Lexus RX 400h and 450h

use2sellcars

a Dealership doesn't buy the RX400 at MSRP from the factory so they can sell it higher. Every dealership pays the same, so the salesman was lying to you. Now, they can buy the car from another dealership at MSRP, but no other dealership will sell their Hybrids to another dealership. One dealership i know of is putting on Lojack, chrome wheels( the factory wheels are nice which is too bad the dealership is taking them off to put on the RX330 chrome), and some other stuff and charging almost 60k for the car.

If you can buy the car at MSRP, then you got yourself a great deal. But that's al ot of money to pay for a car that gets just a bit better gas mileage

use2sellcars

Did you try to put the seat down? if your wife had the seat up (by lifting longish lever- six way control up from the back) you'll need to push the long lever from the back end down to push the seat "down and out" thus giving you more room. hopefully my diagram works...

six way control backrest adjustment lumbar control
^* seat up and down


(----------------) II 0--0

See if that works.

krellu

I just came back from the dealer. flint mica/black.heated seats.I will have it this monday 04/25.

pinzabu

Hi,

I have been reading carefully on this forum and speaking with the dealership, who tells me that the allotment is postponed, but I am not clear why?

What is the reason? Quality control, held up at the docks? still in the factory being built? dealership not being 100% on the level? Any? All? none of the above.

This is all very new to me, buying a new car, and one that is in such demand, that it has a waiting list. :confuse: TIA L

wwest

Since I find the GPS/Nav system to be just untrustworthy enough that I can hardly ever bring myself to depend on it I simply leave the Nav DVD door open. That's the only way I have found to avoid the "I agree" on each and every startup.

I bought a wireless remote control relay so I could "open" and "close" the DVD door from the drivers seat in transit but haven't bothered to install it yet.

skyfish400h

So the “Agree” screen only prevents access to the NAV features, I guess that’s better. Still don’t think one should have to agree with it every single time, but then my handheld GPS unit does the same thing.

As far as the “gears” go... I understand the CVT part. What I was looking for was more of a golf cart feel to the accelerator pedal while in the B position. In other words, the electric motors would have a more pronounce braking effect on deceleration. This would give the driver more control of the speed without having to use the brake pedal to slow down. Drivers of manual transmissions are familiar with engine braking as a way to prevent overheating the brakes on curvy down hill runs. I use the same practice with an automatic by selecting 2nd.

The unevenness of the braking must be because of the transitions to/from electric motor braking and brake pad braking. I can see this transition becoming more noticeable as the brake pads and rotors wear in.

The dealer is making thousands on the sale of each of these vehicles because they are selling at MSRP rather than a markup over invoice. The ones loaded with the ML Sound and the DVD system have even more profit in them. That should be enough. I don’t intend to pay $3000 for $200 worth of chrome work just so that I can drive around on rims that look the same as the RX330. Nor am I going to pay them $1 over MSRP to get the rims that come with the car standard.

What I am willing purchase at the dealer are the Lexus Tow hitch (because I prefer the aesthetics over the Hidden Hitch design), the mud guards, the protective film over the front areas, and possibly the big rubber mat for the back cargo area. BTW, the big rubber mat can be had from JC Whitney for about $60 plus shipping, so the dealer price would have to be competitive.

rocky7

I am new and hope I am stupid and missing something.

Just picked up RX 400h on Saturday.

Was just reviewing Bluetooth setup and features. Looks like features such as dialing phone and receiving calls "cannot be operated while driving".

What do I not understand, or what what use is the Bluetooth feature on a Lexus.

According to my owners manaual I cannot dial, use the phone book, receive calls, call, or talk on a Bluetooth phone while driving.

If I have to stop vehicle to use my cell phone this is worthless.

Please confirm or set me straight.

cyclone4

Rocky7 you are not quite correct. It is true that you cannot dial from the phone book while driving. However, you can set up 18 (I think that's the maximum number) auto dial numbers and names. Thus, all you need to do is touch this list and pick out the name or number from the list while driving and bingo. To receive an incoming call while driving, all you do is click the receive call button on the steering wheel and you're in business. The reason it will not allow you to browse through a phone book while driving is due to safety concerns. Some say, that you should have the option, but think about how dangerous this can be. It would be nice if the bluetooth phone could pick out any name on the phone book by voice command, but I don't think it does this. Once you learn how to program the bluetooth phone, you will enjoy it a lot. Good luck!

rocky7

cyclone4.

