 255hp 2.0TQ! :mad: Sport suspension or die, says I! Leave the cushy junk on the base model and let them option a lux package.

    By the time you get to the 3.2Q, it's the RS's Dynamic Ride Control, a little heavier damping, perhaps some extra bracing and thicker bars for the upgrade. Oh and wider track of course!
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    Wale:

    Not a problem. I want to keep my imaginary customers happy! lol!

    The shame is, properly priced, this would work in the real world.
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    "Not a problem. I want to keep my imaginary customers happy! lol!"

    Thank you. Where do I sign? I'm sending all my biz to CCD.Audi.com from now on...
  • kurtamaxxxguykurtamaxxxguy Posts: 1,747
    read __carefully__; Touring suspension __option__, Not "comfy" suspension option, for a __version__ of the A3 Quattro. One that handles well but doesn't kick you in the butt over small bumps.
    That would be an __option__. The customer wanting it pays __extra__. Those who want the 3.2 __as it is__ pay nothing extra.

    Also, Audi __should__ offer the RS suspension option _and_ the S-class engines for those who want true track handling in their 3.2's. How about that, wale?
  • wale_bate1wale_bate1 Posts: 1,986
    Kurt, a "touring suspension" is a marketing gimic from Buick and Lexus and the ilk; a loosely interpreted bit of buzz gleaned from the glory years of Ferrari and Maserati, that means virtually nothing in real world driving terms today. The current sport suspension from Audi is precisely what a real "touring suspension" should be.

    The standard suspension should be just fine for anyone looking for comfort.
  • ccd1ccd1 Posts: 140
    Kurt:

    Let me back up my customer wale. What makes the 3.2 special is the entire package, including the S-line suspension. You get out of that car and step into just about anything else and the differences are immediate. All these other cars, Volvo V50s, the small Bimmer wagon, RAV4 are fast wagons. The 3.2 is a sports car with added cargo area. There is nothing quite like it near its price range. You want comfy suspensions? Get the CCD 2.0 which Audi actually offers. My S-line gets a firm suspension just as Audi actually does and the S3 gets even firmer, again like Audi actually does.

    The soft suspension is for all those imposters: touring cars posing as sports cars. You want a sports car, then you have to accept what it takes to be a sports car. Great handling requires a firm suspension.

    The CCD line is not being marketed to the masses; my S-line and S3 is for the true afficianados.
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