Thanks for your feedback. If I can do what you suggest, I can live with that.

markatty

Anyone seen an RX 400 in the wild. I keep looking, but haven't seen one yet.

Here's the differences I've noticed.

From the front:
Trim in grill is horizontal in 400 versus vertical in RX330.
Fog lights are circular and don't wrap around bumper as in the RX330
Air vent in top of bumper
The wheel well flair is different, but I can't tell

Side only the lack of wrap around fog light cover

Back
The RX400 badge
The rear lights are LEDs, but this difference is hard to see. (I wonder if you can see this at night.)

Any others that are readily noticable?

Also this seems to be the busiest 400 forum are there any others that get daily posts?

exfrog

I just drove from Omaha to LA and got 19 mpg going about 80 but reached 24 mpg by the time I got to LA. Obviously, the engine needs to be broken in.
I have driven many times thru rhe Rockies with numerous cars but have never driven a car like the 400h that doesn't lose a thing during elevation changes. At 80 mph I gave it more gas and actually felt the power surge on my shoulders. You people complaining about starting time are doing something wrong. Mine goes on in less than two seconds. Lou

larsb

Just a word of note to the owners feeling a little blue about low MPG numbers:

be patient

The EXACT SAME THING happened with the Accord Hybrid in December - but now most of those owners, after a few thousand miles, are seeing numbers they expected.

New cars take a little bit of time to "break in" and get the friction levels inside the internal engine parts lowered to normal levels. In addition, if you are in areas with a little colder climate, "warmup" is an issue in that ALL internal combustion engines take a few minutes to reach "optimal engine operation temps" which will allow for most efficient fuel burning.

Also: Winter formula fuels used in most states hold less energy and this also hurts MPG, and most states have not completed the switch yet.

In addition, Hybrid owners who "want to play the game" and who make an effort to learn how to use the gauges to achieve max mpg efficiency can do that. My first tank was 38.4 MPG in my 2004 HCH back in July 2004, and my last six tanks have averaged 52.4 mpg.

So hang in there, it WILL get better !!!

cyclone4

That is good information larsb. Thanks! My wife and I just picked the 400h up this PM. This is for her, but she says, she will let me drive it once in a while. What a fantastic machine!

callmedrfill

Who gets EPA mileage anyway?

Prius' get mid 40's, so EPA is even worse at predicting Hybrid economy than they are at conventional engines.

Since Lexus tuned this setup for performance, not economy, and many owners are driving to feel the extra power, not driving conservatively to improve economy, I'd expect 20MPG numbers for the first 6 months, and around 25 after that.

Remember, Hybrids like stop and go better than highway, as the gas engine is used less in city driving.

V8 power and 25MPG sounds sweet to me! Enjoy it! Please?

DrFill

tsotsi

After reading that Toyota is charging $400 to replace the 12 volt battery (not the main battery) used in their Prius I am becoming concerned that price gouging on hybrid-specific parts may destroy resale values once the guarantee runs out. For example, Lexus dealers must have parts books since they are selling the RX400h and should be willing to tell buyers how much the nifty electric A/C compressor would cost to replace. I understand that it may be expensive to replace the main battery after eight years or so and that does not deter me. What does bother me is the thought that older hybrids may become completely unsaleable at some point if there are too many other expensive parts that will need replacing.

Is there a dealer out there who can offer a little reassurance?

wwest

six months to break in the ICE on a hybrid when my 2001 Porsche C4 averaged 26MPH on the Autobahn the week I picked it up and my 2001 AWD RX300 has had basically the same MPG since new?

Restarts while sitting and conversing.

The A/C system isn't reversing, not a heat pump.

hongcho

and expecting to get a good mpg is a bit too much, isn't it? Maybe, it's just me.

Hong.

larsb

Does not take quite six months, but it does take a few thousand miles for almost every car to get past the engine break-in period. Maybe your Porche and Lexus had better fitting engine components and it took less time for the friction to get shaved away.

Anyone who rebuilds engines can attest that the "engine friction break-in period" is not a myth.

Hybrids also start achieving higher MPG numbers over time because the owners learn to use the tools to max their mpg, not only because of the friction break-in period.

gagrice

Hybrids also start achieving higher MPG numbers over time because the owners learn to use the tools to max their mpg

I think that is more important than breakin periods. Driving style has a lot to do with high mileage.

stevedebi

"The EXACT SAME THING happened with the Accord Hybrid in December - but now most of those owners, after a few thousand miles, are seeing numbers they expected."

Yes, but the Accord Hybrid was designed specifically to lower the aerodynamics of the car, plus using lighter metals, even not having a spare tire. These things were done to increase the MPG.

The RX400 has a high profile, and that is going to drag down the MPG on the highway, decreasing the MPG as the speed increases. Also, the HSD is less helpful at highway speeds than in citiy driving.

26 MPG at 80 MPH is not too bad for a luxury SUV. However, my 2003 CR-V gets 27 MPG at 80 MPH. But the RX would far outstrip my 22 MPG city, and of course there is no comparison in terms of luxury and comfort.

TANSTAAFL, the RX is an V6 SUV, not a high MPG I4 sedan.

anthonyp

I wonder if the owners of the hybred Lexus are in all honesty getting the gas savings we are all expecting....I am sure the car is good quality and all are pleased with that, just no one has really reported how they feel about the economy part...Thanks Tony

dukeofurl

I've had my rx400 for a week now and seem to be getting a little over 200 miles on half a tank. I've reset the mpg gauge a number of times, mostly driving along the hopelessly clogged 101 in north LA, and my numbers are hovering in the mid-20s, at best. It's definitely a massive step up from my guttonous Explorer, but still a bit of a let-down from high expectations. Other than that, the car is almost perfect, but has anyone else noticed the occasional shudder under your seat when the engine shuts off while idling?

I am looking about for a compatible Bluetooth phone for the navigation system, info which I guess the dealership thinks people will shell out $90 to $300 for via some outsourced service, depending on just how damned rich and lazy they are (Hey! Free phonebook transfer included!). I figure there has to be someone else on this forum trying to get the same 411 by now... Any luck? I'm looking for Sprint, but if there's a real difference in phones or companies, I could always switch.

dukeofurl

I am 6'4" and I'm finding the RX400 is fine legroomwise. Not quite as roomy side to side as my Explorer was, but I'm surprised you're finding it cramped.

anthonyp

Thank you all for the response....Please keep us up to date as time goes on....Tony

headless

I have cingular with a treo 650...works great with bluetooth...highly recommend..still have to figure out how to transfer phone book though...otherwise, they link seemlessly!

Headless

wwest

Lexus has been advertising the RX400h as a PERFORMANCE vehicle, V8 torque and HP from a 3.3L v6 engine. The RX400h is not one for fuel economy.

Now, some facts.

The 3.3L V6 in the hybrid is DETUNED vs the 3.3L in the RX330.

Hear that?

Your RX400h ICE is DETUNED.

And just what good are the batteries and the electric motors when cruising down the freeway at a constant speed?

NONE!

The Toyota Hybrid design is in fact detrimental to good fuel economy for highway cruising. The hybrid CVT uses the front electric motor to constantly maintain, "adjust", the ratio between the input shaft from the motor and the output shaft driving the front wheels. How much electric power does that front motor require, constantly, as you cruise at say, 70MPH?

And where does that electric power come from as you cruise down the highway?

From the batteries initially until they need to be charged and now that detuned ICE is driving the front wheels directly and the front motor indirectly via a very lossy battery recharge cycle/path.

But let's be fair here.

The Toyota hybrid system is NOT at its best at highway cruise. Never was, never will be.

The ONLY advantage to the Toyota hybrid design is in recovering the power from the momentum of the vehicle as you slow or brake to a stop. In the Prius the overall equation works out quite well. Small, low weight vehicle, not marketed to boy racer types by any means.

The RX400h. Heavy, LARGE, high wind resistance.

Takes a lot of torque to get it up and moving from a full stop. Obviously more torque required than could be recovered during that last stop.

So, good luck.

tsotsi

Lexus has issued warnings about the effect of leaving hybrids in storage -- that is without the battery getting a charge -- for more than a few weeks. I wonder if maybe the trip from Japan may be long enough to affect Lexus RX400h batteries. It could be that after being charged and discharged a few times mileage will improve. The cars journalists tested were probably flown in.

About the charge indicator . . . I believe the software is written to leave some capacity in the battery so that energy generated from braking can be stored. If you think about it, if the gasoline engine kept it at full charge, regenerative braking would be a bust. In fact, I have always wondered what happens driving down a mountain. After a few miles of regenerative braking the battery must be fully charged. What happens with the braking then?

I think we all have a lot to learn about how these complex machines work and it is going to take a lot longer than two weeks. Lexus has been testing them for years and must know the answers even if the dealers don't . . . yet.

headless

Good points about the battery...not sure if a battery has a breakin period like a motor, but who knows?

As long as it doesn't have to be fully charged all the time, my question is answered...it never goes too low, so I guess all is okay...forgot about regenerative breaking and coasting having a charging effect on the battery....need 'space' just in case coasting down big mountain and breaking while going!

I'll keep tabs on the mileage and report with each fill-up...

Headless

dylan hixon

-Detuned engines are more efficient, not less, since a gasoline engine's efficiency for a given power output relates mostly to the percent of full load that you are using. (No, detuned does not mean "make less efficient", it means reduce peak power in exchange for some other desired charateristic like efficiency, low end torque, et cetera)

-If hybrids are bad on the highway, why does the RX400h have a higher highway MPG rating than the 330 despite its higher power and higher weight? One answer is that CVT's increase efficiency by allowing the engine to run at lower speeds than practical with a geared transmission. At those lower engine speeds, you will be using a larger percent of the full load power (engines make less power at lower rpms). I will test this by installing a tach in my RX400h.

-The 400h has 175kW of electric motors, on both axles (125kW front and 50kW rear), the Prius has only 50kW on the front. The 400h also has bigger batteries, and does not even weigh twice what the Prius does, so it will do a better job capturing braking energy.

-Yes, it is a large, high performance SUV (CUV), but it does have the same combined mileage estimate as a 4 cylinder Toyota Camry, and that is a pretty damned good combination of capabilities.

wwest

Yes, that is sometimes true.

On the highway, the slower the ICE will run (lowered frictional and pumping losses) and still produce enough HP to move the vehicle at a reasonable highway speed the better the fuel economy will be. Obviously by using the batteries to SUPERCHARGE the performance aspects of the vehicle the engine need not produce peak HP at higher RPMs required of the RX330.

But if the detuning impacts the engine's ability at these lower RPMs (2000, 2250??) then obviously the fuel economy will suffer. Do any of us know that the RX400h's engine detuning aspects do not adversely impact engine efficiency at cruising RPMs??

Why wasn't the atkinson cycle used like in the Prius and the Ford Escape's Toyota hybrid designs. Strictly on paper that would yield another ~20% in fuel economy even at highway cruise speeds. The atkinson cycle is simply another method of detuning an engine. For instance an atkinson cycle engine could not be turbocharged since a much higher level of the fuel energy is expended within the combustion chamber.

krellu

I recall several months ago reading about the projected milage for the rx400h.
It was supposed to be something like 67% better than the rx330.Well I picked up mine last monday 4/25.The initial mpg with approx. 130 miles appears to be about 21.5 -22.When my rx330 was averaging about 14-15 city/hwy than this seems to be correct.However it will improve as the breakin becomes more of a factor.Good luck to all and be patient like I am.

skyfish400h

Another thing to remember about using the odometer/pump readings to calculate your MPG is that you need to refill the tank with the exact same amount of fuel as was present when the odemeter read 000. For this to happen the first fill up would be shear coincidence.

To get accurate results this way, you will at least have to top of your tank and reset the trip odometer before you begin your experiment. Then I would recommend going back to the same pump (if possible) and using that pump's vapor sensor to trip or the pumping each time you fiill up. This reduces the amount of variation from pump to pump about when it shuts of on fillup. Then take an average of these results to get your combined MPG. Otherwise, using the built in sensors to watch the real time MPG is your best indicator.

BTW: Do not top off your tank by filling it to the little trap door (or some other visual reference) as this defetes the emmisions controls on the refueling operation, which is part of your overall SULEV rating.

headless

Krellu,

Thanks for the words on mileage...I thought my RX400h getting 23.4 mpg was a big problem...perhaps it's normal for the breakin period...

As far as patience....that's something I have to work on!

Headless

PF_Flyer

Since it's a topic that comes up a lot in topics about new models, here's a link to the Bluetooth Technology topic over on the Aftermarket & Accessories board.

PF Flyer
Host
News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles

stevedebi

My 2003 CR-V gets 22 MPG in town and 27 on the road. True, it doesn't have the luxury, but it does have comparable seating / cargo, and cost 1/2 what the 400h costs.

If Acura comes out with it's projected CR-V clone, it will be 15K less and get similar mileage...

I think people are beininng to realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Hybrid technology is best when paired with smaller, aerodynamic vehicles, that would most likely have achived over 35 MPG anyway with ICE only technology.

However, as a performance vehicle I suppose it makes sense .. so long as one doesn't buy it thinking it will be a high MPG vehicle (except compared to larger SUVs).

Now if only someone could get Toyota to see the light and put an I4 engine in those SUVs... that would be a package.

wwest

A boxer style miller cycle 4 cylinder of ~150 HP under the rear floor to drive the rear wheels and an ~75HP electric motor to drive the front.

A Subaru hybrid ??

With an A/C/heat pump compressor that can be engine driven or electric.

Most of the braking occurs at the front wheels....

gagrice

Now if only someone could get Toyota to see the light and put an I4 engine in those SUVs... that would be a package.

Does Toyota/Lexus sell the RX in Europe with their very fine D-CAT diesel engine. I wonder how much better mileage it would get in that configuration over the hybrid?

maxhonda99

Currently no Lexus products have diesels anywhere on earth. The first Lexus diesel will be in the upcoming redesigned IS in Europe only I believe, the IS220d.

As you may know current diesel technology will not be able to pass the upcoming 2007 emissions regulations, so no Lexus diesels here. I'm sure the next RX will get a diesel in Europe at least.

maxhonda99

"If Acura comes out with it's projected CR-V clone, it will be 15K less and get similar mileage... "

Latest word is the Acura RDX will be coming with a turbocharged 4-cylinder engine. Assuming it gains a few hundred pounds from the CR-Vs 3472, you're talking about the RDX weighing at about 3,700 pounds, which I think is quite realistic for a luxury branded SUV. The current CRV with the paltry 160bhp engine has EPA ratings of 22/27, which equates to a approx. 24 combined figure. You can assume from this the Acura RDX will move down a few ticks to about 22 combined.

"I think people are beininng to realize that there is no such thing as a free lunch. Hybrid technology is best when paired with smaller, aerodynamic vehicles, that would most likely have achived over 35 MPG anyway with ICE only technology."

Well duh. a traditional internal combustion engine is also at it's best when paired with a smaller, lighter more aerodynamic vehicle. What's your point??? Did you really think the RX400h would defy the laws of physics and get 40 or 50MPG?

As it is the RX330 at a bit over 4000lbs. has EPA ratings of 18/24. which combines for a 21 MPG. The RX400h increasing to a combined 28-29 is pretty impressive, which is a almost 50% increase.

"Now if only someone could get Toyota to see the light and put an I4 engine in those SUVs... that would be a package"

The reason they didn't put a 4-cylinder into a RX400h is because they were smart. They knew(and have known for years) that very few people shelling out $40K+ for a luxury branded product in the US will buy a 4-cylinder.

wwest

If luxury buyers would pay $40k+ for an RXxxxh using an I4 to produce V6 performance. Personally if the HL I4 came with a manual transmission I would be trading in my 2001 AWD RX300.

I know its hopeless to ask for an RX with I4 and manual. The BMW X3 is the closest one can get to that.

Do you really think those of us, or at least a majority of us, having bought the RX300 and RX330 regret that it doesn't have a V8??

maxhonda99

"Do you really think those of us, or at least a majority of us, having bought the RX300 and RX330 regret that it doesn't have a V8?? "

No, not the majority. But you know the RX's competition offers V8s, so having a V8 is obviously a big marketing tool. Notice the Mercedes ML, Jeep cherokee, Ford Explorer, Infiniti FX. The majority of ML's and FXs are 6-cylinder versions, but they do offer V8s even though the *majority* doesn't want them.

dmcmahon

I would pay $40k plus for a more efficient hybrid luxury vehicle. I'd rather see a small V6, though, since I4s can be a bit harsh. A 3.0 or even a 2.6 should be sufficient coupled with the hybrid synergy drive. It could still have around 200hp just from the gas engine, and perhaps around 300 peak hp with hybrid assist. The torque would still move the car with authority at low speeds. They could still offer the upcoming 3.5L V6 as an option for those who wanted performance over mileage.

The biggest thing they could do is get the weight down. If Acura can make a vehicle in this class come in the mid-3000s, why the heck does the RX 400h have to weight 4500+? A lower Cd would help, too; they'd have to lower it and make the wheels smaller. After all those changes, um, like, you'd have a wagon! I can dream...

dmcmahon

...why does the RX400h have a higher highway MPG rating than the 330 despite its higher power and higher weight? One answer is that CVT's increase efficiency by allowing the engine to run at lower speeds than practical with a geared transmission.

Interesting. If that's so, then why don't they put CVTs into conventional gas-powered cars? Is it that there wouldn't be enough torque to get the car moving at low speeds without the electric motor?

peralta

I have to correct you on this, Prius and escape hybrid have "atkinsonized" engines. Detuned is a loose term, optimized is more appropriate. Thanks.. Peace.

peralta

"why the heck does the RX 400h have to weight 4500+?"

BATTERY = Adds to the totel weight of RX400H. However, technology is changing fast and that can change. Battery size is shrinking and it may be replaced with big ultra capacitors which has higher efficiency on energy transfer.

markrogo

.... supposedly, my "second wave" vehicle will be available to me in about 3 weeks. Neptune Blue, very exciting!

It's apparently not easy to keep dealing with the hundreds of people on the waiting list at my dealer, but they are very helpful once they remember who they are talking to.

marmadmax

So far the news continues very disappointing. Yesterday I reset the MPG calculator that was reading about 26 mpg that was a combination of probably 75% highway miles. I though that was not too bad. Then I did some driving in the city environment. 19.3 Avg.!! (Climate system off) I then needed to go on the highway later in the day, and the MPG started to go back up again. By later in the day, the average was starting to get back up close to 24.5. I am beginning to think that the inverse city/highway mileage estimates are a bunch of bunk. That is not my experience to date.

maxhonda99

"The biggest thing they could do is get the weight down. If Acura can make a vehicle in this class come in the mid-3000s, why the heck does the RX 400h have to weight 4500+?"

Huh. The Acura RDX is going to be smaller than the RX400h for starters. Second, it's not going to have batteries!

As someone said above, the RX400h weighs 4500lbs. due to batteries!

cyclone4

What!!! Did you just take a bunch of 2-3 minute drives in the city? That is the only way you would have gotten 19.3 mpg. As I posted a few days ago, I have been getting at least in the low 30s mpg average in city driving and just about 27 on the highway. Even though some of you people think you are being cautious with the accelerator, I have a feeling that you are "roughing it" too much. It is very easy to get lousy gas mileage unless one is very conscious of the fine aspects of acceleration and anticipating some of the stops by coasting. But 19.3 in the city? Come on! Something is wrong. Do some more testing and try not to be too rough. Obviously, one cannot drive like an old grandmother these days, but on the other hand, if you want decent gas mileage you cannot drive like a teenager either. There is a happy medium. Pay attention to the consumption monitor and it will "teach" you how to get better gas mileage. Please continue to keep us posted.

headless

Cyclone,

I accelerate enough so the person behind me doesn't beep or hit me!

It seems like you're getting much better mileage than the rest of us! Driving styles different?? Perhaps..but, you shouldn't have to drive in an entirely different fashion to get good mileage...coasting on any car increases mpg...I am finding the V6 to be entirely inefficient...whether a product of weight or 'detuning', I hit the accelerator at all, and I'm under 10 mpg (instant reading) immediately...period..no exceptions..this drives down the average numbers...it's horrible!

Now, coasting on the highway at 70 mph may allow for more engine shut off...but from where I stand right now, this vehicle is more inefficient as was orginally stated...

I have to drive it more, I know...I'll keep checking in as I put more miles on the thing....other than mileage, the car is awesome! Great, comfortable ride!...love the gadgets...although highly disappointed, I will still lean on Lexus's reputation and not implode here!!!!

Headless